351 réponses à ce sujet

[ABjerre]

ryoldschool wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...
4*1774=7112
Missed shots 10, each pellet does 221.75 for a total loss of 2217.5 for a percentage loss of 31.17%

1774 * .3117 =  552.95

1774 - 552.95 = 1221.05

Vindicator DPS at X, and the vindicator is not a bad weapon since the last buff.

499.81

Crusader at X

811.07

The lowered DPS does not factor in RoF boosts from class abilities, but even with the missed pellets, it is the second strongest shotgun DPS in the game, with the Claymore sitting at 1648 DPS.

When you figure in clip size and reload speed with reload cancel, the claymore does 833 DPS. The Piranha sustained dps with reload cancel is 1338.

1338 * .3117 = 417.05

1338 - 417.05 = 920.95

So, even with missed pellets, sustained DPS is the highest of all shotguns. These facts cannot be denied no matter how you want to tilt the evidence. Sorry, but it is OP.

Scratch that, i read it as you had 10 hits and not 10 miss. That brings the gun up to Mattock X or Harrier I level. And they still do that trick at much longer ranges. It is no OP.

I'm trying to follow this calculation, and what is death_for_sale actually saying hits the target, and what does not.  So do 30% of the pellets hit, or do 30% of the pellets miss?

30% of the miss on a boss size target, i missread his initial post. At the given range, it does damage equivalent to the Mattck X or Cerberus Harrier I.

Modifié par ABjerre, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:00 .

[Biotic Wolf]

Asebstos wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

Asebstos wrote...
But if its so "terribly ineffective" why is it "your baby"? Clearly its a bad and situational gun, as the OP points out.

I never said that it was a bad gun.

I did however say that it is only effective under startain circumstances and i presented evidence to support my claim. If you disagree, i would appreciate it if you would care do the same.

I can't record vids, but here's a vid of a dude Soloing Gold with it on a character that doesn't get any inherent accuracy bonuses. Definitely has no issue killing things that aren't right in his face, especially not Altases. It just happens that things that are in his face die even faster.

 

well for one he is using the paladin, which IS a pretty good class that goes really well with a light weight high dps weapon. piranha, harrier, all good choices. show me a video of a drell vanguard/adept, cerberus adept/vanguard, human sentinel, turian soldier/sentinal, krogan soldier/sentinel, FQEngineer/infiltrator, and MQEngineer/infiltrator soloing gold with piranha THEN i will believe the piranha is overpowered. i didn't list these classes because they are bad, im making a point that just because one class solos gold with a gun that complements it, in this case paladin and piranhna, does not mean the gun is overpowered. there's more than one factor than the gun to survive, like player skills, equipment, and class. are you saying that if one person soloed gold with a predator, it would be considered overpowered? THEREFORE NERF THE PREDATOR

Modifié par Biotic Wolf, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[ryoldschool]

ABjerre - his quote was "4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game." So 10 outside of hitbox out of (4x8 = 32 ) would be 10/32 = 32% miss.

Just to clarify - in ME2 they said that there are 8 pellets in a shotgun, but they only rendered 4 in-game. Do they render 8 pellets in-game in ME3?

[ABjerre]

ryoldschool wrote...

ABjerre - his quote was "4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game." So 10 outside of hitbox out of (4x8 = 32 ) would be 10/32 = 32% miss.

Just to clarify - in ME2 they said that there are 8 pellets in a shotgun, but they only rendered 4 in-game. Do they render 8 pellets in-game in ME3?

I get that, i corrected my post.

I am pretty sure that there are 8 pellets, but it really doesn't matter, as hit/miss is relative. If there was twice as many pellets fired, there would also be twise as many missed.

[Dream-Maker]

Biotic Wolf wrote...

well for one he is using the paladin, which IS a pretty good class that goes really well with a light weight high dps weapon. piranha, harrier, all good choices. show me a video of a drell vanguard/adept, cerberus adept/vanguard, human sentinel, turian soldier/sentinal, krogan soldier/sentinel, FQEngineer/infiltrator, and MQEngineer/infiltrator soloing gold with piranha THEN i will believe the piranha is overpowered. i didn't list these classes because they are bad, im making a point that just because one class solos gold with a gun that complements it, in this case paladin and piranhna, does not mean the gun is overpowered. there's more than one factor than the gun to survive, like player skills, equipment, and class. are you saying that if one person soloed gold with a predator, it would be considered overpowered? THEREFORE NERF THE PREDATOR

This video doesn't prove the weapon is overpowered because the guy can almost solo gold with it. It proves that a caster type class with no other accuracy bonuses than a smart choke has no problems whatsoever killing targets at mid range with this weapon.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[ryoldschool]

ryoldschool wrote...

ABjerre - his quote was "4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game." So 10 outside of hitbox out of (4x8 = 32 ) would be 10/32 = 32% miss.

Just to clarify - in ME2 they said that there are 8 pellets in a shotgun, but they only rendered 4 in-game. Do they render 8 pellets in-game in ME3?

Well I looked at that picture in Death_for_sale's post up close and counted 29 dots, so I guess they improved the rendering in me3.   I must say however if you were shooting at anything smaller than an Atlas, Brute or Prime you would miss way more than 30% and even more if the target were moving.

[Shadowomega23]

A very well written post ABjerre your facts actually mirror what I have been seeing with the weapon all weekend long. But if anything needs to be done some of the guns do need effective buffs still and their the same ones I said needed major overhauls back before the first mp dlc.

[Rebel_Raven]

Dream-Maker wrote...

Biotic Wolf wrote...

well for one he is using the paladin, which IS a pretty good class that goes really well with a light weight high dps weapon. piranha, harrier, all good choices. show me a video of a drell vanguard/adept, cerberus adept/vanguard, human sentinel, turian soldier/sentinal, krogan soldier/sentinel, FQEngineer/infiltrator, and MQEngineer/infiltrator soloing gold with piranha THEN i will believe the piranha is overpowered. i didn't list these classes because they are bad, im making a point that just because one class solos gold with a gun that complements it, in this case paladin and piranhna, does not mean the gun is overpowered. there's more than one factor than the gun to survive, like player skills, equipment, and class. are you saying that if one person soloed gold with a predator, it would be considered overpowered? THEREFORE NERF THE PREDATOR

This video doesn't prove the weapon is overpowered because the guy can almost solo gold with it. It proves that a caster type class with no other accuracy bonuses than a smart choke has no problems whatsoever killing targets at mid range with this weapon.

The paladin is absurdly more durable than most casters thanks to their shield.

Impress people and use a FQE, or a drell adept.

AND OH MY GOD all those high end mods/consumeables could make near any shotgun a super weapon. Equivalent mods on other weapons could do the same!
Lets not stack the deck here.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .

[Dream-Maker]

Rebel_Raven wrote...

The paladin is absurdly more durable than most casters thanks to their shield.

Impress people and use a FQE, or a drell adept.

Lets not stack the deck here.

Yes that's a fact. But what does this have to do with hitting targets with a weapon though ? You're completely missing the point.

The gun performs the same when I use it on my batarian soldier or ex cerb characters. All that changes is the way I'm gonna expose myself to enemies due to the difference in power sets, that's all.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:19 .

[darkblade]

death_for_sale wrote...

Far be it from me to rain on your parade, OP, but there have been extensive tests and videos showing the accuracy of the Piranha when used correctly. However, I thought I would take some new ones on FBW, for perspective.

This is from the camp counter, in cover, with Marksman.



But, that is still pretty close right?

So I took these from cover at the big box near the LZ.

Marksman again...



and just for the heck of it, Destroyer in Devastator mode from the same distance....



4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game.

Oh, just in case you want a closer look, right click and choose view image. You can even zoom for full size 1080p.

/thread

So marksmen provides to large of a boost? 

[Rebel_Raven]

Dream-Maker wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

The paladin is absurdly more durable than most casters thanks to their shield.

Impress people and use a FQE, or a drell adept.

Lets not stack the deck here.

Yes that's a fact. But what does this have to do with hitting targets with a weapon though ? You're completely missing the point.

I edited. He's using so many high grade mods in his favor it's mind boggling.

[darkrogueninja]

The amount of flawed logic against the piranha is astounding. This sounds like BF3 and the striker, oh wait...

[Jose T99]

gilgamesh v9 wrote...

good post OP! you put a lot of effort into this and I agree with everything you say. the piranha is only good at really close range. It's a high risk/high reward gun. Then again, the Geth Infiltrator is also a HR/HR class and we know how that went...

Yes thank you I agree with you like more than others  playres in the world

[darkrogueninja]

Thank you op. In a world full of ignorance, you are using logic and facts to justify your arguments

[DoubleHell]

Perhaps the ideal usage range for the Piranha is 3m to 6m (like the Reegar), or for taking down Brutes, Ravagers, Primes and clustered mobs?

In a close quarters map like Glacier it is lethal.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

The pattern I showed would have far less hits on a Phantom, and possibly a couple less on a Banshee. At least as far as the Destroyer or GI is concerned. The TS turns this into a precision sniper. Other weapon platform classes have to get in closer, but once they are in close, it is brutally effective. Casters require close range, so it is a fallback weapon for them except in camp spots where enemies are funneled in. Vanguards....let's just say I can't see a Vanguard choosing any other weapon.

Kinda funny, that.

I use it on my shadow now and then, who's quite vanguard-ey as we all know, and, well, I don't use the Pirahna all the time.

See, there's 3 mod choices for me that are important. The Shotgun blade, the piercing mod, and the smart choke.

Shotgun blade is something of a no brainer.
Without the smart choke the Pirahna won't even kill across an average room.
Without the piercing mod, you're kinda screwed fighting guardians at the least.

There's other viable weapons out there for the vanguard that offers benefits over the pirahna.

Sure I can use Armor piercing ammo to cover this, but that means there's no warp ammo, no incendiary ammo, no disruptor ammo.

Also, lets not forget that it's consumeable, so it'll run out eventually.

I don't have finger of god gear/consumeables that make even one pellet deadly as all getout.

[xcrunr1647]

+1

[Rickochet101]

I approve this post.

And from looking at it I'm getting a rough estimate of:

Leave it alone +100 to Nerfers/Trolls -4

[friedricethem0n]

Great job OP. That's what I have been trying to get across to many nerfers.

This gun just doesn't work unless you get up close. And in Gold and Platinum, getting up close and personal is just too risky.

[dream3873]

Keep up the fight against the bronze playing nerfers!

[Kyerea]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Brace yourself OP, here come the theorycrafters and trolls.

But what you don't understand Ash, is that the Lizard Men that run BioWare intentionally make new weapons OP so they can convince us the world is flat due to our brain cells diminishing because we are enjoying video games! DON'T LET THE LIZARD MEN GET TO YOU! WE GOTTA DISRUPT THE LIZARD ILLUMINAT'S PLANS AT MANIPULATION OF THE EARTH'S TRUE DOMINANT SPECIES! *Puts on Tin-Foil Hat*

You guys didn't believe me, but JUDGEMENT DAY IS COMING TOMORROW MAN! JUST WAIT, YOU'LL SEE THAT I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG! BUT I'M NOT FALLING FOR THEIR TRICKS! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


@AJ: Finally nice to see someone has some sense on here. Nice post dude.

Modifié par Kyerea, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:00 .

[Kyerea]

darkblade wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Far be it from me to rain on your parade, OP, but there have been extensive tests and videos showing the accuracy of the Piranha when used correctly. However, I thought I would take some new ones on FBW, for perspective.

This is from the camp counter, in cover, with Marksman.



But, that is still pretty close right?

So I took these from cover at the big box near the LZ.

Marksman again...



and just for the heck of it, Destroyer in Devastator mode from the same distance....



4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game.

Oh, just in case you want a closer look, right click and choose view image. You can even zoom for full size 1080p.

/thread

So marksmen provides to large of a boost? 

Didn't realize the vast majority of players on here/in the community play Turian Soldiers? And with the Pranha only as well? Wow, that sounds terribly OP. I mean, this weapon needs nerfing because one character in the entire game has an ability that makes close-range assault shotguns function past 5 meters. Oh wait! It can't OSK non-bosses? Yet the Claymores and Wraiths can OSK non-bosses? IT'S SO IMBA GUYS!

Modifié par Kyerea, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:05 .