351 réponses à ce sujet

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Slayan_ wrote...



why a rare weapon that does this would need a nerf?

First of all, i'm not quite sure that video is platinium. Why?

Why indeed would you deny that that's Platinum?

So why are there banshees, geth hunters, and atlasses at the same time in that video?

Cmon, be honest now.

They deny every shred of proof or try to twist it to suit their argument. Unfortunately there is a group of people that would rather have overpowered weapons that allow them to play higher difficulties than they would normally be able to play, instead of having a challenge.

The problem is that BW should never have given a credit incentive to play harder difficulties, or at least made it much smaller than it is. As it stands, I think some people feel they have to play harder difficulties to get more credits, not because they want to. Because of that, those people fight to keep the weapons, powers, and classes that allow them to be able to do the harder difficulties.

And I suppose you branding every rational argument as "trolls" is acceptable behavior? We acknowlege all of your arguments that under ideal circumstances this gun devastates, we point out IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES and you say "Ummm, troll, troll! You deny the TRUTH, troll

I forgot how to image on this forum, someone please tell me how, because this is appropriate:
http://cdn.memegener...0x/20454692.jpg

Allow me to spell out to you what you are denying:
You are denying the idea that anyone can run out of shotgun amp III's and AP Ammo III's and IV's
You are denying the notion that anyone will pick a permanent gear slot other than Shotgun Amp V
You are denying the idea that there are people without shotgun amp V
You deny that the sustained DPS at range equals the Mattock or Harrier at 30m, and that both of those weapons can sustain that DPS at even longer ranges.

You are showing us that this gun's accuracy is not a problem by killing the easiest mooks of the easiest faction at point-blank range
You claim that this gun's accuracy is not a problem with bosses because it misses 30% of its pellets at 30m, when only the Atlas and Brute have that wide of a profile, WITH accuracy bonuses.

Furthermore, whereas we take apart every post you make you make feeble stabs at the weakest posts you can find.

/sarcasm
And yes, we just want our win buttons so people like you are forced to use these guns so that there is no challenge in the game for you
/end sarcasm

You personally haven't taken apart a single post of mine successfully. What you did do in the thread I created is ride the coattails of people you 'thought' were making successful arguments and complained about getting Fraps working so you could do your own video. Which you never posted the link to because after testing it you pretty much agreed with me that it was slightly OP on casters.

I am uploading a short youtube video of this weapon in practice. I selected Unkown/Unkown/Gold, I ended up with Cerberus (*sigh*) on Firebase Goddess. I only recorded two waves (one less than the OP recorded) and it shows that this gun is not that OP... It is treading a very thin line, it is VERY good at its niche.

You are denying the idea that anyone can run out of shotgun amp III's and AP Ammo III's and IV's

Yes, yes I am. If you can't buy JEP's, that isn't anyone else's problem but yours.

You are denying the notion that anyone will pick a permanent gear slot other than Shotgun Amp V

If they are building around the weapon, why would they?

You are denying the idea that there are people without shotgun amp V

There probably are, they lose 15% damage on an OP weapon, I shudder to think of the consequences.

You
deny that the sustained DPS at range equals the Mattock or Harrier at
30m, and that both of those weapons can sustain that DPS at even longer
ranges.

The sustained DPS at range of the Piranha does equal two of the best AR's in the game FLAT DPS (not counting reload). Yes, they can sustain that at longer distance. They cannot however INCREASE their DPS as the target gets closer and one of them weighs a lot more than the Piranha. The other is semi auto and DPS is calculated on it with the assumption that you can fire very fast by clicking over and over. Unless you bind your mousewheel to fire, you will lose some of that DPS on the Mattock.

You're using quotes around "thought", not sure what that is supposed to mean.  Context says emphasis, pssible mocking. If either, it was poorly executed.

I have been spamming JEP's enough to get my medigel from 0 to 80-something and got a grand total of 6 AP ammo's, and 2 Shotgun Amp III's, and I do not have shotgun amp V.  They do not drop with any freqeuncy, so people do run out.  All of the time, if you balance Weapons around Damage BONUSES you are going to have a rather weak weapon.

OP=OverPowered.  Overpowered implies versatility, which this gun does not have.  Its cutoff range is rather tangible, provided you do not have accuracy BONUSES.

They would not use Shotgun Amp if they are not building around the weapon.  Believe it or not, there are people that do not build their characters to exploit weapons.  So if this gun is *good* with every exploit possible, then what is it without?  The Krysae?

Sure you cannot increase DPS as the target gets closer, but falling back, staying out in the open and casting powers should remain viable, yes?  By your arguments that the Piranha is very OP the requirement to stay out on the open is not very... deterring.

Furthermore, you are saying it takes skill for the Mattock to keep up its sustained DPS, on anything smaller than an Atlas it takes the same.  Are you every going to get max DPS on a moving Banshee?  Nope, what about a nemesis?  If its camping, it takes a lot of skill to get that theoretical DPS.
And its uploading now, ETA 400 minutes for a 2:32 long video <_<

In it there is an example of all.  A energy drain plus about 4 shots that kills 2 assault troopers, and energy drain and somewhere between 5-7 shots to kill a Centurion, 7 shots to kill an Assault Trooper and all that jazz.
the link is not going to work for another 400 minutes at the time of this writing, but here is the link.
 

You will see spectacularly quick kills, and you will see some epic fails.  This will also showcase the problem of human error.  you will see early on in the movie me missing a nemesis with almost the full clip.  I blame lag 

It is short and succinct, only takes 2 and a half minutes when it does show up.  It also shows how this gun could probably become garbage in a small to moderate nerf.
class, N7 Paladin.
Weapons:
N7 Piranha X, Smart Choke V, Heavy Barrel V
N7 Eagle IV. Pistol Ultrialight Materials V, Piercing mod V
Gear: Structural Ergonomics IV (To keep my cooldowns decent, example of not using the Shotgun Amp)

I do not fully recall whether or not I am using the consumable shotgun amp, I knew I was out of III's at the time (Vorcha Soldier + Reegar at that up!  OP as hell that combo, and I got tired of losing in PUG's)
I do not think I was using ammo or armor mods, a little short on both, particularly at the time of recording!

Well, anyway, cheers!  And do call me a troll again, I do love when you misuse that word!

[Commander Kais]

why do people care how other people play the game? just dont use it :S

[Major Durza]

Commander Kais wrote...

why do people care how other people play the game? just dont use it :S

Their point is that they don't want to see everyone using it and everyone doing well with it, it might make it too easy for them.

[silencedmages12]

The new balance changes are out and guess what? The N7 Piranha was unscathed, thank the ME3 Gods for that! All you stupid a** trolled out nerfers can suck it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Variasaber]

What the nerfers don't seem to realize is that most of the shotguns have an unusually long effective range -- it's actually realistic and most real life shotguns have similar effective ranges, but most video game shotguns have a much shorter range than that, more like what the Piranha has.

If that's what the HUD looks like in Devastator Mode, I'm now even more excited to get a Destroyer

[vinlandhammer]

silencedmages12 wrote...

The new balance changes are out and guess what? The N7 Piranha was unscathed, thank the ME3 Gods for that! All you stupid a** trolled out nerfers can suck it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nerfer High Command will issue 100 more threads to deal with this setback.

Nerf HQ
Commander Nerftroll 

[CC-Tron]

Zero132132 wrote...

DivineAtropos wrote...

The Waffle Cat wrote...

FearTheCompany wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...
You're shooting a shotgun at 30 meters expecting accuracy?
The only gun that can is the crusader the GPS.
Bogus.

I expected a lot of things - hitting targets was not one of them. It does however seem that a lot of people on these forums give this gun much more credit than due is, hence i proved that it is not accurate at mid or long range.

That doesn't matter. It is a close range shotgun that is overpowered and it will meet its doom.

Which classes can actually go that close without dieing.

There goes your idiotic statement.

I use a Piranha on my Shadow to great effect. Works great to finish off pyros if my Shadow Strike doesn't kill them, and it gives me some sort of usefulness against bosses. Primes are a joke. And I play tactically so as not to ever go down outside of some crazy happenings.

And don't forget the Kroguard, you can comfortably get close to anything that's not a charged up Banshee without fear of dying.

Or phantoms. But the Kroguard still does substantially better with the Reegar, so I don't know why you'd bother with the Piranha.

The kroguard doesn't do better with the reegar because of it's much greater weight which adds good amount of time to the biotic charge cooldowns. Overall the kroguard is less efficient wielding a reegar.

[parico]

People are just mad because if used properly it can drop enemies quickly. I use it primarily with Krogans, vanguards and on my shadow. Its a good gun but you need to be really close to hit them like with the claymore so its a high risk high reward weapon. It can drop an atlas on silver with a full clip once the shields are down but you are right in front on it or behind it if you can be. Those with inferior skill and weapons need to stop whining. Maybe the nerfers would prefer we all have to use avengers and predators and never kill anything.

[ABjerre]

silencedmages12 wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...

Negative. this post is all false.

 You need to go to the highest elevation that you can find and have my ex-cerberus vanguard lash your stupid ass off the edge of it.  You are a complete waste of everyones time, and honestly, i hope you burn in the infinite fires of hell for all eternity!

silencedmages12 wrote...

[inappropriate post removed]

Considering what you chose to post, i'm kinda curious to what it actually was that you considered inappropriate...

[Yosuke]

"It has bad range, and that means it can't be OP."

I seem to recall a similar case being made for the reegar. At least the piranha requires you to aim, though.

[MingoStarr]

I support no rebalancing of the piranha!

Also good post, I like the actual work put into it, compared to the usual, "It's (not) OP! (Don't) Nerf!" threads.

I won't lie, I argue against the nerf, but nothing as well as this. Usually more similar to, "Nuh uh! Sucks at longer distances! Nanananana psssshhhhff!"

Now I can just link this thread

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Major Durza wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Slayan_ wrote...



why a rare weapon that does this would need a nerf?

First of all, i'm not quite sure that video is platinium. Why?

Why indeed would you deny that that's Platinum?

So why are there banshees, geth hunters, and atlasses at the same time in that video?

Cmon, be honest now.

They deny every shred of proof or try to twist it to suit their argument. Unfortunately there is a group of people that would rather have overpowered weapons that allow them to play higher difficulties than they would normally be able to play, instead of having a challenge.

The problem is that BW should never have given a credit incentive to play harder difficulties, or at least made it much smaller than it is. As it stands, I think some people feel they have to play harder difficulties to get more credits, not because they want to. Because of that, those people fight to keep the weapons, powers, and classes that allow them to be able to do the harder difficulties.

And I suppose you branding every rational argument as "trolls" is acceptable behavior? We acknowlege all of your arguments that under ideal circumstances this gun devastates, we point out IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES and you say "Ummm, troll, troll! You deny the TRUTH, troll

I forgot how to image on this forum, someone please tell me how, because this is appropriate:
http://cdn.memegener...0x/20454692.jpg

Allow me to spell out to you what you are denying:
You are denying the idea that anyone can run out of shotgun amp III's and AP Ammo III's and IV's
You are denying the notion that anyone will pick a permanent gear slot other than Shotgun Amp V
You are denying the idea that there are people without shotgun amp V
You deny that the sustained DPS at range equals the Mattock or Harrier at 30m, and that both of those weapons can sustain that DPS at even longer ranges.

You are showing us that this gun's accuracy is not a problem by killing the easiest mooks of the easiest faction at point-blank range
You claim that this gun's accuracy is not a problem with bosses because it misses 30% of its pellets at 30m, when only the Atlas and Brute have that wide of a profile, WITH accuracy bonuses.

Furthermore, whereas we take apart every post you make you make feeble stabs at the weakest posts you can find.

/sarcasm
And yes, we just want our win buttons so people like you are forced to use these guns so that there is no challenge in the game for you
/end sarcasm

You personally haven't taken apart a single post of mine successfully. What you did do in the thread I created is ride the coattails of people you 'thought' were making successful arguments and complained about getting Fraps working so you could do your own video. Which you never posted the link to because after testing it you pretty much agreed with me that it was slightly OP on casters.

I am uploading a short youtube video of this weapon in practice. I selected Unkown/Unkown/Gold, I ended up with Cerberus (*sigh*) on Firebase Goddess. I only recorded two waves (one less than the OP recorded) and it shows that this gun is not that OP... It is treading a very thin line, it is VERY good at its niche.

You are denying the idea that anyone can run out of shotgun amp III's and AP Ammo III's and IV's

Yes, yes I am. If you can't buy JEP's, that isn't anyone else's problem but yours.

You are denying the notion that anyone will pick a permanent gear slot other than Shotgun Amp V

If they are building around the weapon, why would they?

You are denying the idea that there are people without shotgun amp V

There probably are, they lose 15% damage on an OP weapon, I shudder to think of the consequences.

You
deny that the sustained DPS at range equals the Mattock or Harrier at
30m, and that both of those weapons can sustain that DPS at even longer
ranges.

The sustained DPS at range of the Piranha does equal two of the best AR's in the game FLAT DPS (not counting reload). Yes, they can sustain that at longer distance. They cannot however INCREASE their DPS as the target gets closer and one of them weighs a lot more than the Piranha. The other is semi auto and DPS is calculated on it with the assumption that you can fire very fast by clicking over and over. Unless you bind your mousewheel to fire, you will lose some of that DPS on the Mattock.

You're using quotes around "thought", not sure what that is supposed to mean.  Context says emphasis, pssible mocking. If either, it was poorly executed.

I have been spamming JEP's enough to get my medigel from 0 to 80-something and got a grand total of 6 AP ammo's, and 2 Shotgun Amp III's, and I do not have shotgun amp V.  They do not drop with any freqeuncy, so people do run out.  All of the time, if you balance Weapons around Damage BONUSES you are going to have a rather weak weapon.

OP=OverPowered.  Overpowered implies versatility, which this gun does not have.  Its cutoff range is rather tangible, provided you do not have accuracy BONUSES.

They would not use Shotgun Amp if they are not building around the weapon.  Believe it or not, there are people that do not build their characters to exploit weapons.  So if this gun is *good* with every exploit possible, then what is it without?  The Krysae?

Sure you cannot increase DPS as the target gets closer, but falling back, staying out in the open and casting powers should remain viable, yes?  By your arguments that the Piranha is very OP the requirement to stay out on the open is not very... deterring.

Furthermore, you are saying it takes skill for the Mattock to keep up its sustained DPS, on anything smaller than an Atlas it takes the same.  Are you every going to get max DPS on a moving Banshee?  Nope, what about a nemesis?  If its camping, it takes a lot of skill to get that theoretical DPS.
And its uploading now, ETA 400 minutes for a 2:32 long video <_<

In it there is an example of all.  A energy drain plus about 4 shots that kills 2 assault troopers, and energy drain and somewhere between 5-7 shots to kill a Centurion, 7 shots to kill an Assault Trooper and all that jazz.
the link is not going to work for another 400 minutes at the time of this writing, but here is the link.
 

You will see spectacularly quick kills, and you will see some epic fails.  This will also showcase the problem of human error.  you will see early on in the movie me missing a nemesis with almost the full clip.  I blame lag 

It is short and succinct, only takes 2 and a half minutes when it does show up.  It also shows how this gun could probably become garbage in a small to moderate nerf.
class, N7 Paladin.
Weapons:
N7 Piranha X, Smart Choke V, Heavy Barrel V
N7 Eagle IV. Pistol Ultrialight Materials V, Piercing mod V
Gear: Structural Ergonomics IV (To keep my cooldowns decent, example of not using the Shotgun Amp)

I do not fully recall whether or not I am using the consumable shotgun amp, I knew I was out of III's at the time (Vorcha Soldier + Reegar at that up!  OP as hell that combo, and I got tired of losing in PUG's)
I do not think I was using ammo or armor mods, a little short on both, particularly at the time of recording!

Well, anyway, cheers!  And do call me a troll again, I do love when you misuse that word!

The video has been removed by user............................

Ah, I see.  I will try uploading again, and make sure my nephew does not play with my surge protector again
May be another 400 minutes   Assuming family does not interfere again. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrVKAT0iYI&feature=youtu.be 

Lets try this again... not sure why it takes 7 hours to upload 2:30, but I did not pick my internet service for upload speed.
Apologies in advance.

[stjabr]

Thank you OP!

I've just unlocked the Piranha after hearing all the nerf calls on here, and I really can't see what the fuss was about. Felt woefully inaccurate and difficult to use even on Bronze. Good for Glacier I expect, but feels terrible on any other map.

[NuclearTech76]

Nice, well thought out post OP.

The weapon is still an atlas slayer at that distance because more pellets hit home. The piranha on an infiltrator is still sick because you are up close and personal more with it.

[Ryan_H]

Great OP! 

This whole argument is due to BW's ineptness at designing and implementing Multiplayer FPSers.  This is the only game I've played where each week there is a balance change aka 'we don't know what we are doing and are making this sh** up as we go' change.

To all the Nerfers:  You make many good points but what I find ridiculous is that many of you use the weapons you are arguing to be nerfed.  Maybe its just me but I wouldn't/don't play weapons that I deem in need of a nerf. 

Challenge: If the Piranha is so OP then I challenge a nerfer with the ability to record video to make a video of himself soloing gold with any character without using any powers, melee or equipment relying entirely on the Piranha (weapon mods allowed).

Modifié par Ryan_H, 01 août 2012 - 06:08 .

[Kick In The Door]

Hey guys I was just thinking what if we had Yahgs with Piranhas and Omni-Shields!!?!?!

[Kick In The Door]

I have another question about the Piranha. Say I had it on my Krogan soldier. Would it be good at say 26meters?

[Kick In The Door]

MingoStarr wrote...

I support no rebalancing of the piranha!

Also good post, I like the actual work put into it, compared to the usual, "It's (not) OP! (Don't) Nerf!" threads.

I won't lie, I argue against the nerf, but nothing as well as this. Usually more similar to, "Nuh uh! Sucks at longer distances! Nanananana psssshhhhff!"

Now I can just link this thread

I like the work that's put into it as well. I really appreciate the science of it, the math. Really fits a tight nail in opposing argument's coffins. 

Modifié par Kick In The Door, 03 août 2012 - 01:39 .

[Kick In The Door]

Yosuke wrote...

"It has bad range, and that means it can't be OP."

I seem to recall a similar case being made for the reegar. At least the piranha requires you to aim, though.

That's exactly what I'm saying man! 

The reegar is just as strong as the piranha yet it's been relatively untouched, people want it nerfed because it's shiny and new. 

Can only imagine how it was with the Claymore.

[Kick In The Door]

parico wrote...

People are just mad because if used properly it can drop enemies quickly. I use it primarily with Krogans, vanguards and on my shadow. Its a good gun but you need to be really close to hit them like with the claymore so its a high risk high reward weapon. It can drop an atlas on silver with a full clip once the shields are down but you are right in front on it or behind it if you can be. Those with inferior skill and weapons need to stop whining. Maybe the nerfers would prefer we all have to use avengers and predators and never kill anything.

Why would you use it on Vanguards? Seems a little too heavy. I like my 200% for a full proof run. 

And the nerfers are selfish, they only care about molding and shaping the game in their image with complete disregard for the rest of the community. 

[Kick In The Door]

DullahansXMark wrote...

I made a similar thread earlier, but this one is definitely better. Sad too, because I had been planning mine since last night

Oh well, at least it got done, and well too! Thanks OP!

I think it's worth it making the thread. Who knows maybe a lot of people will agree with, or maybe not. You'll never really know until you make that thread.


It could grow to 50 pages, take a chance. 

[Kick In The Door]

FearTheCompany wrote...

The Waffle Cat wrote...

FearTheCompany wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...
You're shooting a shotgun at 30 meters expecting accuracy?
The only gun that can is the crusader the GPS.
Bogus.

I expected a lot of things - hitting targets was not one of them. It does however seem that a lot of people on these forums give this gun much more credit than due is, hence i proved that it is not accurate at mid or long range.

That doesn't matter. It is a close range shotgun that is overpowered and it will meet its doom.

Which classes can actually go that close without dieing.

There goes your idiotic statement.

You don't even have to be that close to use it. Just use a shield mod if you die to much.(Not applying directly towards you)

To do any real damage, yes, yes you do need to be 'that close'. 

[Kick In The Door]

silencedmages12 wrote...

The new balance changes are out and guess what? The N7 Piranha was unscathed, thank the ME3 Gods for that! All you stupid a** trolled out nerfers can suck it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man that was awesome. Such a feel good moment to have the nerfers swiftly cut down by their knees. Groveling in the dirt.

It was beautiful. 

[MacGarrus]

Kick In The Door wrote...

silencedmages12 wrote...

The new balance changes are out and guess what? The N7 Piranha was unscathed, thank the ME3 Gods for that! All you stupid a** trolled out nerfers can suck it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man that was awesome. Such a feel good moment to have the nerfers swiftly cut down by their knees. Groveling in the dirt.

It was beautiful. 

Uh huh, while we're pulling complete lies out of our deluded need to feel right: how about telling me the weather on Mars?