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Proof that the Piranha is absolutely fine - people advocating a nerf have no case


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#1
ABjerre

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The Case
These last few weeks, a lot of talk has been going around about a particular gun: The Piranha
It stands out in its quality of very high rate of fire, large clip, low weight and high damage. So much in fact, that it seems that some people have blinded themselves looking only at its good qualities, and demand a ner.. rebalancing of the weapon.

What these people seem to forget is that its good qualities come at one particularly bad one: At arms lenght, you cannot hit the broad side of a barn with it.

In fact, its accuracy is so bad that it perfectly outweighs everything good about the gun, and lands it at a solid "okay" weapon rating overall, as its high damage: 88,7 (or a whopping 1774 damage per second) is calculated on the assumption that all pellets hit.

The Experiment
In comes the relentless horde of re-balancers: "You can spec for accuracy and put a smart choke on it! That makes you able to frikkin snipe with it." If you can show me someone actually sniping with this weapon, i would be very pleased, but untill you do, allow me to show you what it does at range:
  • Character: Destroyer w. accuracy spec and devastaror mode engaged = 25% more accuracy.
  • Weapon: Piranha X with Large Caliber Barrel V and Smart Choke V = 50% more accuracy.
  • Total: 75% more accuracy compared to the weapons base value.
  • No ammo powers, no amps were used.
  • All shots taken from cover.
I took a few screenshots on FB:W against the Geth, as that is something most people can relate to:

The Proof
The distance to the end wall is 24 meters, anyone with a sniper rifle will confirm that, and if not, i have snaps of that too. This means that the distance to the target is probably closer to 20 meters, but lets call it 22 for good measure. As you can see, the outline of the target does only cover 5 out of the 8 pellet holes in the wall behind him. Lets call it 6 hits on a good day, or 75% effectiveness @ 22 meters.

Image IPB


Next up is 30 meters:
It is a bit hard to see the holes in the wall, but the are most definantly there. In fact there are a lot more there than in the target - only 3 out of 8 pellets hit at this distance. With a bit of luck that could have been 4, so 50% effectiveness on a good day. By now, most AR's can do the job a lot better.

Image IPB

At 40 meters it wouldn't matter if i took a screen shot. It would only feature a target with full health, as at that distance, it would be more effective to take out the bullets and throw them.


Video Of hot Prianha on Cerberus Action
Thanks to Major Durza, who spend a lot of time recording and uploading, we have some more video to show how overpowred the Piranha actually is in action: www.youtube.com/watch


The Conclusion
The only rational conclusion must be that there are no grounds for ajusting this weapon.

Remember that this was done with the second highest possible accuracy increase (Tsol gets slightly more) - on all other classes, these numbers could practically be cut in half(!), meaning that the Piranha is a terribly ineffective weapon outside of a set of very specific circumstances, and that there is no reason, besides some players personal oppinions, for ner... balancing it.

Doing so would render it completely useless, as the player already has to be near point blanc range in order to reap the benefits of the weapon, and by doing so is putting himself at high risk of becoming more of a liability than an asset to the team.

A little quiz
To finish up here, would anyone like to guess how many shots it takes to kill that Pyro in
the second picture? All relevant info is in the post already.

It took 5 (FIVE!) well aimed shots.

The difficulty? Bronze.

TL;DR
The Piranha is useless @ +25 meters even with all accuracy mods. Nerfers have no case at all.

edit: Second highest accuracy increase. All shot were taken from cover.

Modifié par ABjerre, 03 août 2012 - 03:39 .


#2
IllusiveManJr

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I'll see your anti-nerf and raise you one comment. Your move.

#3
DNC Protoman

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Negative. this post is all false.

#4
its THAT guy

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Thank you! A smart and reasoned post on why this weapon doesn't need a nerf. Good job OP!

#5
FearTheCompany

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N7 Piranha
- Damage decreased from [70.9-88.7] to [63.6-79.6]
- Rate of fire decreased from [150] to [120]
- Recoil increased from [2.18] to [2.62]
- Zoom recoil increased from [2.5] to [3.1]
- Spare ammo decreased from [48-64] to [32-48]...

Modifié par FearTheCompany, 30 juillet 2012 - 11:40 .


#6
Black Phantom

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Brace yourself OP, here come the theorycrafters and trolls.

#7
Lofrof

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Tired of nerfers? Join No Nerfducks.

#8
IllusiveManJr

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Lofrof wrote...

Tired of nerfers? Join No Nerfducks.


Just make it your signature and a thread that you can bump every five minutes.

#9
gilgamesh v9

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good post OP! you put a lot of effort into this and I agree with everything you say. the piranha is only good at really close range. It's a high risk/high reward gun. Then again, the Geth Infiltrator is also a HR/HR class and we know how that went...

#10
Chealec

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ABjerre wrote...

...

Remember that this was done with the highest possible accuracy increase

...


No it wasn't - Turian Soldier.

Just sayin'

#11
Canned Madness

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You forgot that the turian soldier has the best accuary boost of 60% with accuary speced marksman.

But I agree that Bioware knows how to balance their own game, if they feel it's OP they'll do something about it.

#12
its THAT guy

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Chealec wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

...

Remember that this was done with the highest possible accuracy increase

...


No it wasn't - Turian Soldier.

Just sayin'



It's on one of the two classes that everyone seems to claim are totally OP with this gun. The test is completely relevant. And of course, the pellets that do hit get a damage bonus from devastor mode that more than makes up for those that miss. And still, the gun took 5 shots to kill those troopers at range, on BRONZE.

#13
The Waffle Cat

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ABjerre wrote...

The Case
These last few weeks, a lot of talk has been going around about a particular gun: The Piranha
It stands out in its quality of very high rate of fire, large clip, low weight and high damage. So much in fact, that it seems that some people have blinded themselves looking only at its good qualities, and demand a ner.. rebalancing of the weapon.

What these people seem to forget is that its good qualities come at one particularly bad one: At arms lenght, you cannot hit the broad side of a barn with it.

In fact, its accuracy is so bad that it perfectly outweighs everything good about the gun, and lands it at a solid "okay" weapon rating overall, as its high damage: 88,7 (or a whopping 1774 damage per second) is calculated on the assumption that all pellets hit.

The Experiment
In comes the relentless horde of re-balancers: "You can spec for accuracy and put a smart choke on it! That makes you able to frikkin snipe with it." If you can show me someone actually sniping with this weapon, i would be very pleased, but untill you do, allow me to show you what it does at range:

  • Character: Destroyer w. accuracy spec and devastaror mode engaged = 25% more accuracy.
  • Weapon: Piranha X with Large Caliber Barrel V and Smart Choke V = 50% more accuracy.
  • Total: 75% more accuracy compared to the weapons base value.
  • No ammo powers used.
I took a few screenshots on FB:W against the Geth, as that is something most people can relate to:

The Proof
The distance to the end wall is 24 meters, anyone with a sniper rifle will confirm that, and if not, i have snaps of that too. This means that the distance to the target is probably closer to 20 meters, but lets call it 22 for good measure. As you can see, the outline of the target does only cover 5 out of the 8 pellet holes in the wall behind him. Lets call it 6 hits on a good day, or 75% effectiveness @ 22 meters.

Image IPB


Next up is 30 meters:
It is a bit hard to see the holes in the wall, but the are most definantly there. In fact there are a lot more there than in the target - only 3 out of 8 pellets hit at this distance. With a bit of luck that could have been 4, so 50% effectiveness on a good day. By now, most AR's can do the job a lot better.

Image IPB

At 40 meters it wouldn't matter if i took a screen shot. It would only feature a target with full health, as at that distance, it would be more effective to take out the bullets and throw them.

The Conclusion
The only rational conclusion must be that there are no grounds for ajusting this weapon.

Remember that this was done with the highest possible accuracy increase - on all other classes, these numbers could practically be cut in half(!), meaning that the Piranha is a terribly ineffective weapon outside of a set of very specific circumstances, and that there is no reason, besides some players personal oppinions, for ner... balancing it.

Doing so would render it completely useless, as the player already has to be near point blanc range in order to reap the benefits of the weapon, and by doing so is putting himself at high risk of becoming more of a liability than an asset to the team.

A little quiz
To finish up here, would anyone like to guess how many shots it takes to kill that Pyro in
the second picture? All relevant info is in the post already.

It took 5,
(FIVE!) well aimed shots.

The difficulty? Bronze.

TL;DR
The Piranha is useless @ +25 meters even with all accuracy mods. Nerfers have no case at all.


This topic deserves a good oll M.Bison yes

Image IPB 

full of truth, people will always want the good stuff nerfed because either they use it and find it boring or they get outscored by some randoms and then they call it mainstream.

It's usual in high end PvP games such as LoL but in Mass Effect the community is worse than the LoL community and this game is not even PvP....

#14
BeardyMcGoo

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Lofrof wrote...

Tired of nerfers? Join No Nerfducks.


Is there something else I can join to get you to stop posting this?

#15
ABjerre

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Chealec wrote...
No it wasn't - Turian Soldier.

Just sayin'


I corrected the OP.

#16
Ranger3bn

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Good job with tangible and definitive results.

#17
Asebstos

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Man, for such a "terribly ineffective" weapon you sure do see it a lot. And I seem to score really well with it too. Weird. Maybe I'm just that awesome.

#18
Mason IIv

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Good job OP, I don't want to see this gun get ner... re-balanced. Its my baby!

#19
S. Shepard

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Finally, a well-reasoned post from either side of the argument. Good job TC.

#20
smyss

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exactly. and the piranha is even worse on higher difficulties at mid-long range. it also requires gear bonuses ammo/weapon bonuses as well along with the smart choke and barrel. without any of that its downright garbage

#21
Asebstos

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Mason IIv wrote...

Good job OP, I don't want to see this gun get ner... re-balanced. Its my baby!


But if its so "terribly ineffective" why is it "your baby"? Clearly its a bad and situational gun, as the OP points out.

Modifié par Asebstos, 30 juillet 2012 - 11:32 .


#22
oXTheReverendXo

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I've found the Piranha to be more accurate from the hip with the Destroyer. Give that a shot under the same circumstances to see if it makes a difference in your testing. I'm not really interested in a Piranha nerf, especially given the Platinum difficulty setting I believe it was made for, but I do believe in accurate testing to go along with arguments. With all due respect (not interested in engaging in the nerf/no-nerf debate per se), I think you might find you're hitting your targets better from the hip than you are in the posted screenshots.

#23
ismadiis

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Excellent post OP, well thought out and clearly explained
+1

#24
Javo2357

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Lofrof wrote...

Tired of nerfers? Join No Nerfducks.

Tired of spam? Report post for spam. Image IPB

#25
jebus15myname

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I really like how you took the time to test this. Kudos sir. Unfortunately, this will do little to convince those that have already made up their mind about the piranha.