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[RavenEyry]

RavenEyry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers perceive you as a threat.

And thus are going to let you choose their fate without any kind of funny business.

Quoting myself because  just thought how it's interesting that they percieve the one person who can make their dream goal of synthesis happen a threat.

[BleedingUranium]

RavenEyry wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers perceive you as a threat.

And thus are going to let you choose their fate without any kind of funny business.

Quoting myself because  just thought how it's interesting that they percieve the one person who can make their dream goal of synthesis happen a threat.

Mmhmm, very interesting

I'm off to sleep now, night all

[estebanus]

Hey there, guys and ladies! How's it going?

[Ace7]

BleedingUranium wrote...

*(Shifty eyes) We have watched its construction before. It has never been completed. Those who have tried still fell victim to the harvest. Its outcome is unknown. *The Crucible's totally legit! You can trust me, I'm a Leviathan!*

This has to be one of the most interesting lines in that conversation. If the Leviathans are indeed "watching" everything, including the crucibles construction, it should know exactly what the crucible is being built for. Which begs the question... Is the crucible a Leviathan design and it is Lying or is it Reaper design and genuinely doesn't know? 

I have a strange feeling that it is a Reaper "influenced" design, and with every cycle it is perfected a little bit more until it is finished under the guidance of Shepard, the "super being". That would tie in with Leviathan not knowing what it is and why they are joining the fight. 

The crucible is the reapers master plan. It's the only way the 'crucible convieniently joining with the citadel' makes any sense.

Modifié par Ace7, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[Hrothdane]

estebanus wrote...

Hey there, guys and ladies! How's it going?

Good evening!

Was playing World of Warcraft, now I'm reading Nietzsche and listening to danish metal.

EDIT: I was actually thinking of how Nietzsche's philosophy relates to elements of the IT.

Modifié par Hrothdane, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[estebanus]

Hrothdane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Hey there, guys and ladies! How's it going?

Good evening!

Was playing World of Warcraft, now I'm reading Nietzsche and listening to danish metal.

Ah yes, nihilism. I once did a report on Nietzsche back when I was in High school. It ended up in the local newspaper a few days later.

I've just been exercising a bit, you know, like running, training in close quarters combat, etc. I'm gonna be back on duty in 2 weeks, so I better get started with getting in shape again!

Modifié par estebanus, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Andromidius]

Still boggles my mind how people who utterly hate IT often show little sign of understanding even the basics of what it actually is. And have zero knowledge of even Bioware's stance on it, thinking they 'debunked' it when really it was said outright to be 'just as valid as any other interpretation'.

People make me so angry I'm sick.

[lex0r11]

estebanus wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Hey there, guys and ladies! How's it going?

Good evening!

Was playing World of Warcraft, now I'm reading Nietzsche and listening to danish metal.

Ah yes, nihilism. I once did a report on Nietzsche back when I was in High school. It ended up in the local newspaper a few days later.

I've just been exercising a bit, you know, like running, training in close quarters combat, etc. I'm gonna be back on duty in 2 weeks, so I better get started with getting in shape again!

Little soft around the edges, eh?

[estebanus]

lex0r11 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Hrothdane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Hey there, guys and ladies! How's it going?

Good evening!

Was playing World of Warcraft, now I'm reading Nietzsche and listening to danish metal.

Ah yes, nihilism. I once did a report on Nietzsche back when I was in High school. It ended up in the local newspaper a few days later.

I've just been exercising a bit, you know, like running, training in close quarters combat, etc. I'm gonna be back on duty in 2 weeks, so I better get started with getting in shape again!

Little soft around the edges, eh?

Ha! If only I'd have a CO even half as awesome as Anderson...

[Andromidius]

I really need to get in shape too. Slowly but surely, since I have a few health issues. But eventually it'll help - so long as I don't push it.

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...
Ha! If only I'd have a CO even half as awesome as Anderson...

As long as they aren't more like TIM.

[estebanus]

Andromidius wrote...

I really need to get in shape too. Slowly but surely, since I have a few health issues. But eventually it'll help - so long as I don't push it.

That's the right attitude! Take it at your own pace!

[Andromidius]

I half wish I'd signed up as a soldier as a teenager, but being short sighted and asthmatic isn't the best start. Not to mention I have a temper.

But yeah, walks in the park and occasional paintballing will help.

[estebanus]

Andromidius wrote...

I half wish I'd signed up as a soldier as a teenager, but being short sighted and asthmatic isn't the best start. Not to mention I have a temper.

But yeah, walks in the park and occasional paintballing will help.

I don't know about your country's military, but I don't think people with asthma are allowed to sign up as soldiers. They aren't in Denmark, at least. As for short-sightedness... Well, I think the navy hires people even if they're short-sighted.

[Hrothdane]

estebanus wrote...

Ah yes, nihilism. I once did a report on Nietzsche back when I was in High school. It ended up in the local newspaper a few days later.

I've just been exercising a bit, you know, like running, training in close quarters combat, etc. I'm gonna be back on duty in 2 weeks, so I better get started with getting in shape again!

Glad to hear you are getting better. I could never be a soldier as I like the personality and discipline for it, but I have great respect for those that do. 

I don't want to drive the thread off-topic again, but I feel compelled to correct your use of the term "nihlism" in regards to Nietzsche. The man didn't believe in objective truth, but he was no nihilist. Nihilists believe that because nothing has objective and timeless worth, nothing has value. Nietzsche clearly believes that while objective and timeless truth does not exist, we should still assign value to things. He hated nihilism, and even described Christianity as a kind of nihilism, as he said it removed value from the physical and placed it on some non-existent immaterial world.

[Andromidius]

Well I'd not pass the physical! Plus I'm 26 so a little old to join up even if I was able.

So unlike my dad, he's ex Army and as tough as an old pair of boots. And about as pretty.

[estebanus]

Hrothdane wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Ah yes, nihilism. I once did a report on Nietzsche back when I was in High school. It ended up in the local newspaper a few days later.

I've just been exercising a bit, you know, like running, training in close quarters combat, etc. I'm gonna be back on duty in 2 weeks, so I better get started with getting in shape again!

Glad to hear you are getting better. I could never be a soldier as I like the personality and discipline for it, but I have great respect for those that do. 

I don't want to drive the thread off-topic again, but I feel compelled to correct your use of the term "nihlism" in regards to Nietzsche. The man didn't believe in objective truth, but he was no nihilist. Nihilists believe that because nothing has objective and timeless worth, nothing has value. Nietzsche clearly believes that while objective and timeless truth does not exist, we should still assign value to things. He hated nihilism, and even described Christianity as a kind of nihilism, as he said it removed value from the physical and placed it on some non-existent immaterial world.

I stand corrected, then. I am however pretty sure that it was him who ran down the streets of Turin(?) yelling that god is dead.

Also, thanks for your concern! Yeah, being a soldier really isn't for everybody. You have to have more in you than just wanting to hold a gun.

Modifié par estebanus, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[Andromidius]

Heh, thinking about it. When I was younger I wanted to be a Fireman as well. Again with the Asthma!

Its probably why I'm drawn to heroic storytelling. Lets me live the fantasy for a while.

[Gwyphon]

I've actually applied for a job in military r&d. Little intimidating when you have to be sworn to secrecy and have an entire family background check before the first interview...

[estebanus]

Gwyphon wrote...

I've actually applied for a job in military r&d. Little intimidating when you have to be sworn to secrecy and have an entire family background check before the first interview...

Yeah, I can see how that could seem a little intimidating. My dad's side of the family has however always been tightly intertwined with the military, way back before WWI, as a matter of fact, so it was a little easier for me

[Leonia]

Hrothdane wrote...

Glad to hear you are getting better. I could never be a soldier as I like the personality and discipline for it, but I have great respect for those that do. 

I don't want to drive the thread off-topic again, but I feel compelled to correct your use of the term "nihlism" in regards to Nietzsche. The man didn't believe in objective truth, but he was no nihilist. Nihilists believe that because nothing has objective and timeless worth, nothing has value. Nietzsche clearly believes that while objective and timeless truth does not exist, we should still assign value to things. He hated nihilism, and even described Christianity as a kind of nihilism, as he said it removed value from the physical and placed it on some non-existent immaterial world.

If you can find them, you should really check out the Xenosaga games. Lots of Nietszche themes going on in them and lots of similarities to the ME3 ending as well (except there's no choice at the end).

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Andromidius wrote...

Heh, thinking about it. When I was younger I wanted to be a Fireman as well. Again with the Asthma!

Its probably why I'm drawn to heroic storytelling. Lets me live the fantasy for a while.

That is also my draw in games and stories, letting me live the fantasy, but I am taking it one step further.

I dont just want to read, watch or play the epic story, I want to write and design it. This is reflected in my hobby which is writing Fantasy and some Sci-fi stories and I am currenly studying Interactive and Experience Technology on SDU, Sourthern Danish University. My goal is too move tahat into some Game Design.

In many ways this entire discussion about IT and Mass Effect is a lesson for the future to me, examples of what to do and what not.

[Hrothdane]

@estabanusister

I don't know about that, but he did go mad later in life, so you are probably right. He had a very depressing life: shunned for not taking up the family profession and becoming a priest (lol), falling in love and getting his proposal shot down, feeling forced to break ties with his best friend--Wagner--because of his raging anti-semitism, and being left in the care of his sister that would go on to become a **** and re-edit his works to conform to her views.

The "God is dead" quote is from one of his books, and is actually followed by "God remains dead. And we have killed him." Everyone always forgets that second part. While it was intended as hyperbole and aphorism in his book (like everything he wrote), I can't speak to what he meant while running through the streets shouting in Turin


As for how his writing relates to IT, I was actually thinking of one of his more famous quotes:

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the
process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into
an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."


I think that this idea is at the heart of not just Mass Effect 3, but the entire series. While you can literally apply the quote to the Reapers, as those who fight them are often literally transformed into monsters, the common interpretation of the quote's original means refers to the descent into extremism.

This more figurative transformation into a monster equates well with the process of indoctrination, as it inevitably leads the victims to extremist positions. Saren and TIM are the strongest examples of this, and they both tellingly have mechanical components that become more and more developed as they become more and more extreme in their methods and ideals. With the Reaper tech implanted in them, they have literally started to become the monsters that they have fought. We also see it in more minor characters like Benezia. She sought to save Saren from himself, to do battle with him in a more intellectual way, but found herself changed into his servent by the process of indoctrination.

Consider for a moment how Shepard becomes a Reaper intelligence when he/she chooses Control, literally becoming the monster that he/she had been fighting. Consider how Synthesis makes people more like Reapers and their minions.

Another important idea from Nietzsche is one that is often forgotten, and that is the antithesis of the Ubermensch (over-person), der letzte Mensch (the Last Person). The society of the Last Person is one of no conflict with no more distinctions between anyone. The Last People claim to have found the pinnacle of happiness and contentment, but only because they no longer dream of the future and would rather be comfortable and safe than fight for their passions and dreams. The Last People never take risks.

Is it just me, or does that sound like Synthesis?

[Gwyphon]

estebanus wrote...

Gwyphon wrote...

I've actually applied for a job in military r&d. Little intimidating when you have to be sworn to secrecy and have an entire family background check before the first interview...

Yeah, I can see how that could seem a little intimidating. My dad's side of the family has however always been tightly intertwined with the military, way back before WWI, as a matter of fact, so it was a little easier for me

The main problem for me is that they can't actually tell me what the hell the job is until I get it
But hell, surely it can't be that boring...

Anyway slightly more ontopic, I'm really excited for the Omega DLC. If it has some sort of interaction with the Leviathan DLC it could mean big things in the future (puzzle all falling into place for instance)

[Whiysper]

Another thing on picking Bryson to do most of the talking - she's the non-threatening face. Note that as she explains their purposes and actions, she gives you very neutral phrasings, in a very calm way. Much like the non-threatening kid introducing you to the Reaper's motives at the end, and tries to be neutral/passive about their atrocities.

Almost as if both methods rely on showing you something calming and safe to distract you before they dig deeper into your head, getting you to agree.

Dang it, now I need to go wander around that lab again, see what I've missed, then probably watch the Levi conversations on youtube. I still think that the way leviathan has it's avatars appearing all around you and teleporting is very reminiscent of the Anderson/TIM scene. May have to directly compare the two, as well. Oh, and good spot on the assistant-marine possibility.