15 réponses à ce sujet

[BelgarathMTH]

Hi, so, I just started a game where I am trying to get to know the 'evil' characters in the game, and just generally try to break out of the rut of the same characters I've always taken into my party for the past 12 years, just because I'm 'good'.

I have no intention of actually playing evil or making evil choices. I will simply SK all 'evil' characters to 'chaotic neutral'. I want to get to know them by actually 'talking' to them and going through their dialogues, not looking at an arbitrary 'alignment' label from the flawed D&D alignment system, nor being at the mercy of the flawed BG reputation system.

Right now, I have myself as a sorceress, with Ano (with whom I will fall in love), Viconia, Jaheira, Korgan, and Yoshimo.

I might be interested in getting to know Edwin for the first time, but I have no idea where to find him. Also, I'm not sure who to give up in favor of a second arcanist.

I have a question about npc berserkers. I activated it once on Minsc in the portal room of Irry's dungeon, and that almost got us all killed. He started attacking and chasing Imoen, which took out two party members as I had to manage her running and defending herself from him while the remaining three of us dealt with the portals and radiant mephits. A very nail-biting battle, that almost cost me the chance to even consider entering this run in no-reload.

The question is, now that I have Korgan, will he also lose control if I activate his berserk ability? With his throwing axes and five pips in it, he would be exponentially more deadly than Minsc if I lost control of him. Probably a party wipe, ending any no-reload.

Also, with Viconia and Korgan in my party, will they eventually try to kill Anomen or any other good characters? I already know that Keldorn will kill Viconia and therefore cannot be in this party. Also, since I am playing female, I may be rivalling Viconia for Ano's affections. Will this cause problems, especially since I intend to have him pass his knighthood?

And, one more, if you don't mind. I'm quite sure that Korgan has a timer to go to the graveyard and attempt a battle with a very strong undead. Just how short is his fuse with that?

If you can, please try to answer these questions with a minimum of spoiling. I am already seeing a delightful number of dialogues that I have never seen before.

[Krazy Solo]

Edwin can be found after completing the Thieves Stronghold. Since he is an essential NPC of completing it.

Far as Korgans Berserk Rage ablity it is different than Minsc. Minsc Rage causes Minsc to become confused in the process occasionally. Korgan rage does nothing like that. It is safe to use in a party or solo. After 10 rounds he will lose any bonus hp and take damage equal to it, then become fatigued for few rounds.

Far as I recall only time Anomen tries to kill anyone is if he fails to become a Knight, becoming Lawful Good. If he becomes Chaotic Neutral Anomen goes off the deep end with several NPC not sure who.

[morbidest2]

Edwin is found on 3rd flr of MaeVar's Thieves House
Korgan doesn't have the berserking problems that Minsc does. Korgan and Aerie are a poor match, but he has a soft spot for Mazzy. Viconia also drives Aerie more nuts than she already is.
Keldorn will try to kill Vicky every 24 hours, but you can reload your way around this until you get to ToB. Though I wonder if Keldorn will attack Vicky if you'ved changed her alignment, or maybe it's scripted in? Will a bug arise?? Minsc and Edwin will also have lethal issues.
I suspect that the sidequest timer is universal, at around 3 days.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The obvious choice to kick out in favor of Edwin is one of your many divine casters. You said you want to try the evil guys, so it makes little sense to give Viconia the boot, and Anomen is needed for his kissing skills, leaving Jaheira.

Anomen (failed) is a very different character though from Sir Anomen (and the romance is supposed to be different too), so if you want to try out the non-good guys, there is another one.

Minsc is not a real berserker. He's just a bit funny in the head. Men who are properly trained in the art of releasing their inner animals (berserkers and barbarians) will not lose control over themselves during their enrage - in fact, their angry alter egos are protected from most mind-altering (and other) effects, making a dwarven berserker an insanely tough tank.

The only NPC-only romance in the normal game is between Haer'Dalis and Aerie. Viconia is not interested in chauvinistic clerics of Helm. Their world views are completely incompatible. So she will not try to get between you.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 31 juillet 2012 - 02:48 .

[ussnorway]

Viconia will make snide sexual remarks about Valygar but it won’t come to blows... note that making her non-evil will affect the ‘Turn’.

IMO Cernd with Viconia or Edwina is some of the best banter.

p.s. The fuse is short indeed... I recommend stealth if you want to do this early.

[silenceall]

Another thing to consider if you change Vic's alignment via SK is whether or not Turn Undead will function as intended. Good/Neutral clerics turn or destroy undead. Evil clerics turn or assume control over undead. Many players like to use evil clerics so they can have undead armies as cannon fodder.

[BelgarathMTH]

Thanks, everybody, this is all very helpful info that may help me avoid disaster by attempting an ethically mixed party. I really don't have the stomach to play myself as evil, and I'm not sure I have the heart to sabotage Ano's knighthood. LOL. I may not be cut out for this.

I know I said I wanted to minimize spoilers, but is it possible to turn Viconia to good through dialogue without romancing her? Such that altering her alignment could cause problems? I don't really need her to control undead, I just want to get to know her character.

My main concern is npc's suddenly leaving in the middle of dangerous situations. Could someone tell me at what reputation level they will leave? Maybe I can keep it low enough by avoiding giving money and stuff like that - e.g. the girl in the slaver ship could be told that we have no money for her.

I'm a total noob at managing these people. LOL. I may not be able to pull this off, but it's interesting to try.

[corey_russell]

In SoA, evil characters will leave at 19 Reputation.
Evil characters do not leave for reputation reasons once you in the Throne of Bhaal portion of the game.
Interestingly enough, good characters seem to vary on what low rep they will leave at. I once slaughtered the government people where Tolgerias is, due to a failed pick-pocket, and the good characters would leave at different reputation levels.

Tip: If your reputation is dangerously high and not sure how to lower it, go to spellhold! This way you can slayer change and lower your rep as much as it needed (-2 rep per Slayer change)

Modifié par corey_russell, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Tiglath-Pileser]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

My main concern is npc's suddenly leaving in the middle of dangerous situations. Could someone tell me at what reputation level they will leave? Maybe I can keep it low enough by avoiding giving money and stuff like that - e.g. the girl in the slaver ship could be told that we have no money for her.

Evil NPCs will leave when your reputation exceeds 18 (so it has to be either 19 or 20). Hiring Viconia will cause 2 point drop in reputation, so if you are at max rep, you will get a safe 18. When you tell her to leave, you will regain those 2 points. If you refrain from getting any more, you are safe.

There is a better way, though. Just 'accidentally' kill an innocent (commoner for example) when at 20 reputation and it will drop to 10, leaving you on a safe ground pretty much for the whole game.

There is a "happy patch" tweak mod that prevents your party members from leaving you regardless of reputation, so you might as well install it and stop worrying about it, if you can't get yourself to do evil things or not doing good things.

[Gate70]

Happy patch is a better option than changing alignments, you can then play exactly as you would before, believe it is a part of BG2 Tweaks.

If you don't want to add that there are plenty of ways to keep reputation low in SOA. Your comment about not collecting rewards is a good neutral option for example. Here's my recollection (no guarantees!)

- Slayer change -2. Best late game choice as no consequences if you change back quickly. If you can do Spellhold sooner rather than later (another benefit below) this is available mid game too.
- Viconia drops it by 2. Best early game choice.
- The graveyard kidnapping has -2 if you collect the ransom, easy early game option.
(Only way to get the silver pantaloons too)
- Skip anything that normally adds reputation. e.g. talking to the circus guard after solving the problem.
- Killing an innocent. I find it hard to RP this even in an evil run but each to their own.
- Steal from a shop you won't visit again. I haven't tried this for years.
- There is an evil option in Trademeet for -1. Only did that once to try it.
- Demand more money from the Umar Hills Mayor. Think that avoids a reputation increase.

Edwin is worth hanging on to for his "quest" as it gives the other NPC's chance to taunt him.
(note, save the game before speaking to Salvanas in the Copper Coronet with him if he's not himself).
Viconia will only change alignment (in TOB too) if the correct romance dialogue is followed.
If you haven't kept Yoshimo before I'd suggest doing Spellhold as soon as you feel comfortable rather than doing everything else first (saying any more gets into major spoiler territory).

[BelgarathMTH]

Thanks again, everybody. If Viconia's change of heart is romance dependent, that won't be happening in this run. I know already that Yoshimo is a temp - the first time I ever played 13 or so years ago, I was *very* upset that I had no redemption option. I'd like to carry him to Spellhold, but I'm worried about surviving the big battle that way.

I had an LOL, facepalm moment while attempting to face the Grave King, or whatever his name is, hoping he had the book Korgan wants. My intial strategy was to use a whole bunch of holy smite, as Korgan is the only one with a +3 weapon (Stonefire - I wanted him to use Azuredge, but, whoops.) LOL - soooo, it turns out Holy Smite damages Korgan and Vicki. Hilariously, Viconia has the spell in vanilla gog.com BG2, so she can suicide by holy smite if she wants. I got the GK finally by using haste and giving Korgan a potion of (dexterity).

I'm really enjoying this. I'm absolutely terrified at attempting the Graveyard District this early in the game. The feeling of fear and horror and not trusting my companions is actually making the game like new to me again.

I figured out another way to use SK to solve any reputation problems - I can just use it to lower reputation if necessary! That way, I can leave everybody's alignment label alone.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

Thanks again, everybody. If Viconia's change of heart is romance dependent, that won't be happening in this run. I know already that Yoshimo is a temp - the first time I ever played 13 or so years ago, I was *very* upset that I had no redemption option. I'd like to carry him to Spellhold, but I'm worried about surviving the big battle that way.

The easiest way of making him completely useless in the ambush against you is to dualclass him right before entering spellhold.
(and take his equipment, of course)

hoping he had the book Korgan wants.

Korgan first wants to go into the south wing of the really big crypt (where the vampires are residing as well), then to the government district and finally to the Copper Coronet/roof thereof.

[corey_russell]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
My intial strategy was to use a whole bunch of holy smite, as Korgan is the only one with a +3 weapon 

Just thought I'd mention that in the early going, and you're needing +3 weapons like against the Crypt King, you should be using the enchant weapon spell. It's pretty cheap, can be obtained early (Waukeen's Promenade spell merchants) and only requires 1 level 4 mage slot for each weapon you want to acquire. The created weapons last for 24 hours. Note that you can GIVE the weapons to other characters! Also mages should probably using things like MMM which hit as +5 but is ranged so they can keep their distance.

[BelgarathMTH]

@HT - thanks for the advice. I unfortunately had to "cheat" and look up the "how" and "where" of Korgan's quest to finish it. I was using my invisibility spell in cooperation with Yoshimo to have Yoshimo scout ahead in the tomb, together with my fireballs whenever he found undead. When he got to the key room, he saw a mummy and two skelly warriors, and an empty treasure crypt. So, my natural impulse would have been to turn around, get out of that horrible place, and keep looking. Only by looking up the quest was I able to realize that I needed to get Korgan close enough to see that particular empty treasure cyrpt in order to continue the quest. I would have never found it, would have kept running into undead far above our level, and would have gotten very, very frustrated without the internet.

@Corey, unfortunately, I am our only arcanist at the moment, and I am a sorceress. I suppose I could have invested in whatever create magic weapon scrolls I could find and then *try* to time their use, but I have way more to worry about. I don't think that strategy would help much. I settled on using Korgan and his Stonefire Axe together with concentrated healing and support magic. No MMM for me, as I can't justify replacing haste and fireball with it.

Here is another really funny (to me) LOL realization - I am smiling and having trouble not bursting into laughter as I write about it! Korgan, to me, is a huge analogue and reminder of Yosimite Sam from the Bugs Bunny cartoons! Several times as I went through that tomb and got his dialogue, I thought of Sam jumping up and down, stomping his feet, steam coming out his ears, with a constant stream of invective: "RAAAASafrackamohkafrillladumadingdomagohma fricka fracka!!!" STUPID rabbit!"  "I'M the meanest, rootinest, tootinest axe-throwin' hombre to ever roam Athkatla!"  LOL. Now, my nickname from now on for Korgan is "Sam".

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:57 .

[ussnorway]

FYI Viconia can go neutral (not good) from romance dialogue but I don’t recommend having a rep above 15 if you want to travel with evil characters because Yes they won’t leave on their own until 19 however if you try to park them somewhere or they get forced out of your party by for instance petrify spells then they are likely to walk off in a huff.

Spoiler;
One good rp way to lose 3 rep points is by handing Valygar over to the wizards (after he opens the spear for you of course) but note that having good characters like Mazzy or Jaheira with you will stop the exchange from happening & also note that Valygar Corthala is out of the game from this point... yes, you get to keep his gear.

[BelgarathMTH]

UssN, thanks for the info. Since I don't really agree with how the BG rep system works, I will probably just use SK to manage rep, rather than to commit evil acts.