351 réponses à ce sujet

[GodlessPaladin]

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant without accuracy bonuses not count?  How about Dagger on a Turian Soldier sniping across the map?  I can provide video testing for those right now.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[BlackoutOmega]

death_for_sale wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Slayan_ wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mGcs-N4Jogg

why a rare weapon that does this would need a nerf?

First of all, i'm not quite sure that video is platinium. Why?

Why indeed would you deny that that's Platinum?

So why are there banshees, geth hunters, and atlasses at the same time in that video?

Cmon, be honest now.

They deny every shred of proof or try to twist it to suit their argument. Unfortunately there is a group of people that would rather have overpowered weapons that allow them to play higher difficulties than they would normally be able to play, instead of having a challenge.

The problem is that BW should never have given a credit incentive to play harder difficulties, or at least made it much smaller than it is. As it stands, I think some people feel they have to play harder difficulties to get more credits, not because they want to. Because of that, those people fight to keep the weapons, powers, and classes that allow them to be able to do the harder difficulties.

No. People want to keep the weapons as they are because they are fun to use, and ruining a weapon so that nobody uses it anymore is just stupid.
Not everybody can solo gold, or speedrun platinum....

[joker_jack]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant not count?  How about Dagger?  I have vids for those too.

Giant is a fun map to fight cerberus on regardless of speed run or not. 

[GodlessPaladin]

BlackoutOmega wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Slayan_ wrote...

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mGcs-N4Jogg

why a rare weapon that does this would need a nerf?

First of all, i'm not quite sure that video is platinium. Why?

Why indeed would you deny that that's Platinum?

So why are there banshees, geth hunters, and atlasses at the same time in that video?

Cmon, be honest now.

They deny every shred of proof or try to twist it to suit their argument. Unfortunately there is a group of people that would rather have overpowered weapons that allow them to play higher difficulties than they would normally be able to play, instead of having a challenge.

The problem is that BW should never have given a credit incentive to play harder difficulties, or at least made it much smaller than it is. As it stands, I think some people feel they have to play harder difficulties to get more credits, not because they want to. Because of that, those people fight to keep the weapons, powers, and classes that allow them to be able to do the harder difficulties.

No. People want to keep the weapons as they are because they are fun to use, and ruining a weapon so that nobody uses it anymore is just stupid.
Not everybody can solo gold, or speedrun platinum....

So would the Piranha be "ruined" if they didn't give it a 10% buff last week?  If so, why?  And if not, your statement is just hyperbole.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:25 .

[LeandroBraz]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant not count?  How about Dagger?  I have vids for those too.

You have video of an average player doing it? The change is for all the players, not only for you. It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon for you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

I'm not saying that your videos means nothing, they show the potencial you can hit with this weapon, but they aren't final, there's a lot more factors and scenarios that must be considered before concluding that the weapon is OP (which I hope Bioware have and actually look at).

[Anders028]

 I played a session with the Piranha and Geth Infiltrator and the Reapers got shredded.  I actually said to myself yesterday that it may need a tweak.

I would prefer a slight damage reduction and cut the rate of fire by a percentage.  That would probably be enough to put a dent in its power

[GodlessPaladin]

LeandroBraz wrote...
It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon fo  you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

  I never posted a Kroguard video except the one that discovered and proved that the melee was glitched. <_<

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:28 .

[Anders028]

 Put as much accuracy increase on it as you can.  That Devastor mode has an accuracy increase in it and then put the smart choke and proceed to destroy everything

[Lambda_00]

death_for_sale wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant not count?  How about Dagger?  I have vids for those too.

You have video of an average player doing it? The change is for all the players, not only for you. It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon for you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

I'm not saying that your videos means nothing, they show the potencial you can hit with this weapon, but they aren't final, there's a lot more factors and scenarios that must be considered before concluding that the weapon is OP (which I hope Bioware have and actually look at).

It is a moot point, because unless someone shopped them, Fagnan sent out two PM's saying they thought the Typhoon was OP (I'm not seeing this one) and that the Piranha was being looked at for being OP.

You'd honestly think they'd catch that sort of thing before the weapons were even released...

[greghorvath]

I was thinking of answering but Leandro made the point for me. And I also feel this discussion is idiotic and part of a farcical procedure I do not wish to participate in any longer. Greg out.

[LeandroBraz]

death_for_sale wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant not count?  How about Dagger?  I have vids for those too.

You have video of an average player doing it? The change is for all the players, not only for you. It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon for you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

I'm not saying that your videos means nothing, they show the potencial you can hit with this weapon, but they aren't final, there's a lot more factors and scenarios that must be considered before concluding that the weapon is OP (which I hope Bioware have and actually look at).

It is a moot point, because unless someone shopped them, Fagnan sent out two PM's saying they thought the Typhoon was OP (I'm not seeing this one) and that the Piranha was being looked at for being OP.

Then they have their reason to do it (I really strong disagree with Typhoon, but let see what they gonna do).

One thing that I would look at, for example, you can do a specific build in wich the weapon is extremely OP. I would look how many players are using it, and how many of this players are actually winning matches, or doing a lot of damage with it. If it's higly above other guns, then it's OP.

[GodlessPaladin]

Lambda_00 wrote...
You'd honestly think they'd catch that sort of thing before the weapons were even released...

You'd think they'd not buff it right after it was released and already dominating everything in every single bloody match I went into on Platinum, either.  But I guess that every player I've ever seen using it doesn't count as "average" because they're playing on Platinum so its effectiveness in their hands doesn't matter according to LeandroBraz.  .

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:53 .

[LeandroBraz]

Lambda_00 wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Allelujah!! Someone with arguments!! See, people against nerfs, do it! Argument, show something, don't come here saying "OMG don't nerf my favorite weapon, it will be useless and ruin the game!! I will sue Bioware for false advertisement!! I hate everyone!!"

Arguments help, crying don't.

  Indeed.  It's refreshing, even if I don't find the argument being given convincing (e.g. that lack of extreme effectiveness against a single small target down range discredits any case for the Piranha being overpowered... that bit just reads as hyperbole to me.   The simple fact that it's the primary weapon of choice for the world's fastest Platinum speedrun in addition to having the weight of a sidearm is a decent case on its own), but that doesn't change the fact that I respect an actual attempt at argument being given.

You are actually bringing up speedruns as an argument? So much for choosing basis for "balancing"...

Uhm, what?

What's your point supposed to be here?  Are you disagreeing with the notion that achieving a world record is something that gets done with the top shelf options in a game? 

Incidentally, in said game, a number of the characters using Piranhas didn't have any accuracy bonuses.  And that's because you don't need them.

The Piranha can outdamage the Reegar Carbine and it can do so at greater range and with less weight.  The OP's argument doesn't address that.  All it claims is that it loses effectiveness after... a much longer range than the Reegar Carbine goes, and only against a small target, not against bosses.

I think what he mean is that speedruns is something just a few players actually can do it. Plus, you guys do it on glacier, right? Well, how I gonna judge a low range weapon only in one environment where range isn't almost needed? You need to consider the average player using it, in close areas, but in open areas as well.

So does Firebase Giant not count?  How about Dagger?  I have vids for those too.

You have video of an average player doing it? The change is for all the players, not only for you. It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon for you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

I'm not saying that your videos means nothing, they show the potencial you can hit with this weapon, but they aren't final, there's a lot more factors and scenarios that must be considered before concluding that the weapon is OP (which I hope Bioware have and actually look at).

It is a moot point, because unless someone shopped them, Fagnan sent out two PM's saying they thought the Typhoon was OP (I'm not seeing this one) and that the Piranha was being looked at for being OP.

You'd honestly think they'd catch that sort of thing before the weapons were even released...

The case is that there's only a few people testing it before release, like platinum, that they tought it was a lotharder than actually is. When it get to or hands, we start to find builds and ways to use it that they didn't think about, after all, we are creative =D

we surprise they. There's no way they can predict what we gonna do with the things they release...

Modifié par LeandroBraz, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:33 .

[mrwizeguy]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...
It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon fo  you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

  I never posted a Kroguard video except the one that discovered and proved that the melee was glitched. <_<

that was stardusks or whatever his name is , reegar kroguard cerberus ghost
useless gameplay , i wonder some people have such a big idea of themselfs that they seem not to see that they are actually making fools of themselves

another publicity wannabe just like godless here.
so godless u asking for piranha nerf here , i didnt follow

Modifié par mrwizeguy, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:37 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I'm an average player an I think the Piranha is alright. It doesn't melt things as fast as the Reegar, but it's got a more usable range. For me, the trouble with the Reegar wasn't so much raw power - the thing was pretty much a flamethrower with no AoE and I so I didn't like how it played. OTOH, the Piranha at least plays like how you'd want a shotgun to play in this game. I recognize that the gun is very dominant right now, but I find it in particular to be very fun, so I'm more for buffing the underpowered weapons than nerfing this one shotgun that actually works like a shotgun.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:43 .

[LeandroBraz]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Lambda_00 wrote...
You'd honestly think they'd catch that sort of thing before the weapons were even released...

You'd think they'd not buff it right after it was released and dominating everything in every single bloody match I went into on Platinum, either.  But I guess that every player I've ever seen using it doesn't count as "average" because they're playing on Platinum so its effectiveness in their hands doesn't matter according to LeandroBraz. 

I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm saying your group don't represent the majority of the players, what you see playing (or what I see) is just one part of it, you need to work with more info. Try some random lobbies, you gonna see that her effectiveness considerably drop.

 The buff was one week after, so I can see two possibilities:

- They already planned this buff before release, since normally they like to wait some time before doing changes, after all, they need to get data, if they really take this balance changes seriously.

- or they saw all the people complaining that they couldn't hit a d*mn thing, and decided to give some damage to compensate it, which I doubt, I go with the first one..

[LeandroBraz]

mrwizeguy wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...
It's like the reegar carbine video, I think it was yours. One player higly above the majority, with a tank (kroguard), blaming the weapon fo  you being unstopable. Well, the average player just keep dying trying to use it.

  I never posted a Kroguard video except the one that discovered and proved that the melee was glitched. <_<

that was stardusks or whatever his name is , reegar kroguard cerberus ghost
useless gameplay , i wonder some people have such a big idea of themselfs that they seem not to see that they are actually making fools of themselves

another publicity wannabe just like godless here.
so godless u asking for piranha nerf here , i didnt follow

yes, it was stardusk, sorry. That's why I was careful to say that I was not sure =)

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The accuracy bonus is rather odd, considering that the weapon is highly inaccurate to begin with, a % increase really shouldn't have a significant impact. Like when you spec a Drell for full fitness, his health and shields are still very low because you're adding % increases to a low base spec.

But I don't like the idea of removing accuracy bonuses completely, either. That would hurt the Turian Soldier the most, on his one power that sets him apart. He's also balanced by his slowness, no dodge, etc.

On the other hand, it wouldn't affect a character like the GI all that much, who would retain his massive damage bonus, ability to see through walls, movement speed, etc.

I would argue that the Turian Solder is already more "squishy" than the GI on Gold, even with the Hunter Mode cutting shields in half.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Lambda_00 wrote...
You'd honestly think they'd catch that sort of thing before the weapons were even released... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

You'd think they'd not buff it right after it was released and already dominating everything. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

The buff was an odd move.  Should go back to original stats.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:45 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Eh, the accuracy bonus isn't the main problem, and the biggest beneficiary there is the Turian Soldier, and that's all good in my book.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
On the other hand, it wouldn't affect a character like the GI all that much, who would retain his massive damage bonus, ability to see through walls, movement speed, etc.

  Yep.

I would argue that the Turian Solder is already more "squishy" than the GI on Gold, even with the Hunter Mode cutting shields in half.

Less than half most of the time, since Hunter Mode only cuts off a flat 50% of the base shields.   So if you got say 300% shields (such as what, 100% base, 65% fitness, 30% shield booster, >100% Cyclonic Mod IV), Hunter Mode would only reduce it to 250%. 

Then you consider that he's got decent base shields for those bonuses to go off of... and cloak, a movement speed bonus, a dodge, the ability to set traps or stagger with proximity mine, and the ability to blow away a problematic target on a whim, the GI has considerable survivability.  The "GIs are squishy" thing is a myth.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[Rokayt]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Eh, the accuracy bonus isn't the main problem, and the primary beneficiary there is the Turian Soldier, and that's all good in my book.  The Piranha wielding TS doesn't strike me as overpowered.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
On the other hand, it wouldn't affect a character like the GI all that much, who would retain his massive damage bonus, ability to see through walls, movement speed, etc.

  Yep.

I would argue that the Turian Solder is already more "squishy" than the GI on Gold, even with the Hunter Mode cutting shields in half.

Less than half most of the time, since Hunter Mode only cuts off a flat 50% of the base shields.   So if you got say 300% shields (such as what, 100% base, 65% fitness, 30% shield booster, >100% Cyclonic Mod IV), Hunter Mode would only reduce it to 250%. 

Then you consider that he's got decent base shields for those bonuses to go off of... and cloak, a movement speed bonus, a dodge, the ability to set traps or stagger with proximity mine, and the ability to blow away a problematic target on a whim, the GI has considerable survivability.  The "GIs are squishy" thing is a myth.

Level 4 fitness is all it takes to effectively get rid of the hunter mode penalty.

[Beta Commando]

This is good proof that the gun is only good at point-blank range. People who want this gun to be nerfed are probably the ones who don´t have it yet and yes it is very effective in CQB, in fact it is one of the best and people who don´t have this yet will want the gun to be nerfed because many people do run FBW/G/G and there people always camp downstairs where it is CQB making the gun most effective. Sorry for my bad English grammar and skills as it is not my native language.

[silencedmages12]

DNC Protoman wrote...

Negative. this post is all false.

 You need to go to the highest elevation that you can find and have my ex-cerberus vanguard lash your stupid ass off the edge of it.  You are a complete waste of everyones time, and honestly, i hope you burn in the infinite fires of hell for all eternity!

[silencedmages12]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 01 août 2012 - 02:49 .