80611 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

estebanus wrote...

Well, I'm going to bed now. Goodbye!

Gnight!

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

I'll answer paxx's question with another: is submission preferable to extinction? Honestly, that's the question that's at the core of the endings. In Control, even if you don't Assume Direct Control of the geth, it looks like Shreaper uses the Reapers to force the geth into line. In Synthesis, you submit to the Catalyst's beliefs by choosing the choice he wants most. In Destroy, you do what you came to do. You don't submit to the Catalyst, and you don't force others to submit to you. Of course, there's also Refuse, but it's still the weirdest of the bunch, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgment on it until we see what BioWare does with dlc.

In my Paragade (more Paragon though) Control ending, Shepard doesn't force anyone to do anything. He simply states he'll guide them, protect them and help them rebuild after the war. It's more about guarding the benefits of life and advising organics and synthetics alike than enslaving them and imposing his will. Although, the Reapers have to obey him at all times from now on. I know you could say that power corrupts but maybe this time... lol

[Rifneno]

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

[Bill Casey]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I'll answer paxx's question with another: is submission preferable to extinction? Honestly, that's the question that's at the core of the endings. In Control, even if you don't Assume Direct Control of the geth, it looks like Shreaper uses the Reapers to force the geth into line. In Synthesis, you submit to the Catalyst's beliefs by choosing the choice he wants most. In Destroy, you do what you came to do. You don't submit to the Catalyst, and you don't force others to submit to you. Of course, there's also Refuse, but it's still the weirdest of the bunch, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgment on it until we see what BioWare does with dlc.

In my Paragade (more Paragon though) Control ending, Shepard doesn't force anyone to do anything. He simply states he'll guide them, protect them and help them rebuild after the war. It's more about guarding the benefits of life and advising organics and synthetics alike than enslaving them and imposing his will. Although, the Reapers have to obey him at all times from now on. I know you could say that power corrupts but maybe this time... lol

Shepard is dead...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[paxxton]

Bill Casey wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I'll answer paxx's question with another: is submission preferable to extinction? Honestly, that's the question that's at the core of the endings. In Control, even if you don't Assume Direct Control of the geth, it looks like Shreaper uses the Reapers to force the geth into line. In Synthesis, you submit to the Catalyst's beliefs by choosing the choice he wants most. In Destroy, you do what you came to do. You don't submit to the Catalyst, and you don't force others to submit to you. Of course, there's also Refuse, but it's still the weirdest of the bunch, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgment on it until we see what BioWare does with dlc.

In my Paragade (more Paragon though) Control ending, Shepard doesn't force anyone to do anything. He simply states he'll guide them, protect them and help them rebuild after the war. It's more about guarding the benefits of life and advising organics and synthetics alike than enslaving them and imposing his will. Although, the Reapers have to obey him at all times from now on. I know you could say that power corrupts but maybe this time... lol

Shepard is dead...

Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

[Gwyphon]

paxxton wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I'll answer paxx's question with another: is submission preferable to extinction? Honestly, that's the question that's at the core of the endings. In Control, even if you don't Assume Direct Control of the geth, it looks like Shreaper uses the Reapers to force the geth into line. In Synthesis, you submit to the Catalyst's beliefs by choosing the choice he wants most. In Destroy, you do what you came to do. You don't submit to the Catalyst, and you don't force others to submit to you. Of course, there's also Refuse, but it's still the weirdest of the bunch, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgment on it until we see what BioWare does with dlc.

In my Paragade (more Paragon though) Control ending, Shepard doesn't force anyone to do anything. He simply states he'll guide them, protect them and help them rebuild after the war. It's more about guarding the benefits of life and advising organics and synthetics alike than enslaving them and imposing his will. Although, the Reapers have to obey him at all times from now on. I know you could say that power corrupts but maybe this time... lol

Shepard is dead...

Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

One of the most prominent themes in the series is fighting for the right to choose your own future. Control just kind of spits in the face of that, as does synthesis to a lesser extent.

Control is pretty much a military policed universe, run by one man/woman. Doesn't seem like freedom to me

Modifié par Gwyphon, 17 septembre 2012 - 10:49 .

[Andromidius]

paxxton wrote...
Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

After Control?  Yeah, that's not Shepard.

Shepard is dead.  Very dead.

[demersel]

Bill Casey wrote...

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brainwashing1.htm

Breaking down the self

"Maybe I'm just a VI who thinks he's Commander Shepard"

• Assault on identity: You are not
  who you think you are. This is a systematic attack on a target's sense
  of self (also called his identity or ego) and his core belief system.
  The agent denies everything that makes the target who he is: "You are
  not a soldier." "You are not a man." "You are not defending freedom."
  The target is under constant attack for days, weeks or months, to the
  point that he becomes exhausted, confused and disoriented. In this
  state, his beliefs seem less solid.

"You can't help me"

• Guilt: You are bad. While
  the identity crisis is setting in, the agent is simultaneously creating
  an overwhelming sense of guilt in the target. He repeatedly and
  mercilessly attacks the subject for any "sin" the target has committed,
  large or small. He may criticize the target for everything from the
  "evilness" of his beliefs to the way he eats too slowly. The target
  begins to feel a general sense of shame, that everything he does is
  wrong.

"Because... I need you to believe."

• Self-betrayal: Agree with me that you are bad. Once the
  subject is disoriented and drowning in guilt, the agent forces him
  (either with the threat of physical harm or of continuance of the mental
  attack) to denounce his family, friends and peers who share the same
  "wrong" belief system that he holds. This betrayal of his own beliefs
  and of people he feels a sense of loyalty to increases the shame and
  loss of identity the target is already experiencing.

"Wake Up"

• Breaking point: Who am I, where am I and what am I supposed to do?
  With his identity in crisis, experiencing deep shame and having
  betrayed what he has always believed in, the target may undergo what in
  the lay community is referred to as a "nervous breakdown." In
  psychology, "nervous breakdown" is really just a collection of severe
  symptoms that can indicate any number of psychological disturbances. It
  may involve uncontrollable sobbing, deep depression and general
  disorientation. The target may have lost his grip on reality and have
  the feeling of being completely lost and alone. When
  the target reaches his breaking point, his sense of self is pretty much
  up for grabs -- he has no clear understanding of who he is or what is
  happening to him. At this point, the agent sets up the temptation to
  convert to another belief system that will save the target from his
  misery.

"Why are you telling me this? Why help me?"

• Leniency: I can help you. With ­the target in a state of crisis, the
  agent offers some small kindness or reprieve from the abuse. He may
  offer the target a drink of water, or take a moment to ask the target
  what he misses about home. In a state of breakdown resulting from an
  endless psychological attack, the small kindness seems huge, and the
  target may experience a sense of relief and gratitude completely out of
  proportion to the offering, as if the agent has saved his life.

"So... the Illusive Man was right after all"

• Compulsion
  to confession: You can help yourself.For the first time in the
  brainwashing process, the target is faced with the contrast between the
  guilt and pain of identity assault and the sudden relief of leniency.
  The target may feel a desire to reciprocate the kindness offered to him,
  and at this point, the agent may present the possibility of confession
  as a means to relieving guilt and pain.

"The created will always rebel against the creator"

• Channeling of guilt:
  This is why you're in pain. After weeks or months of assault, confusion,
  breakdown and moments of leniency, the target's guilt has lost all
  meaning -- he's not sure what he has done wrong, he just knows he is
  wrong. This creates something of a blank slate that lets the agent fill
  in the blanks: He can attach that guilt, that sense of "wrongness," to
  whatever he wants. The agent attaches the target's guilt to the belief
  system the agent is trying to replace. The target comes to believe it is
  his belief system that is the cause of his shame. The contrast between
  old and new has been established: The old belief system is associated
  with psychological (and usually physical) agony; and the new belief
  system is associated with the possibility of escaping that agony.

"It is the ideal solution"

• Releasing of guilt: It's not me; it's my beliefs.The
  embattled target is relieved to learn there is an external cause of his
  wrongness, that it is not he himself that is inescapably bad -- this
  means he can escape his wrongness by escaping the wrong belief system.
  All he has to do is denounce the people and institutions associated with
  that belief system, and he won't be in pain anymore. The target has the
  power to release himself from wrongness by confessing to acts
  associated with his old belief system. With his full
  confessions, the target has completed his psychological rejection of his
  former identity. It is now up to the agent to offer the target a new
  one.

   
[*]    Bravo!

[Restrider]

Bill Casey rocks it again.
In serious:
Wouldn't it be just awesome, if in the end -we- the player got indoctrinated? Furthermore everyone would learn something about themselves.
How would you react in such a situation?
Would you shift your goals or stick to them?
Would you believe everything that is presented to you?
Can you trust yourself or what you perceive?
If this turns out to be the case, ME 3 would truly have a magnificent ending (though I'd like to see more war assets in action and more choices counting ^^)!
Edit: *in Asari Adept voice* : "I'M OUT....!"

Modifié par Restrider, 17 septembre 2012 - 10:57 .

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

Hides pills "Huh, what?"

It would have been awesome if you were here last night btw

[paxxton]

Andromidius wrote...

paxxton wrote...
Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

After Control?  Yeah, that's not Shepard.

Shepard is dead.  Very dead.

Ok, seriously though, not exactly the blood and flesh version but there's some resemblance. Shepyst is based on Shepard.

[spotlessvoid]

Control: Shepard as the philosopher king.

Lol no

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

Hides pills "Huh, what?"

It would have been awesome if you were here last night btw

Sorry, I try to keep up to date on the thread... then when there's like 20 pages to read I say screw it and do something else.  Then there's 30, and **** that!  The problem snowballs until I show up a week later like an amnesia patient.  Speaking of which, what happened last night?

[spotlessvoid]

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

paxxton wrote...
Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

After Control?  Yeah, that's not Shepard.

Shepard is dead.  Very dead.

Ok, seriously though, not exactly the blood and flesh version but there's some resemblance. Shepyst is based on Shepard.

I like Shreaper better

[paxxton]

Gwyphon wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I'll answer paxx's question with another: is submission preferable to extinction? Honestly, that's the question that's at the core of the endings. In Control, even if you don't Assume Direct Control of the geth, it looks like Shreaper uses the Reapers to force the geth into line. In Synthesis, you submit to the Catalyst's beliefs by choosing the choice he wants most. In Destroy, you do what you came to do. You don't submit to the Catalyst, and you don't force others to submit to you. Of course, there's also Refuse, but it's still the weirdest of the bunch, if you ask me. I'll reserve judgment on it until we see what BioWare does with dlc.

In my Paragade (more Paragon though) Control ending, Shepard doesn't force anyone to do anything. He simply states he'll guide them, protect them and help them rebuild after the war. It's more about guarding the benefits of life and advising organics and synthetics alike than enslaving them and imposing his will. Although, the Reapers have to obey him at all times from now on. I know you could say that power corrupts but maybe this time... lol

Shepard is dead...

Wha? But I saw him with my own eyes. Alive.

One of the most prominent themes in the series is fighting for the right to choose your own future. Control just kind of spits in the face of that, as does synthesis to a lesser extent.

Control is pretty much a military policed universe, run by one man/woman. Doesn't seem like freedom to me

Thou of little faith. Believe in Shepyst.

[spotlessvoid]

Rifneno wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

Hides pills "Huh, what?"

It would have been awesome if you were here last night btw

Sorry, I try to keep up to date on the thread... then when there's like 20 pages to read I say screw it and do something else.  Then there's 30, and **** that!  The problem snowballs until I show up a week later like an amnesia patient.  Speaking of which, what happened last night?

That special kind of troll who doesnt think he's a troll. I call it the Flaming victim Troll. 

"You are idiots:discuss"
followed by "why cant ITers discuss stuff"

[Rifneno]

I thought it was Shepbinger?

[HellishFiend]

It really doesnt matter if you think I'm crazy or not. What you choose to believe at this point is not going to alter the truth. MP is a simulator. 

The thread, for those interested in reading it:
http://social.biowar...ndex/14143533/1 

Also, CW Episode 2 is currently scheduled for release on the 28th, the last Friday of the month. I should have a trailer for you guys this coming Friday, one week before it comes out. 

Episode 1 for any who havent seen it yet.

[Rifneno]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

Hides pills "Huh, what?"

It would have been awesome if you were here last night btw

Sorry, I try to keep up to date on the thread... then when there's like 20 pages to read I say screw it and do something else.  Then there's 30, and **** that!  The problem snowballs until I show up a week later like an amnesia patient.  Speaking of which, what happened last night?

That special kind of troll who doesnt think he's a troll. I call it the Flaming victim Troll. 

"You are idiots:discuss"
followed by "why cant ITers discuss stuff"

Oh God, I love the victim card trolls.  They're hilarious.  Even moreso because most of them are totally for real.

[paxxton]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

Hides pills "Huh, what?"

It would have been awesome if you were here last night btw

This is it:
http://social.biowar...ndex/14143533/1

EDIT:

Modifié par paxxton, 17 septembre 2012 - 11:08 .

[spotlessvoid]

HellishFiend wrote...

It really doesnt matter if you think I'm crazy or not. What you choose to believe at this point is not going to alter the truth. MP is a simulator. 

The thread, for those interested in reading it:
http://social.biowar...ndex/14143533/1 

Also, CW Episode 2 is currently scheduled for release on the 28th, the last Friday of the month. I should have a trailer for you guys this coming Friday, one week before it comes out. 

Episode 1 for any who havent seen it yet.

100 to 1 says there is a does this prove it meme page one. Ok, clicking link

[paxxton]

spotlessvoid wrote...

I like Shreaper better

LOL. That's a good one too. Shepyst goes by many names.

[spotlessvoid]

Strawhatmoose is our winner!

Hellish, maybe if you told us about the sp thing you reference, I could see your vision of mp better. Or is that what cw2 is about?

[Rifneno]

Considering the amount of bug fixes and general support MP has gotten, I think it's fair to say that there's no big reveal coming... BW just doesn't give a vorcha's ass. If they had made it so you could play a vanguard off host within the first half a year of noticing the bug, if SMG ULM worked, if some genius in balancing didn't think the eagle was totally fine the way it is, ect. ect. ect., then I might be inclined to believe there's some big reveal coming and that's why we've gotten the Pinnacle Station-esque 3 faction horde mode only. But I'm pretty sure they simply don't care.

[TSA_383]

HellishFiend wrote...

It really doesnt matter if you think I'm crazy or not. What you choose to believe at this point is not going to alter the truth. MP is a simulator. 

The thread, for those interested in reading it:
http://social.biowar...ndex/14143533/1 

Also, CW Episode 2 is currently scheduled for release on the 28th, the last Friday of the month. I should have a trailer for you guys this coming Friday, one week before it comes out. 

Episode 1 for any who havent seen it yet.

Do you need help on music/SFX/anything remotely audio related? I'd love to be involved.

Rifneno wrote...

Okay, HellishFiend just popped up in the MP forums and said that he thinks MP is a simulator. I want to know who put what in his drink.

 
Me, LSD, ~200 micrograms.

Dwailing wrote...

I agree with everyone. That truly is a fine post Bill. And before anyone says, "Oh, BioWare's writers aren't smart enough to come up with that," remember that Mac Walters has a degree in psychology. He would know this, most likely.

 
Yup. This'd be exactly the sort of thing a psychologist writing a game in which brainwashing (or some equivalent) is a central theme would want to try.

FellishBeast wrote...

Ace7 wrote...

What's going to happen to this community if IT is ever confirmed? Kind of a strange prospect...

Anyway's was just dropping by. Im off again....Adios!! Happy Speculating guys and gals!

I say we all get drunk and revel in our victory. Maybe we should do that either way, lmao.

 
If anyone here is anywhere near Glasgow, I vote we meet and get horribly, horribly wasted.
Also, I propose that there should be cake.

estebanus wrote...

Ace7 wrote...

What's going to happen to this community if IT is ever confirmed? Kind of a strange prospect

Everyone would most likely disband after a few days, now that there'd be nothing to keep them together anymore. 

... I miss Byne.

 
I hope not, I quite like some of you nutters. At least I have most of you on origin now - but steam's the way of the future. (For anyone who wants to add me: SteamID:shadownet383).

Also, has there been much discussion about the SP and MP teasers? All those people that said a failed MP operation wouldn't immediately lead to DLC... PAH!