My only problem with IT is the fits of paranoia that seem to hit this thread every once in awhile...for me what makes IT so brillant is that it is simple and subtle. But some of things dreamed up in here get so complex that it is mind numbing...
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
I know that I am ranting and probably not making alot of sense...but the beauty of IT is that it does not need all the extra complexeties. For me anyways, its power is in its simplicity.
It's seperate, but tied to IT. IT can happen without it being a trap, but just as the end makes no logical sense, on may levels, thus suggesting IT, the Crucible not being a trap is pretty much just as unlikely.
-Lots of foreshadowing related to Rio -Rio map that never occered in SP (yet) -Map has huge research looking facility that needs a lot of water for power/cooling that we know nothing about -Map has a sunrise. I even double checked on Google Earth that it it's a rise, rather than a set. Very themeatically important, as London was night, and the night is always darkest just before the dawn
Conclusion: We built something super awesome in Rio!
I tought the Rio map was a way to justify the N7 characters since they are trained there, are you suggesting it might be something else there? I'm curious, what do you think it could be?
Hello Banshee!
Modifié par Home run MF, 22 septembre 2012 - 12:04 .
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
*snip*
That's the point exactly. We have been fooled into pouring all the resources into a Reaper booby trap. A perfect deception. You honestly wouldn't expect the Reapers to tell you early "Yo dawg, that thing you're building to save yourself from us will kill you to save you from us."
My only problem with IT is the fits of paranoia that seem to hit this thread every once in awhile...for me what makes IT so brillant is that it is simple and subtle. But some of things dreamed up in here get so complex that it is mind numbing...
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
I know that I am ranting and probably not making alot of sense...but the beauty of IT is that it does not need all the extra complexeties. For me anyways, its power is in its simplicity.
It's seperate, but tied to IT. IT can happen without it being a trap, but just as the end makes no logical sense, on may levels, thus suggesting IT, the Crucible not being a trap is pretty much just as unlikely.
-Lots of foreshadowing related to Rio -Rio map that never occered in SP (yet) -Map has huge research looking facility that needs a lot of water for power/cooling that we know nothing about -Map has a sunrise. I even double checked on Google Earth that it it's a rise, rather than a set. Very themeatically important, as London was night, and the night is always darkest just before the dawn
Conclusion: We built something super awesome in Rio!
I tought the Rio map was a way to justify the N7 characters since they are trained there, are you suggesting there might be something else there? I'm curious what do you think it could be?
Hello Banshee!
They are trained in Rio, but that's not the N7 training facility. That's the main reason it's interesting.
D.Sharrah wrote... The last couple of days the pre-release comments about "we want to make the player feel what Shep feels" keeps comming to mind. We have even talked about they seemed to add an "idle animation" that makes Shep look paranoid...looking at this thread sometimes I think that they very easily achieved that goal - and I am not too proud too say that I have been victim of the very fits of paranoia that I speak of...
And the ones just after the game was released (before they planned the EC) that talked about how if we knew what they were planning the reaction would be different and we would hold onto our copies forever.
"There are aspects of ME3 that are meant to have a non-literal interpretation"
My only problem with IT is the fits of paranoia that seem to hit this thread every once in awhile...for me what makes IT so brillant is that it is simple and subtle. But some of things dreamed up in here get so complex that it is mind numbing...
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
I know that I am ranting and probably not making alot of sense...but the beauty of IT is that it does not need all the extra complexeties. For me anyways, its power is in its simplicity.
I guess the simplest resolution here would be to turn the crucible to our own ends - whether it's a trap or not, it gives access to the relay network and the ability to generate a vast amount of Dark Energy. You could build a mission around this theme that could go something like this (not totally thought-through so feel free to pick holes):
Shep'n'co provide cover for a team of techs using the crucible to hack the relay network
The techs discover they can get one ship through to the Reapers' Darkspace relay
The Normandy gets the gig because of its stealth capabilities
Final confrontation with the Reapers' controlling intelligence (as created by the Leviathans) - this could use the idea earlier in the thread that there is a "Reaper Citadel" in Darkspace where the intelligence resides
This could be pulled off in different ways depending on whether it is building towards a straight-up boss battle at the end or something conversational along the lines of Shep's verbal battles with TIM or Saren.
A variation could be created where if Shep chooses Destroy, player control will be business as usual. If Control or Synthesis, the player takes over a squadmate of choice and has an extra battle with indoctrinated Shep, perhaps on the Normandy just before or just after the jump.
I'm not sure of the best way to work EMS into this, but interested to know if anyone finds the idea appealing.
Don't get me wrong...its not that I think that its not w/o merit. I just fear sometimes that we expect too much to tie into IT - that it gets so complex, that its doomed to fail. Like I said, I think that IT in its most simple form is the most powerful - simply because it is the most probable.
I agree. Put it this way, the Crucible is a trap theory is unrelated to IT except for the fact that IT must be true for the Crucible theory to be. IT sets it up as a possiblity.
Shepard choosing synthesis, is like a police office bursting into a house with the intent to arrest aload of drug abusing gang members, but then he bumps into the leader who says, "no, dont arrest us, join in".
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
*snip*
That's the point exactly. We have been fooled into pouring all the resources into a Reaper booby trap. A perfect deception. You honestly wouldn't expect the Reapers to tell you early "Yo dawg, that thing you're building to save yorself from us will kill you to save you from us."
And I guess that's why you believe so strongly that ME 4 (if that's what it is to be called) will feature Shep...I'm still not convinced of this and don't feel like any sized "expansion" pack could do justice to the solution to defeat the reapers...
That's the point exactly. We have been fooled into pouring all the resources into a Reaper booby trap. A perfect deception. You honestly wouldn't expect the Reapers to tell you early "Yo dawg, that thing you're building to save yourself from us will kill you to save you from us."
"The reaper are cunning in their deception." - Javik
@Home Run I made a wall of text about the Rio tie-in. Give me a minute to repost it
Shepard choosing synthesis, is like a police office bursting into a house with the intent to arrest aload of drug abusing gang members, but then he bumps into the leader who says, "no, dont arrest us, join in".
"ok" says the police officer
...
Yup, I wish there was the option to tell the child to gtfo instead of listening to that pile of crap.
Shepard choosing synthesis, is like a police office bursting into a house with the intent to arrest aload of drug abusing gang members, but then he bumps into the leader who says, "no, dont arrest us, join in".
The existence of Firebase Rio: I'll start here by explaining why I think the map's existence is important. All of the MP maps are based off sections of the SP we've played on with the apparent exception of 2: Firebase Hydra and, now, Firebase Rio. But I don't think Hydra is somewhere we didn't go. Let me explain. As far as we can tell, (credit to BleedingUranium here) Firebase Hydra is most likely the cut beginning of the Geth consensus mission. I'll list the evidence I can think of off the top of my head for this: - The name Hydra seems very fitting. A collective with many programs. It suits a Geth base. - The map has Geth fighters on it; in effect it seems to be a fighter base. - The map was released very soon after the base game; it would have already fully/partially existed. - The map fits fairly well with the current mission. If you didn't notice on the map itself, there are Geth virtual reality pods in its control room, near an unused tram system. - As you can see from the following vid at starting at about 1:40, the scene cuts quite abruptly from Shepard walking with his squad at the beginning of the mission (like always happens in missions right before taking control of Shepard) to the squad being inside. Shepard then pops out a heat sink. Why would you need to do that if you haven't fought anyone yet? - There is no actual combat in this mission. I think the MP map area would have been that combat, but was cut most likely to either shorten the mission or, more likely, so as not to break the non-reality aspect of the mission. Geth consensus mission: So my point here is to simply emphasize that all MP maps, even Hydra, are based of SP locations. IMO this is clear evidence that points to a post ending DLC, seeing as they only way I can think of Rio being in SP is IT.
Rio: The map itself is quite interesting and unique, as it features a large as-of-yet unknown facility in the ocean. The whole area is heavily defended, and has the look of something quite important (some sort of research facility?) Close to the landing pad the N7 operatives land on, there is a gate (already open in MP) that says "Restricted Access" or something to that effect. This is the direction you would travel in the Rio SP mission. Following that path you will soon end up at the control-center looking thing in the middle of the map. This sparked my attention, and I immediately started looking for a ladder. Sure enough, go inside this and look up. There is a trap door in the ceiling. It closely resembles the trap doors in Chronos Station, so we know they’ve used that effect before. Looks like the ladder going through the trap door was cut in MP for obvious reasons. So the objective thus far would be to get inside the control center and activate the AA guns/drain the water/open the facility somehow. Not sure exactly how the mission would go after that, but whether this is an N7 facility or not, it is impressive that it has been this well defended up until the fleets' arrival. This would also most likely answer the question of how we would defeat the reapers if IT is true. Perhaps there is some sort of weapon there? My idea is that they’re building a mass relay, Ilos style. That would fit with the epic AA defenses. Plus, there is a section on the map called “Relay Station.” Further evidence to support Rio being a singleplayer location is the map’s combat design. It seems to be designed with the intention that the player does not have to watch their back. What I mean by that is in SP as you progress through an area, you kill the enemies in front of you and keep moving forward. You cannot employ this tactic in MP however, or you will be flanked and killed. The level is very linear in a literal and combat sense. So to add to it, the sun is rising in Rio. Now think about the game from a literary perspective. What's a very common element used by writers?
The night is darkest just before the dawn.
Where is it darkest? London.
Where is the dawn? Rio.
And that makes you think: Holy crap, it is super dark and depressing in London! What a weird way to end a story. Right now ME3 is just darkness; no dawn. Also chronologically, the sun would rise after night time, but that's secondary. It's symbolic. Speculation for everyone.
Earth MP trailer: Aside from being quite epic, the trailer is very interesting IMO. For starters, this trailer confirms the MP timeline. The fleets will arrive soon. This fits with the IT reveal possibly fitting within the MP timeline. Anyway, at 0:23, it looks like instead of Shepard, Anderson, and the squad, they replaced their models with the MP characters. This on its own means nothing; it is reusing assets. What is interesting is at 0:27-0:30 and at 0:38 especially it also looks like reused assets. But from where? There is no Rio SP mission. (Or is there? ) Let's look into 0:38-0:43 more closely. Assuming this is SP with the models replaced with MP characters, it would most likely be Shepard (judging from the looking-around animation and the camera emphasis on the destroyer-soldier, I would assume this is the replacement for Shepard's model), 2 squadmates and Anderson(?) having already dealt with Coats in London.Further evidence for this is the lack of Cobras on their backs. IMO the trailer screamed "This isn't over yet!" Anderson's "Until the fleets return" line seemed to me that we have to hold out until "the fleets" arrive, metaphorically. Also, I heard that Anderson's trailer speech is, for the most part, in the EC files. Why they would be there is a mystery to me, as I can't even think of an IT reason for it. If you can, please post it.
So yeah, there you go. Some things to think about!
My only problem with IT is the fits of paranoia that seem to hit this thread every once in awhile...for me what makes IT so brillant is that it is simple and subtle. But some of things dreamed up in here get so complex that it is mind numbing...
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
I know that I am ranting and probably not making alot of sense...but the beauty of IT is that it does not need all the extra complexeties. For me anyways, its power is in its simplicity.
I guess the simplest resolution here would be to turn the crucible to our own ends - whether it's a trap or not, it gives access to the relay network and the ability to generate a vast amount of Dark Energy.
*snip because quoting lists doesn't seem to work*
I agree, even if the Crucible's a trap, we could still find out a way to make it work in our favour. One of the most common ideas is that it's a massive indoctrination device, using the relays to pacify the entire galaxy. We could "reverse" it so it would be a mass anti-indoctrination device, unindoctrinating everyone. And if the theory I like about all the Reapers (except Harby/AI) being indoctrinated too turns out to be correct, we're left with a boss battle with Harby. Then the Reapers can go live in another galaxy or something, I dunno.
I agree, even if the Crucible's a trap, we could still find out a way to make it work in our favour. One of the most common ideas is that it's a massive indoctrination device, using the relays to pacify the entire galaxy.
Why are you talking about synthesis?
@Spotless thanks.
Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 22 septembre 2012 - 12:16 .
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
*snip*
That's the point exactly. We have been fooled into pouring all the resources into a Reaper booby trap. A perfect deception. You honestly wouldn't expect the Reapers to tell you early "Yo dawg, that thing you're building to save yorself from us will kill you to save you from us."
And I guess that's why you believe so strongly that ME 4 (if that's what it is to be called) will feature Shep...I'm still not convinced of this and don't feel like any sized "expansion" pack could do justice to the solution to defeat the reapers...
Even without the Crucible being a trap a continuation could go something like the following.
paxxton wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
*snip*
The idea that there's a counterpart to the Citadel in Dark Space is very intriguing. That might be the way for BioWare to allow Shepard to go there and witness the true face of the enemy. Might even find semi-Reaperized copies of himself that Reapers wanted to deploy among organics. Finding out that the forces attacking the Milky Way were just shock troops, and that there are millions of Reapers waiting to siege the Galaxy, could be a real twist too.
And going to a Citadel like structure in Dark Space could give us our means to defeat them as well. Arrival showed us what happens when you destroy a Mass Relay, the Citadel or something similar is just a large Mass Relay. Going to dark space and somehow overloading/smashing the Mass Relay there would destroy any Reapers there without harming the galaxy.
And that is where the Crucible could come in, a way to force the Citadel relay open and with the Reaper IFF we could also use it.
Sounds like a good purpose for the Crucible. Maybe the Reapers know a secret code to activate the Citadel relay and hence did not need the Crucible in ME1. But for organics, who obviously don't know the code, the Crucible might act as a kind of code breaker, delivering energy to an internal quantum computer, then injecting a virus with the code into the Citadel computer network.
" Then the Reapers can go live in another galaxy or something, I dunno."
Reaper 1: Where we going guys?
Reaper 2: I've always wanted to see Paris
Reaper 3: Cabo! Whoooooooo!
Reaper 4: Let's go to Disney World!
Reaper 1,2,&3: Yeeaaahhhh!
I like the connection for "It's always darkest just before dawn" with London being the darkest and Rio being dawn. After London, it can only get better!
Even without the Crucible being a trap a continuation could go something like the following.
paxxton wrote...
Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
paxxton wrote...
*snip*
The idea that there's a counterpart to the Citadel in Dark Space is very intriguing. That might be the way for BioWare to allow Shepard to go there and witness the true face of the enemy. Might even find semi-Reaperized copies of himself that Reapers wanted to deploy among organics. Finding out that the forces attacking the Milky Way were just shock troops, and that there are millions of Reapers waiting to siege the Galaxy, could be a real twist too.
And going to a Citadel like structure in Dark Space could give us our means to defeat them as well. Arrival showed us what happens when you destroy a Mass Relay, the Citadel or something similar is just a large Mass Relay. Going to dark space and somehow overloading/smashing the Mass Relay there would destroy any Reapers there without harming the galaxy.
And that is where the Crucible could come in, a way to force the Citadel relay open and with the Reaper IFF we could also use it.
Sounds like a good purpose for the Crucible. Maybe the Reapers know a secret code to activate the Citadel relay and hence did not need the Crucible in ME1. But for organics, who obviously don't know the code, the Crucible might act as a kind of code breaker, delivering energy to an internal quantum computer, then injecting a virus with the code into the Citadel computer network.
And this could avoid the "Reaper would FTL away from the explosion" problem if you destroyed a relay. That station would be where they'd hibernate, so they'd chase you there, but you'd have to hack something or other than sends all the Reapers to sleep, then destroy the station, causing a relay explosion that kills most of the Reapers.
This is also something the people who want some Reapers to survive and the conflict to continue, as they wouldn't all be there, just most of them.
My only problem with IT is the fits of paranoia that seem to hit this thread every once in awhile...for me what makes IT so brillant is that it is simple and subtle. But some of things dreamed up in here get so complex that it is mind numbing...
You do realize, that if the Crucible is a trap - all it accomplishes is another plot hole that needs to be filled. Like it or not, the Crucible as a non-trap fills a very important role to the story - a way to defeat the reapers. If its a trap, now you have to come up with a new way to defeat the reapers...fine, but you just spent an entire game building to this point where all of a sudden you go - you did that for nothing.
I know that I am ranting and probably not making alot of sense...but the beauty of IT is that it does not need all the extra complexeties. For me anyways, its power is in its simplicity.
I guess the simplest resolution here would be to turn the crucible to our own ends - whether it's a trap or not, it gives access to the relay network and the ability to generate a vast amount of Dark Energy.
*snip because quoting lists doesn't seem to work*
I agree, even if the Crucible's a trap, we could still find out a way to make it work in our favour. One of the most common ideas is that it's a massive indoctrination device, using the relays to pacify the entire galaxy. We could "reverse" it so it would be a mass anti-indoctrination device, unindoctrinating everyone. And if the theory I like about all the Reapers (except Harby/AI) being indoctrinated too turns out to be correct, we're left with a boss battle with Harby. Then the Reapers can go live in another galaxy or something, I dunno.
I am more in favor for a Star Wars EU spin on the Harbinger relationship with the rest of the Reapers. In the EU in the Thrawn Trilogy (the first media that was canon by Lucas after the original trilogy was finished...before the prequels) it is explained that the Emperor has been guiding his troops / focusing them to preform better in combat by using the force. It's also a known fact that Casey Hudson has taken inspiration from scifi like Star Wars. So I think that Harbinger could be focusing his troops and in his death it disorganizes the Reapers. Thus making them easier to defeat.
Ce sujet est fermé
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Retour en haut
LESS SENSE, MOAR BIOWARE MADE A BAD ENDING.
