1098 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

it struck me that a method of overwhelming the Reaper fleet has already been exploited in a modern military exercise to great effect. In an exercise pitting a low tech force against a carrier battlegroup, the Opfor commander achieved victory by swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers.

Could not this same idea be extrapolated to the mass effect universe? Take many small, lightly armored and fast fighters and frigates, arm them with thanix cannons and mob the Reapers. Sure many of them would be shot down, but the Reaper capital ships would be swarmed with the effective firepower of several hundred dreadnaughts, without being presented with the relatively slow and large target a dreadnaught usually displays.

Other methods could be viable of course. Opinions on this and other conventional victory suggestions?

EDIT 1&3 : fixed typos and posting link to wargame where this technique was used. funny, the Admiral in charge's position lines up pretty well with certain defeatists in the game and on these forums... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002 This was also the strategy used by the French Navy during the 19th century. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeune_%C3%89cole

EDIT 2:  Another way to increase total numbers for these swarm attacks would be to equip civillian vessels with Thanix weaponry, particularly sporting craft. These could very well be better suited to this type of assault as civilian craft designed purely for speed and maneuverability but lacking armor seem better suited to getting close and evading fire than an equivalent military fighter, designed to be able to take at least a modicum of punishment. Think of a Nissan GTR versus a Humvee or jeep for a good parallel.

EDIT 3: made this the conventional victory support thread since we're discussing a bit more than just my original tactic.

Modifié par Skirata129, 06 août 2012 - 02:21 .

[Taboo]

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

[Skirata129]

you failed to address my suggestion considering the Codex specifically states that four dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper capital ship. Meaning their combined firepower, not all four running into it, so size doesn't really matter. just how much force you bring to bear.

[DocGriffin]

Yeah, just throw antimatter cannons on pyjaks and victory is in the bag!

[DirtyPhoenix]

I'd just clone Shepard and make ships out of his/her body parts. xD Much better and also proven by ingame evidence!

Modifié par pirate1802, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:14 .

[Taboo]

Skirata129 wrote...

you failed to address my suggestion considering the Codex specifically states that four dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper capital ship. Meaning their combined firepower, not all four running into it, so size doesn't really matter. just how much force you bring to bear.

It takes two years to create a Dreadnought because they're so complex.

The Crucible was designed to be simple and efficient.

You are going to lose if you don't use the Crucible.

[ediskrad327]

yeah that will work on millions of reapers sure
/sarcasm

[Skirata129]

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

[RvB SPARTAN038]

DocGriffin wrote...

Yeah, just throw antimatter cannons on pyjaks and victory is in the bag!

This guy should get a medal and a statue. He just solved the Reaper problem.

[Taboo]

There aren't even that many Dreadnoughts dude. It's stated in game.

I don't even think there are half that many.

YOU AREN'T GOING TO WIN BECAUSE IT ISN'T FEASIBLE IN ANY CONTEXT.

[Alfa Kilo]

I think the trouble is that the Reaper forces outnumber the United Fleet, no?

[Skirata129]

Taboo-XX wrote...

There aren't even that many Dreadnoughts dude. It's stated in game.

I don't even think there are half that many.

YOU AREN'T GOING TO WIN BECAUSE IT ISN'T FEASIBLE IN ANY CONTEXT.

I WASN'T SAYING TO BUILD DREADNAUGHTS DUDE. read the OP, jesus.

[Taboo]

And I'm telling you you can't touch them.

At all.

That's the point.

There is nothing you can do.

Only the combined force of four Dreadnoughts will really do anything and that's difficult to do.

Bioware has stated that it is impossible without using the Crucible.

Accept this and move on.

[yukon fire]

If Taffy 3 can win we should be able to win.

[AlanC9]

The only problem with this plan is that Reapers can just go FTL and outrun anything you've got. Why would the Reaper sit there and let you swarm it?

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:16 .

[dirty console peasant]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

And how many times were you told that going through the Omega-4 relay was a suicide mission.  I never lost a soul (even your waifu, who I find to be quite annoying "I was engineered to be perfect")

[Skirata129]

My suggestion was to arm fighters and frigates with a dreadnaughts main guns, thanix cannons to be specific. Considering that Thanix cannons are stated in the codex as being able to bypass the Reapers kinetic barriers, this method would allow you to hit the Reaper fleet with the firepower of dreadnaughts, WITHOUT USING DREADNAUGHTS.

[AlanC9]

OK, let's assume that the Reapers are stupid and want to fight it out. How many fighters and frigates do you lose while closing to attack range?

[andy6915]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

And how many times were you told that going through the Omega-4 relay was a suicide mission.  I never lost a soul (even your waifu, who I find to be quite annoying "I was engineered to be perfect")

Difference: That is Shepard doing the impossible with a crew lead personally led by him/her. Shepard doing the impossible doesn't mean the rest of the galaxy doing the impossible. The 2 scenarios can't be compared.

Modifié par andy69156915, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:18 .

[Taboo]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

And how many times were you told that going through the Omega-4 relay was a suicide mission.  I never lost a soul (even your waifu, who I find to be quite annoying "I was engineered to be perfect")

That would be a logical fallacy. Nice try and NICE ad hominem.

Suicide Mission =/= War with the Reapers

Entirely new variables, entirely different probabilities.

[dirty console peasant]

andy69156915 wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

And how many times were you told that going through the Omega-4 relay was a suicide mission.  I never lost a soul (even your waifu, who I find to be quite annoying "I was engineered to be perfect")

Difference: That is Shepard doing the impossible with a crew lead personally led by him/her. Shepard doing the impossible doesn't mean the rest of the galaxy doing the impossible. The 2 scenarios can't be compared.

SO GIVE SHEPARD COMMAND OF THE FLEETS.  It really is that easy,  would add a nice SM like final fight as well.

[Skirata129]

probably a significant number. but the overall loss of manpower and material would be drastically less than closing with a dreadnaught. And the Reapers are determined to stand and fight, as the clearly do when attacking earth. When they realized that they were losing capital ships and destroyers fast and beat a retreat, it would turn into a cat and mouse game. Consider that this would be a complete reversal of how a Reaper invasion normally goes.

[AlanC9]

Skirata129 wrote...

probably a significant number. but the overall loss of manpower and material would be drastically less than closing with a dreadnaught. And the Reapers are determined to stand and fight, as the clearly do when attacking earth.

When they're winning, of course they stand and fight. Why wouldn't they?

When they realized that they were losing capital ships and destroyers fast and beat a retreat, it would turn into a cat and mouse game. Consider that this would be a complete reversal of how a Reaper invasion normally goes.

Right. And we're the mice. The Reapers are far more capable of hit and run strikes than Citadel forces are. They have no supply lines, longer-range weapons, and faster ships.

[Taboo]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

SO GIVE SHEPARD COMMAND OF THE FLEETS.  It really is that easy,  would add a nice SM like final fight as well.

It doesn't work that way.

The variables are NOT the same.

It is an entirely new set of circumstances that you have to account for.

[David7204]

That wouldn't work.