Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that!TSA_383 wrote...
So, just broke up with my girlfriend of 3 years. Today's sucked. Anything awesome happened here in the past couple of days?
Modifié par estebanus, 17 septembre 2012 - 02:44 .
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Guys...
About 'destroy' being a real option.
I think Leviathan answered this indirectly.
When Shepard asks how they could build an AI that betrayed them (after having seen their thrall races being 'betrayed' by AIs), the Leviathan says:
"You can not conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will."
This would most certainly apply to the Reapers. From an IT point of view, if Shepard chooses destroy, she would be the first organic ever to resist indoctrination. There's no precedent for someone resisting indoctrination, so the Reapers (in their villainous arrogance) would never expect Shepard to resist it either. They would expect her to bend to their will, like TIM and Saren.
The option is there, simply to not raise suspicion, but the Reapers just don't expect Shepard to resist succumbing to their will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for how IT could actually work out with what we have... here is a theory of mine. It's a mix of IT dream and WNT:
- Shepard is still in London. The first part of the Citadel, is all in Shep's head. The conversation with TIM/Anderson, all of this happens while Shep is unconscious on the ground. Shep is experiencing this as a dream. This would explain why (in the TIM confrontation) Harbinger's reaper horn can be heard in the background, only it's slowed down because time goes slower inside a dream, and we hear the reaper horn as a slow rattle. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, check the link in my signature). This first part being a dream, would explain why everything on the citadel looks like things from Shep's past.
- When Shep arrives in the 'decision chamber' and Starbinger says "Wake up", that's when Shepard wakes up in London. She's on hands and knees, still looking at the Reaper beam, the Mako, etc., only Harbinger is slightly altering how Shep perceives her surroundings. This is why the decision chamber looks so much like the location of the London beam.
- If Shep chooses synthesis, she runs over to the beam and becomes huskified / is processed to become the mind of a human Reaper, the end product of this cycle's harvest. (This would be fitting if we take into account that datapad we find on the FOB, right before the run to the beam, the one that talks about "people going into that place and coming out not the same any more")
- If Shep chooses control, she walks over to some Reaper device (perhaps the curvy/Reaperish device we see in the background during the breath scene) and submits herself to it, and turns into a Reaper agent.
- If Shep chooses destroy, she walks over to the right side of the beam and starts shooting at some object that she perceives as the tube. In reality, she destroys some kind of vital part of the beam generator, which causes the beam to overload and send a huge discharge of energy towards the Citadel, where it sets off the Crucible, which is simply a huge, synthetics-killing bomb. The destroy ending as we see it play out is actually what happens for real.
- How did the Citadel arms open for the Crucible to dock? Well, this is why Hacket says: "Holy ****, she did it. Someone made it to the Citadel." Who? David Anderson. And that's why his name is on the memorial wall in the destroy ending. Anderson did not survive the explosion on the citadel, but died as a hero.
- Breath scene happens when Shep wakes up in the rubble in London after blowing up the "beam".
No need for further ending DLC in this interpretation.
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Dont know if this has been bought up before, but something just struck me.
When Leviathan takes control of Shepards mind and appears as Ann Bryson, Shepard questions her appereance leading to the Leviathan quote about how the images her perceive are plucked from his memory.
But despite Shepard questioning Ann Brysons appereance he never questions the Catalyst taking the shape of the child even though that should be even more...well, questionable. He never acknowledges it or anything despite questioning when Ann Bryson appeared out of nowhere.
What was it again Matriach Benezia said about Indoctrination again: "The longer you stay aboard, the more Sarens will seems correct. You sit at his feet and smile as his words pour into you."
Dident Paul Grayson have a similar experience where he started nodding in regards to what the Reapers were telling him, agreeing without even realizing it. Seem to remember someone quoted that some time ago.
The point is people stop questioning the Reapers, which is a hallmark of Indoctrination, their will becomes correct in the eyes of its victims. Could Shepard be exibiting a bit of that when he dosent question the kid despite quetioning the person appearing in a similar situation?
Modifié par Eryri, 17 septembre 2012 - 03:46 .
Thanks, I'm okay I think but I'll keep it in mindestebanus wrote...
Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that!TSA_383 wrote...
So, just broke up with my girlfriend of 3 years. Today's sucked. Anything awesome happened here in the past couple of days?
Truly, I am. If you want to talk, you can always PM me
EDIT: Top!
masster blaster wrote...
OTTER MY BEST FRIEND, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
NICE AVATAR!smokingotter1 wrote...
masster blaster wrote...
OTTER MY BEST FRIEND, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
Good to see you again gone for a week and there are a billion new posts, sorry for late reply.
What exactly happens during the Anderson/TIM stand-off? Who shoots Anderson and TIM?DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Guys...
About 'destroy' being a real option.
I think Leviathan answered this indirectly.
When Shepard asks how they could build an AI that betrayed them (after having seen their thrall races being 'betrayed' by AIs), the Leviathan says:
"You can not conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will."
This would most certainly apply to the Reapers. From an IT point of view, if Shepard chooses destroy, she would be the first organic ever to resist indoctrination. There's no precedent for someone resisting indoctrination, so the Reapers (in their villainous arrogance) would never expect Shepard to resist it either. They would expect her to bend to their will, like TIM and Saren.
The option is there, simply to not raise suspicion, but the Reapers just don't expect Shepard to resist succumbing to their will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for how IT could actually work out with what we have... here is a theory of mine. It's a mix of IT dream and WNT:
- Shepard is still in London. The first part of the Citadel, is all in Shep's head. The conversation with TIM/Anderson, all of this happens while Shep is unconscious on the ground. Shep is experiencing this as a dream. This would explain why (in the TIM confrontation) Harbinger's reaper horn can be heard in the background, only it's slowed down because time goes slower inside a dream, and we hear the reaper horn as a slow rattle. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, check the link in my signature). This first part being a dream, would explain why everything on the citadel looks like things from Shep's past.
- When Shep arrives in the 'decision chamber' and Starbinger says "Wake up", that's when Shepard wakes up in London. She's on hands and knees, still looking at the Reaper beam, the Mako, etc., only Harbinger is slightly altering how Shep perceives her surroundings. This is why the decision chamber looks so much like the location of the London beam.
- If Shep chooses synthesis, she runs over to the beam and becomes huskified / is processed to become the mind of a human Reaper, the end product of this cycle's harvest. (This would be fitting if we take into account that datapad we find on the FOB, right before the run to the beam, the one that talks about "people going into that place and coming out not the same any more")
- If Shep chooses control, she walks over to some Reaper device (perhaps the curvy/Reaperish device we see in the background during the breath scene) and submits herself to it, and turns into a Reaper agent.
- If Shep chooses destroy, she walks over to the right side of the beam and starts shooting at some object that she perceives as the tube. In reality, she destroys some kind of vital part of the beam generator, which causes the beam to overload and send a huge discharge of energy towards the Citadel, where it sets off the Crucible, which is simply a huge, synthetics-killing bomb. The destroy ending as we see it play out is actually what happens for real.
- How did the Citadel arms open for the Crucible to dock? Well, this is why Hacket says: "Holy ****, she did it. Someone made it to the Citadel." Who? David Anderson. And that's why his name is on the memorial wall in the destroy ending. Anderson did not survive the explosion on the citadel, but died as a hero.
- Breath scene happens when Shep wakes up in the rubble in London after blowing up the "beam".
No need for further ending DLC in this interpretation.
.
Modifié par Restrider, 17 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .
Arashi08 wrote...
One thing I always wondered was if Shepard is in the process of indoctrination, and by the time of the endings may be teetering on the edge of total control, if Shepard does indeed pick Destroy then does Shepard also destroy indoctrination as well as the Reapers. I always thought if you destryed a Reaper's core you turn off its signal, but the piece of Sovereign may prove otherwise, or at the very least it may indicate that no amount of Reaper tech, no matter how small, is safe as long as the Reapers exist and are around in the galaxy. if Destropy is picked do you think indoctrination will be destroyed as well?
Restrider wrote...
What exactly happens during the Anderson/TIM stand-off? Who shoots Anderson and TIM?DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Guys...
About 'destroy' being a real option.
I think Leviathan answered this indirectly.
When Shepard asks how they could build an AI that betrayed them (after having seen their thrall races being 'betrayed' by AIs), the Leviathan says:
"You can not conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will."
This would most certainly apply to the Reapers. From an IT point of view, if Shepard chooses destroy, she would be the first organic ever to resist indoctrination. There's no precedent for someone resisting indoctrination, so the Reapers (in their villainous arrogance) would never expect Shepard to resist it either. They would expect her to bend to their will, like TIM and Saren.
The option is there, simply to not raise suspicion, but the Reapers just don't expect Shepard to resist succumbing to their will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for how IT could actually work out with what we have... here is a theory of mine. It's a mix of IT dream and WNT:
- Shepard is still in London. The first part of the Citadel, is all in Shep's head. The conversation with TIM/Anderson, all of this happens while Shep is unconscious on the ground. Shep is experiencing this as a dream. This would explain why (in the TIM confrontation) Harbinger's reaper horn can be heard in the background, only it's slowed down because time goes slower inside a dream, and we hear the reaper horn as a slow rattle. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, check the link in my signature). This first part being a dream, would explain why everything on the citadel looks like things from Shep's past.
- When Shep arrives in the 'decision chamber' and Starbinger says "Wake up", that's when Shepard wakes up in London. She's on hands and knees, still looking at the Reaper beam, the Mako, etc., only Harbinger is slightly altering how Shep perceives her surroundings. This is why the decision chamber looks so much like the location of the London beam.
- If Shep chooses synthesis, she runs over to the beam and becomes huskified / is processed to become the mind of a human Reaper, the end product of this cycle's harvest. (This would be fitting if we take into account that datapad we find on the FOB, right before the run to the beam, the one that talks about "people going into that place and coming out not the same any more")
- If Shep chooses control, she walks over to some Reaper device (perhaps the curvy/Reaperish device we see in the background during the breath scene) and submits herself to it, and turns into a Reaper agent.
- If Shep chooses destroy, she walks over to the right side of the beam and starts shooting at some object that she perceives as the tube. In reality, she destroys some kind of vital part of the beam generator, which causes the beam to overload and send a huge discharge of energy towards the Citadel, where it sets off the Crucible, which is simply a huge, synthetics-killing bomb. The destroy ending as we see it play out is actually what happens for real.
- How did the Citadel arms open for the Crucible to dock? Well, this is why Hacket says: "Holy ****, she did it. Someone made it to the Citadel." Who? David Anderson. And that's why his name is on the memorial wall in the destroy ending. Anderson did not survive the explosion on the citadel, but died as a hero.
- Breath scene happens when Shep wakes up in the rubble in London after blowing up the "beam".
No need for further ending DLC in this interpretation.
The rest seems plausible though. Alas I would like to have a ME4 post breathe scene and end the reaper wars with all assets in action and all decisions mattering (a lot). But that's me having dreams
You're just too dense to step out of your IT shoes for one minute to ponder some of the nonsense I adressed. Funny thing is that you always post after people, Trolls or ITers or others, reacting to them, and never give input from yourself except the IT common places. You were "hurt" because you love robots and I told you I don't care, it's a videogame, I'm only trying to make sense out of it, but you know better, right?RavenEyry wrote...
No it sucks here too because Iconoclaste went completely insane.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 septembre 2012 - 05:46 .
1. I never said I love robots.Iconoclaste wrote...
You're just too dense to step out of your IT shoes for one minute to ponder some of the nonsense I adressed. Funny thing is that you always post after people, Trolls or ITers or others, reacting to them, and never give input from yourself except the IT common places. You were "hurt" because you love robots and I told you I don't care, it's a videogame, I'm only trying to make sense out of it, but you know better, right?
You should already know better than what you're doing right now. I'm not going to repeat myself forever just because you can't figure out things by yourself. Do you want a "medal" for your "past observations"? You don't have to say you love robots to make it apparent. Feel free to run in circles if you want, but don't expect me to applaud you.RavenEyry wrote...
1. I never said I love robots.
2. I've mde plenty of observations, just because you haven't seen any doesn't justify multiple personal attacks on me.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 septembre 2012 - 06:05 .
Modifié par Dendio1, 17 septembre 2012 - 06:32 .
Iconoclaste wrote...
You should already know better than what you're doing right now. I'm not going to repeat myself forever just because you can't figure out things by yourself. Do you want a "medal" for your "past observations"? You don't have to say you love robots to make it apparent. Feel free to run in circles if you want, but don't expect me to applaud you.RavenEyry wrote...
1. I never said I love robots.
2. I've mde plenty of observations, just because you haven't seen any doesn't justify multiple personal attacks on me.
R.b.ts, yeah... I read a debate a few days ago about this "AI are sentient, therefore their value equals that of organics" thing. It went far enough to show that some people can't get(h) out of their wounded player mindset to make abstract comments, instead they show their strong feelings that reveal they don't make proper distinction between the realm of "Virtual world" and reality.demersel wrote...
Don't use the "R" word. It is offencive to them.
Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 septembre 2012 - 06:46 .
So what would happen if TIM shots Shepard (happened to me at one of my first playthroughs, lol)? Would Shepard directly fall to indoctrination or would he just die in the rubble?DoomsdayDevice wrote...
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
- Shepard is still in London. The first part of the Citadel, is all in Shep's head. The conversation with TIM/Anderson, all of this happens while Shep is unconscious on the ground. Shep is experiencing this as a dream. This would explain why (in the TIM confrontation) Harbinger's reaper horn can be heard in the background, only it's slowed down because time goes slower inside a dream, and we hear the reaper horn as a slow rattle. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, check the link in my signature). This first part being a dream, would explain why everything on the citadel looks like things from Shep's past.
The Anderson / TIM confrontation is a dream.
Iconoclaste wrote...
R.b.ts, yeah... I read a debate a few days ago about this "AI are sentient, therefore their value equals that of organics" thing. It went far enough to show that some people can't get(h) out of their wounded player mindset to make abstract comments, instead they show their strong feelings that reveal they don't make proper distinction between the realm of "Virtual world" and reality.demersel wrote...
Don't use the "R" word. It is offencive to them.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that all the rewritten neural pathways caused by indoctrination will be reversed, but without the Reapers' "voices" those fully indoctrinated will likely just become husks, as Vigil stated. I was just wondering if people who aren't fully indoctrinated, like Shepard according to IT, will continue to deteriorate or not if the Reapers are destroyed, as well as their source of indoctrination, or at least the direction behind it.Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
Arashi08 wrote...
One thing I always wondered was if Shepard is in the process of indoctrination, and by the time of the endings may be teetering on the edge of total control, if Shepard does indeed pick Destroy then does Shepard also destroy indoctrination as well as the Reapers. I always thought if you destryed a Reaper's core you turn off its signal, but the piece of Sovereign may prove otherwise, or at the very least it may indicate that no amount of Reaper tech, no matter how small, is safe as long as the Reapers exist and are around in the galaxy. if Destropy is picked do you think indoctrination will be destroyed as well?
No, I dont. Maybe destroying the Reapers completely will lower its effect, but I dont think people who are Indoctrinated will suddenly snap back to what they were before, it seems to complete for something so convenient to happen.
Yes that would mean Shepard even after Destroy would still be vulnerable and even after the Reaper threat ends he might still have some lasting sideffects.
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