ABjerre wrote...
I tested everything from cover.
Ok, I mistakenly thought from the screenshots that you were standing in different places than you were. It doesn't really matter, I went on to point out how showing a gun is inaccurate isn't a judge of it's power independent of all other variables.
And i added a vid of the effectivenetss of mobile gameplay that a fellow forumite was kind enough to upload.
You added a vid of a spell-oriented class with 4 ranks of training hip firing guys on wave 2. What exactly where you trying to prove? Your "tests" were all with a destroyer from cover. The Paladin doesn't even roll in that video, so it's not like what he's doing is something a Destroyer can't. The main arguments against the Piranha are about its effectiveness on bosses when used by accuracy increasing classes, what does Piranha vs. wave 2 cerberus show? He actually was killing things pretty proficiently, unless the Centurion at the start is the basis of your whole argument. His cooldowns clearly weren't too effected by it, either. At best the vid is a nonsequitur and at worst it shows that the Piranha creates a CQ powerhouse without any passive boosts and without messing up cooldowns.
I would like to hear what you define as "working". I never said that it wouldn't work, only that its effectiveness is severly reduced beyond that point. And yes, i consider 5/8 pettel hits on normal size enemies @ 20 meters quite severe.
You said it was useless beyond ~25m even with all the accuracy mods. That's what I'm going on. The toughest normal sized enemies on Gold (Pyro and Hunter) take 5 shots to kill from your 887 dmg figure and assuming 5/8 pellets hit. If any pellets hit the head, it's a 4 shot kill. Everything else is 4 or less, unless your talking about a Nemesis or Phantom (something that will bum rush you and get closer than 20m). Again, bosses are the much bigger issue, so the fact that it performs impressively against mooks anyway is just icing on the cake.
In this thread you'll find pircures and calculations that support that a Destroyer with a Piranha X @ 30yds do as much damage to an Atlas as any class would with a Mattock X or Harrier I. If the target is closer, the Piranha gets more effective - but any other target and at any longer distance the common Mattock pulls ahead. Again, refer to the added video in the OP to see how easily things are in fact killed when all pellets dont land.
I'd love to see these; I'm guessing they assume no AP ammo and that you are playing with your feet. When I've played the Destroyer on Giant, an Atlas has to be nearly out of targeting range (red reticule) before the pellets actually start to miss in any significant amount. If you are missing at 30m you are really messing up. You can typically down it in 2.5 clips. If you aren't using AP ammo, you are doing it wrong, and poor play is not an argument. I've fought many an Atlas with a Mattock X on my Asari Justicar, and kill them fast it does not.
This still limits the accuracy bonus to 3 out of 21 classes. Furthermore, you are assuming a boss size target that is not around smaller enemies and may not be focusing on you. You can play any class with any weapon to its maximum potential versus that - not only the Piranha. In my book that is situational, and not grounds for "general performance".
You get to choose the class before you play. If something had to be overpowered on every class, nothing would be overpoewred (wait, that's why this is your argument!). Let's just assume that a player isn't intentionally gimping himself and is trying to win. The Piranha is still extremely good on most of the classes. It is very overpowered on 3 of them. The fact that the other classes who love the gun would be sad if it was balanced for the three that currently abuse it is irrelevant. Of course, creative balancing could mitigate that issue, but that's another discussion entirely.
They changed the Piranha already the week before this (or 2 weeks, i dont recall) - they buffed it.
They buffed it a day or two after it came out, it had barely been tested. My point still stands, it's not like they fix every issue that's on their mind each week and then come up with completely new issues next week.
Then by all means, let us know your idea of balance. If you say something like "everyhitng performing equally" you are in for a long fight - EA stated that the in order to make people spend more money in the store in ME3 MP, they deliberately designed weapons to make some more attractive than others.
Balance would mean there are multiple strategic options that are equally viable. It is an ideal which can only be approximated in practice, but so is basically everything else in the world, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get close. It may be too much to ask for every class to be just as strong with the proper strategy, but we should expect it to be close, and we shouldn't resist changes that make it closer. Making a certain strategy much better than others to the point where anyone who is earnestly trying to win would never choose anything else is imbalance. You basically defeat the purpose of having anything else there unless you are intentionally gimping yourself or don't care about winning. Notice I didn't say "all guns equally powerful". I'm talking about "strategies" because you have to take a class, gun, build, mods, and equipment all together when considering the power of a player, and that doens't even account for teams. The Piranha is what breaks some strategies; this doesn't mean it breaks every combination of class, biuld, mod, equipment, and team, but it does mean it is broken.
The fact that the Piranha is the most viable gun on just about any class that can go close range is a smaller, but similar problem. It starts to blur the line between different class strategies as they all become "kill stuff with the piranha and AP ammo with some support abilities on the side".
Modifié par scoopapa1, 03 août 2012 - 09:12 .
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