351 réponses à ce sujet

[joker_jack]

[Biotic Wolf]

Dream-Maker wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

The paladin is absurdly more durable than most casters thanks to their shield.

Impress people and use a FQE, or a drell adept.

Lets not stack the deck here.

Yes that's a fact. But what does this have to do with hitting targets with a weapon though ? You're completely missing the point.

The gun performs the same when I use it on my batarian soldier or ex cerb characters. All that changes is the way I'm gonna expose myself to enemies due to the difference in power sets, that's all.

Exposing yourself is a big deal though. you will most likely not just be 1 vs 1 most enemies and probably have to take several down at once. I mean the power sets complements the weapon and the weapon's performance can change with the class, one example is the turians, destroyer, and paladin.  I agree with you when I see in teh video that the piranha is mowing down these guys, but you need to take in account with class and equipment. first we don't know if this guy specced snap freeze for extra damage and armor reduction but if he is, then the pirahna is dealing 10% more damage than usual. we don't know if he specced for weapon damage or power damage. plus snap freeze itself pretty much makes ice sculptures of most targets and can go through walls to freeze them and mop them up with the piranha. 1 vs 1 centurion with only a piranha is no problem. 1 vs 3 centurions depends on your CC abilities and whether you expose yourself or not. a turian soldier specced for marksman and concussive shot but not prox mine with a piranha will have a harder time dealing with 3-5 centurions than a paladin who in this video is specced for ED and snapfreeze which are great CC abilities. the piranha by itself is a good weapon no doubt, i'm just trying the prove that if someone slaps on a video of a guy soloing gold with a pirahna with only one class, its not enough to call teh piranha op. plus gun performance is also based on the class powers as well, such as turian stability or batarian submission net that traps enemies, or n7 destroyer mode that slows you down. true the gun when shot is the same BUT BY ITSELF.  as i said before, class powers affect gun performance whether be it passive like weapon damage or stability, or active such as singularity and stasis. you can't win a game with no powers. how you spec and use your powers affects EVERYTHING

*sorry for the wall of text. i just feel strongly about people having a problem with the piranha when people who use it could just be using pretty good builds. I'm sure that guy in the video could have just done just as good with a different gun. and no not the predator or shuriken, something reasonable. 

Modifié par Biotic Wolf, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .

[randomfoo]

Thanks ABjerre for the post. You won't convince everyone (see thread), but trying to bring some reason can't hurt things.

IMO the Piranha is a good gun that only *really* shines on a few classes (GI, Destroyer, TSol - all weapons specialists). On other classes/casters, it's lightweight and good in CQC, but there are other strong (and oftentimes more useful) options in the same cooldown range (Talon, Hurricane, Paladin, Scorpion...).

Even w/ the accuracy classes, it's only really great if you're aggressive/shooting close-range/or shooting big bosses (why it works great on Platinum). On larger levels like Condor, London, etc) you'd do as well/better w/ a Harrier, Typhoon, Claymore, Wraith, Saber, Black Widow, etc. So sure, Platinum on Glacier it's currently the best game in the gun (something has to be), but only because that scenario plays completely to its strengths.

[Urdnot_SahVaj]

Very nice OP, you brought up very good points. Thank you. +1
Hopefully this will help others understand that the gun alone is fine as is and does the it is clearly meant to do. And only becomes OP on SPECIFIC classes with SPECIFIC builds and SPECIFIC mods and equipment. Not everyone runs this weapon on a GI, TurSol, or Destroyer. Personally, I find it very much useful on the Paladin.

[Rebel_Raven]

death_for_sale wrote...

Kinda funny, that.

I use it on my shadow now and then, who's quite vanguard-ey as we all know, and, well, I don't use the Pirahna all the time.

See, there's 3 mod choices for me that are important. The Shotgun blade, the piercing mod, and the smart choke.

Shotgun blade is something of a no brainer.
Without the smart choke the Pirahna won't even kill across an average room.
Without the piercing mod, you're kinda screwed fighting guardians at the least.

There's other viable weapons out there for the vanguard that offers benefits over the pirahna.

Sure I can use Armor piercing ammo to cover this, but that means there's no warp ammo, no incendiary ammo, no disruptor ammo.

Also, lets not forget that it's consumeable, so it'll run out eventually.

I don't have finger of god gear/consumeables that make even one pellet deadly as all getout.

The Shadow is an anomaly as far as Infiltrators go. Guardians on a Shadow are extremely vulnerable to SS. Additionally, with practice, you can position your barrel past the shield and it will generally ignore it. Even if you have trouble with that method, aim for the gap at the feet.

Yes, AP ammo is great and is a consumable. There is literally no excuse to have no consumables in this game any longer. JEP's are quite inexpensive and provide tons of consumables. This is a common argument of the non-balance group and it just not applicable any longer.

There are other weapon options for Vanguards, definitely, but none that will deliver stagger and brute force damage like this one will without hurting your CD.

Shadows may be an anomaly, but they act a lot like vanguards.

Guardians like turning and blocking my SS with their shields weirdly enough unless someone else is distracting them. They're not as vulnerable as you make them out to be.

It's also not always prudent to use SS on a guardian as opposed to shoot them from cover.

Guardians also don't always travel alone, so while you're busy cramming your shotty into the face of a guardian trying to bypass their shield, they're hitting you with talon rounds, and other people are shooting you. I'd like to be able to kill them from farther away while I'm in cover.

Aiming for the feet's not all that effective.

As far as JEPs go, unless you're constantly buyign them, you'll run out of AP ammo. JEP doesn't always give AP ammo. If you don't use AP ammo, you need the Shredder mod on the pirahna, or else guardians will mess up your day.

And, well, no smart choke, or no blade.

And considering I'm trying to get some better gear, it's not all that sane to keep buying JEPs when it does nothing for your weapons, or characters. Sometimes you need a spectre pack, or a PSP.

All in all the consumeables argument stands coz it's true. Some people actually have something of a climb left to get their weapon levels up.

And, yes, the Pirahna has it's benefits, but it also has it's flaws. There's other weapons to suit preferrences out there.

And that's just talking about Vanguards, and shadows.

Then there's still casters that might actually need something to hurt densely armored targets quickly, or well, husks quickly when their powers aren't hurting an enemy fast enough, or at all.

Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:47 .

[ajburges]

Like that this post articulates the current balance of the Pirana. Problem is when you compare the Pirana to true shotguns other than the Wraith/Claymore.

A Katana has simular problems and that's balanced right? /Sarcasim

[Father_Jerusalem]

death_for_sale wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

ABjerre - his quote was "4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game." So 10 outside of hitbox out of (4x8 = 32 ) would be 10/32 = 32% miss.

Just to clarify - in ME2 they said that there are 8 pellets in a shotgun, but they only rendered 4 in-game. Do they render 8 pellets in-game in ME3?

Well I looked at that picture in Death_for_sale's post up close and counted 29 dots, so I guess they improved the rendering in me3.   I must say however if you were shooting at anything smaller than an Atlas, Brute or Prime you would miss way more than 30% and even more if the target were moving.

The pattern I showed would have far less hits on a Phantom, and possibly a couple less on a Banshee. At least as far as the Destroyer or GI is concerned. The TS turns this into a precision sniper. Other weapon platform classes have to get in closer, but once they are in close, it is brutally effective. Casters require close range, so it is a fallback weapon for them except in camp spots where enemies are funneled in. Vanguards....let's just say I can't see a Vanguard choosing any other weapon.

So, because a Turian Soldier can turn it into an extremely effective weapon, we should nerf the weapon for EVERYONE.. knowing that the Turian Soldier will still, then, be able to make the best use of whatever scrap heap remnant the gun is then?

Yes. That makes sense.

[Rebel_Raven]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

So, because a Turian Soldier can turn it into an extremely effective weapon, we should nerf the weapon for EVERYONE.. knowing that the Turian Soldier will still, then, be able to make the best use of whatever scrap heap remnant the gun is then?

Yes. That makes sense.

Yeah, no kidding. May as well up the weight. that'll show the casters to make the most of the weapon!... wait, they don't! classes that don't care about weight make the most of it!!

[Define Clarity]

Thank you. Finally a logical post that explains THOROUGHLY about why and how it's not overpowered. We need to see more of these threads. +9001

Modifié par Define Clarity, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:53 .

[Major Durza]

death_for_sale wrote...

You can find additional numbers and videos here, OP.

Hahaha holy crap, it's still ALIVE?  Continue to show me that the pellet spread is not a problem at point-blank range, death!  I do not think you have emphasized enough that this gun is great when all the pellets hit!

Back to seriousness, once I derail you here I will necro that thread back to refute arguments tomorrow.  And if you get your nerf tomorrow, I will have at least won a moral victory.  If the Piranha becomes a trinket, then I will be proven right that even a small nerf will be felt drastically.  If it is not nerfed heavily, then Bioware disagrees with you and the rest of your crowd.

In the meantime, I will sift through the responses here and make my points.  I am on page 6 of 8 at the moment.

[Lord Rosario]

death_for_sale wrote...

You can find additional numbers and videos here, OP.

Yup, saw that thread. Numbers point to the Piranha being about equal to the Claymore. While the Piranha has more sustained damage output than the Claymore, it still lacks in accuracy, range, and it leaves you far more open than the Claymore. Even with tons of accuracy mods [that could just be used towards damage on the Claymore instead to make it FAR more damaging than the Piranha] The Claymore is still more accurate. If the Piranha is so op in the hands of a good player, and the Claymore can do just as well [if not better in many cases] in the hands of anyone smarter than a fruit fly, why don't we balance both the Claymore and the Piranha?

[Major Durza]

 
[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

Ya know what pisses me off most about the pirahna situation? People are trying to SCRERW THINGS UP FOR CASTERS by using screaming, bleeding edge equipment and weapon platform classes to illustrate why something is "OP."

At this rate casters will never have a decent gun! Any light weight weapon that can do take more than a block of armor off a boss with a clip will be snatched up by weapon classes, and abused!

It pisses me off so damned much, I'd rather see the classes death is using nerfed for making weapons so broken. [/quote]

Casters have these neat things called powers that they kill stuff with. Weapons are not supposed to be their primary method of killing things.

[/quote]

Yeah, they use weapons to suppliment their powers, though. Ever consider that? And that they might want a weapon that suppliments decently?

Powers vs boss units suck more oft than not, and casters might actually wanna be able to hurt them.

Not everyone is an n7 fury that can make rapid fire biotic explosions to tear up armor, or bosses.[/quote]

So give them an OP close range weapon for those moments when they can't use their powers correctly and let bosses get too close. I see....

[/quote]

Not even Warp+Throw kills bosses before they get to you anymore. Plus, when you are spamming the combo while kiting a Banshee, don't you want to be able to kill that cannibal that is firing away right next to you?


[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]ryoldschool wrote...

[quote]ABjerre wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...
4*1774=7112
Missed shots 10, each pellet does 221.75 for a total loss of 2217.5 for a percentage loss of 31.17%

1774 * .3117 =  552.95

1774 - 552.95 = 1221.05

Vindicator DPS at X, and the vindicator is not a bad weapon since the last buff.

499.81

Crusader at X

811.07

The lowered DPS does not factor in RoF boosts from class abilities, but even with the missed pellets, it is the second strongest shotgun DPS in the game, with the Claymore sitting at 1648 DPS.

When you figure in clip size and reload speed with reload cancel, the claymore does 833 DPS. The Piranha sustained dps with reload cancel is 1338.

1338 * .3117 = 417.05

1338 - 417.05 = 920.95

So, even with missed pellets, sustained DPS is the highest of all shotguns. These facts cannot be denied no matter how you want to tilt the evidence. Sorry, but it is OP.
[/quote]

Scratch that, i read it as you had 10 hits and not 10 miss. That brings the gun up to Mattock X or Harrier I level. And they still do that trick at much longer ranges. It is no OP.

[/quote]

I'm trying to follow this calculation, and what is death_for_sale actually saying hits the target, and what does not.  So do 30% of the pellets hit, or do 30% of the pellets miss?

[/quote]

30% miss on a destroyer at around 35 Meters. In other words, 70% hit.

[/quote] 
 
Again, you demonstrating how poweful this gun is on weapons platforms is SO riveting!
Did not yet address that it DPS's a Mattock at that range, buddy.  The Mattock and that it can do it over longer ranges with its pinpoint accuracy.


[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]ryoldschool wrote...

[quote]ryoldschool wrote...

ABjerre - his quote was "4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game." So 10 outside of hitbox out of (4x8 = 32 ) would be 10/32 = 32% miss.

Just to clarify - in ME2 they said that there are 8 pellets in a shotgun, but they only rendered 4 in-game. Do they render 8 pellets in-game in ME3?[/quote]

Well I looked at that picture in Death_for_sale's post up close and counted 29 dots, so I guess they improved the rendering in me3.   I must say however if you were shooting at anything smaller than an Atlas, Brute or Prime you would miss way more than 30% and even more if the target were moving.

[/quote]

The pattern I showed would have far less hits on a Phantom, and possibly a couple less on a Banshee. At least as far as the Destroyer or GI is concerned. The TS turns this into a precision sniper. Other weapon platform classes have to get in closer, but once they are in close, it is brutally effective. Casters require close range, so it is a fallback weapon for them except in camp spots where enemies are funneled in. Vanguards....let's just say I can't see a Vanguard choosing any other weapon.

[/quote] 

Themed builds, my friend.  I only use the Piranha on N7 classes myself.  I tend to favor the Talon for Vanguards.  Disciple for a bit longer range, and the stagger.  Eviscerator or Wraith when I really want to hit and take cover.  This gun has a niche, and that happens to be "Stand in the open and blow things away". take away "Blow things away" and this gun's niche becomes "Stand in the open, and do decent damage on level with the Scimitar!"  


[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

[quote]death_for_sale wrote...

The pattern I showed would have far less hits on a Phantom, and possibly a couple less on a Banshee. At least as far as the Destroyer or GI is concerned. The TS turns this into a precision sniper. Other weapon platform classes have to get in closer, but once they are in close, it is brutally effective. Casters require close range, so it is a fallback weapon for them except in camp spots where enemies are funneled in. Vanguards....let's just say I can't see a Vanguard choosing any other weapon.

[/quote]
Kinda funny, that.

I use it on my shadow now and then, who's quite vanguard-ey as we all know, and, well, I don't use the Pirahna all the time. 

See, there's 3 mod choices for me that are important. The Shotgun blade, the piercing mod, and the smart choke. 

Shotgun blade is something of a no brainer.
Without the smart choke the Pirahna won't even kill across an average room.
Without the piercing mod, you're kinda screwed fighting guardians at the least.

There's other viable weapons out there for the vanguard that offers benefits over the pirahna.

Sure I can use Armor piercing ammo to cover this, but that means there's no warp ammo, no incendiary ammo, no disruptor ammo.

Also, lets not forget that it's consumeable, so it'll run out eventually.

I don't have finger of god gear/consumeables that make even one pellet deadly as all getout. [/quote]

The Shadow is an anomaly as far as Infiltrators go. Guardians on a Shadow are extremely vulnerable to SS. Additionally, with practice, you can position your barrel past the shield and it will generally ignore it. Even if you have trouble with that method, aim for the gap at the feet.

Yes, AP ammo is great and is a consumable. There is literally no excuse to have no consumables in this game any longer. JEP's are quite inexpensive and provide tons of consumables. This is a common argument of the non-balance group and it just not applicable any longer.

There are other weapon options for Vanguards, definitely, but none that will deliver stagger and brute force damage like this one will without hurting your CD. 

[/quote] 

I've got one!  I bought enough JEP's to fill my medigels up to 80-something, and I got a total of 6 AP Ammos!  2 of them were III!
So yea, AP ammo is the rarest of ammo types, and I run out frequently.
Furthermore, Guardians like to turn when you shadow strike them, so it hits the shield.  And shooting at their feet may make a pellet hit at point blank, but their shield will take enough of the shot for it to take more than a full clip to kill it.  I forgot to mention that it causes a stagger, which makes that window to fit 1/8 pellets need to go through move very rapidly indeed, firing a shotgun at a guardian without AP mod is just not viable.  Plus, they are rarely alone.

[quote]Rebel_Raven wrote...

[quote]Father_Jerusalem wrote...

So, because a Turian Soldier can turn it into an extremely effective weapon, we should nerf the weapon for EVERYONE.. knowing that the Turian Soldier will still, then, be able to make the best use of whatever scrap heap remnant the gun is then?

Yes. That makes sense.

[/quote]
Yeah, no kidding. May as well up the weight. that'll show the casters to make the most of the weapon!... wait, they don't! classes that don't care about weight make the most of it!![/quote] 

I haven't seen a TS with a Piranha in a PUG lobby yet.
And yea, weight increase would address a problem that is not there.

[Major Durza]

Kyerea wrote...

darkblade wrote...

death_for_sale wrote...

Far be it from me to rain on your parade, OP, but there have been extensive tests and videos showing the accuracy of the Piranha when used correctly. However, I thought I would take some new ones on FBW, for perspective.

This is from the camp counter, in cover, with Marksman.



But, that is still pretty close right?

So I took these from cover at the big box near the LZ.

Marksman again...



and just for the heck of it, Destroyer in Devastator mode from the same distance....



4 shots on that one, I count 10 pellets outside of any boss hitbox in the game.

Oh, just in case you want a closer look, right click and choose view image. You can even zoom for full size 1080p.

/thread

So marksmen provides to large of a boost?

Didn't realize the vast majority of players on here/in the community play Turian Soldiers? And with the Pranha only as well? Wow, that sounds terribly OP. I mean, this weapon needs nerfing because one character in the entire game has an ability that makes close-range assault shotguns function past 5 meters. Oh wait! It can't OSK non-bosses? Yet the Claymores and Wraiths can OSK non-bosses? IT'S SO IMBA GUYS!

Forgot to add this one in, but I have to add sarcasm.

Wow, look how ACCURATE this is with every possible accuracy bonus in the game! Better pack up this thread, This gun is overpowered because the Turian Soldier can give this gun full DPS at 30 meters, if we want to stop seeing Turian Soldiers with Piranhas filling up every lobby, a plague many times worse than the Missle Glitch, this gun must be nerfed so that it is roughly on the Scimitar's level with every buff in the game. I mean, you guys have stacks and stacks of shotgun amp III's and AP Ammo III's and IV's, why are you not using them? The idea that people could run out of these is absurd, and anyone who says otherwise is a troll, and I will brand them as such!

/end sarcasm.

[SavagelyEpic]

+1

This is absurd. The Piranha is fine as it is, and if a minority doesn't like it they can do their own private Platinum matches where the only allowable class and loadout is a 0/0/0/0/0 Drell Adept with a Predator.

Most Piranha-users I've seen die horribly every wave and score last. Ah, must be the very epitome of overpoweredness.

[Eelectrica]

Agreed, Pirahna is not overpowered. Should be left as is.
If they want to nerf it, they could roll it back to its initial release stats I guess. But to go further would be to make it useless.

[DungeonHoek]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

+1

This is absurd. The Piranha is fine as it is, and if a minority doesn't like it they can do their own private Platinum matches where the only allowable class and loadout is a 0/0/0/0/0 Drell Adept with a Predator.

Most Piranha-users I've seen die horribly every wave and score last. Ah, must be the very epitome of overpoweredness.

The only people I see do well with that gun tend to be people who are skilled/versitile players to begin with, so it wouldn't make much difference what you handed them they would make it work.

But yeah, you and the others are correct. The gun is not overpowered, its an auto-shot gun that does its job at a shot guns proper range. For any one of us that has played any good shooters for any length of time we all know shotguns are lethal at close range, and still rather dangerous at medium range though they start losing effectiveness and become useless at long range.

Personally even at level X I don't like using it, it puts me in a very uncomfortable range with enemies that could get me killed and very fast too. Even on the Destroyer. Who's "power" is all in his shields. And with that bullet spread, you have to hit something very up close to get full benefit.

And I don't care what anyone says, a few augments which can tighten that spread, some of which are temporary for a few seconds and or one game does not make the weapon itself over powered as a standard.

[COLZ7R]

Good post op, well thought out and even pictures for the slightlly dimmer souls!!
Shame it wont make a difference to some that already have decided it needs "balanced" just highlights the problem with some "balancers" very clearlly. they dont care what anyone else thinks. they will never see that it will not even be close to "op" with the vast majority of players.
Just wondering what happens when people run out of ap ammo and shotgun amps?

[realgundam]

This weapon is the first shotgun that feels like one. Weak far away and op at close range, just like it should. All the other Shoty less the claymore are way too weak.
One way to balance it is to reduce shot per reload

[godlike13]

ABjerre wrote...

The Case
These last few weeks, a lot of talk has been going around about a particular gun: The Piranha
It stands out in its quality of very high rate of fire, large clip, low weight and high damage. So much in fact, that it seems that some people have blinded themselves looking only at its good qualities, and demand a ner.. rebalancing of the weapon.

What these people seem to forget is that its good qualities come at one particularly bad one: At arms lenght, you cannot hit the broad side of a barn with it.

In fact, its accuracy is so bad that it perfectly outweighs everything good about the gun, and lands it at a solid "okay" weapon rating overall, as its high damage: 88,7 (or a whopping 1774 damage per second) is calculated on the assumption that all pellets hit.

The Experiment
In comes the relentless horde of re-balancers: "You can spec for accuracy and put a smart choke on it! That makes you able to frikkin snipe with it." If you can show me someone actually sniping with this weapon, i would be very pleased, but untill you do, allow me to show you what it does at range:

• Character: Destroyer w. accuracy spec and devastaror mode engaged = 25% more accuracy.
• Weapon: Piranha X with Large Caliber Barrel V and Smart Choke V = 50% more accuracy.
• Total: 75% more accuracy compared to the weapons base value.
• No ammo powers, no amps were used.
• All shots taken from cover.

I took a few screenshots on FB:W against the Geth, as that is something most people can relate to:

The Proof
The distance to the end wall is 24 meters, anyone with a sniper rifle will confirm that, and if not, i have snaps of that too. This means that the distance to the target is probably closer to 20 meters, but lets call it 22 for good measure. As you can see, the outline of the target does only cover 5 out of the 8 pellet holes in the wall behind him. Lets call it 6 hits on a good day, or 75% effectiveness @ 22 meters.




Next up is 30 meters:
It is a bit hard to see the holes in the wall, but the are most definantly there. In fact there are a lot more there than in the target - only 3 out of 8 pellets hit at this distance. With a bit of luck that could have been 4, so 50% effectiveness on a good day. By now, most AR's can do the job a lot better.



At 40 meters it wouldn't matter if i took a screen shot. It would only feature a target with full health, as at that distance, it would be more effective to take out the bullets and throw them.

The Conclusion
The only rational conclusion must be that there are no grounds for ajusting this weapon.

Remember that this was done with the second highest possible accuracy increase (Tsol gets slightly more) - on all other classes, these numbers could practically be cut in half(!), meaning that the Piranha is a terribly ineffective weapon outside of a set of very specific circumstances, and that there is no reason, besides some players personal oppinions, for ner... balancing it.

Doing so would render it completely useless, as the player already has to be near point blanc range in order to reap the benefits of the weapon, and by doing so is putting himself at high risk of becoming more of a liability than an asset to the team.

A little quiz
To finish up here, would anyone like to guess how many shots it takes to kill that Pyro in
the second picture? All relevant info is in the post already.

It took 5,
(FIVE!) well aimed shots.

The difficulty? Bronze.

TL;DR
The Piranha is useless @ +25 meters even with all accuracy mods. Nerfers have no case at all.

edit: Second highest accuracy increase. All shot were taken from cover.

Bravo!

[Dream-Maker]

Biotic Wolf wrote...

Exposing yourself is a big deal though. you will most likely not just be 1 vs 1 most enemies and probably have to take several down at once. I mean the power sets complements the weapon and the weapon's performance can change with the class, one example is the turians, destroyer, and paladin.  I agree with you when I see in teh video that the piranha is mowing down these guys, but you need to take in account with class and equipment. first we don't know if this guy specced snap freeze for extra damage and armor reduction but if he is, then the pirahna is dealing 10% more damage than usual. we don't know if he specced for weapon damage or power damage. plus snap freeze itself pretty much makes ice sculptures of most targets and can go through walls to freeze them and mop them up with the piranha. 1 vs 1 centurion with only a piranha is no problem. 1 vs 3 centurions depends on your CC abilities and whether you expose yourself or not. a turian soldier specced for marksman and concussive shot but not prox mine with a piranha will have a harder time dealing with 3-5 centurions than a paladin who in this video is specced for ED and snapfreeze which are great CC abilities. the piranha by itself is a good weapon no doubt, i'm just trying the prove that if someone slaps on a video of a guy soloing gold with a pirahna with only one class, its not enough to call teh piranha op. plus gun performance is also based on the class powers as well, such as turian stability or batarian submission net that traps enemies, or n7 destroyer mode that slows you down. true the gun when shot is the same BUT BY ITSELF.  as i said before, class powers affect gun performance whether be it passive like weapon damage or stability, or active such as singularity and stasis. you can't win a game with no powers. how you spec and use your powers affects EVERYTHING

*sorry for the wall of text. i just feel strongly about people having a problem with the piranha when people who use it could just be using pretty good builds. I'm sure that guy in the video could have just done just as good with a different gun. and no not the predator or shuriken, something reasonable. 

Sure you make good points and I think I can agree with most of what you said. However I was just pointing to the fact that hitting and killing targets at mid range is possible and efficient with this gun even with just a smart choke mod. Not that this weapon is OP because this guy can almost solo Gold with it on the Paladin. Yes equipment is gonna make kills faster. Yes CC abilities are gonna make targets easier to hit. That doesn't change my point.

Also the Paladin is indeed great at CCing but other classes with good CC powers are not rare by far. Overload, Ballistic blades or basically any power with built-in force is enough to stagger most enemies for a bit and help you landing your shots. BTW the comparaison with the TS doesn't really stand, being able to fire at way longer range is making him less exposed. But here I'm talking about power dependant classes anyway, it's not a secret to anyone that the Turian Soldier, GI and Destroyer can make many weapons awesome with their bonuses.

Anyway, whether that makes the weapon overpowered or not I don't really know. What I know for sure though is that on my cooldown dependant builds the weapon is vastly superior to all other weapons of the same type and sometimes of higher rarity.

The Wraith and the Talon are both great weapons, but now I find no reason not to use the Piranha instead. They have better accuracy yes, but that hardly matters. I can aim rougly at the middle of an enemy with the piranha, maintain the trigger for some time and have the same result with less effort at mid range than carefully aiming my Talon or Wraith at the head for 1, 2 or 3 shots. And on top of that I do way superior DPS at close range and against bosses AND I can have a better cooldown since I can't have my URs maxed yet.

Claymore and Reegar can compete with the Piranha in terms of DPS but these weapons are never going to give me the same cooldown. And as inaccurate as the Piranha can be, it is at least very usable at mid range which isn't the case of the Reegar.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:25 .

[Blackguard82]

Agreed, the piranha doesn't need a nerf. Leave the guns alone! Don't like a a gun? Then don't use it!

[ASmoothCriminalx]

wait one second before people decide to nerf the piranha, it's not better than the reegar. it's a great weapon with accuracy and close-range classes but it is still outclassed by the reegar with weapon damage specced classes. If the piranha is to get nerfed, then the reegar must as well. For the record, I don't advocate either one being rebalanced.

[Arppis]

Good job.