1098 réponses à ce sujet

[BerzerkGene]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...
There's also this from that wiki entry:

"Oculi are cybernetic constructs, being piloted (in the case of those used by the Collectors) by a single Collector drone. Each drone is stripped down until only its nervous system remains, with the remaining tissue then being hardened to withstand vacuum and integrated into an Oculus shell."

As it turns out, they're manned, so to speak...

Huh, so they're Husk fighters.  That's kinda neat, and kinda Battlestar Galacticaey.  In any event, bed.  Fight on!

Yup and husks have extremely limited mental capacity. Reaper forces for the most part don't appear to possess any survival instinct i.e. fight or flight. They only seem to have the fight instinct and rely on overwhelming force to get the job done. That being said it seems reasonable to assume that one of their central focuses won't be avoiding incoming fire, rather removing the incoming threat by overwhelming it. Husks do not try to avoid fire, nor do Cannibals really. I have never witnessed Cannibals running away because they're getting the crap shot out of them. 

That doesn matter . It's numbers and attack power is it's strength. Endless swarms of these will take on any tactic.

It does matter. The additional complexity increases production time, i.e. it requires a drone 'pilot' with limited mental capacity, which also limits their versatility meaning they have a limited practical application i.e. they are only useful within the contraints of the standard reaper overwhelm tactic. An intelligent enemy can learn to overcome such clumsy tactics, plus it's only effective so long as you have a staggering numerical advantage as it is typically accompanied by staggering losses. They are not endless.

Correctamundo. The Reapers don't have production facilities, they have processing plants and ships. They brought what they had. Considering they would have to use husks to build these things, which would be in no way close to the same capability as a fully functioning production line, the time to make them would be huge.
Whether the occuli are piloted or not, i don't know. But they do not seem to possess any knowledge of tactics, attack attack attack is the default mode.

Theres also the fact that during any of the battle scenes after the initial strike on the Reapers, they're all gone, so they probably were all taken out.
While the Reapers never seem concerned about losses(even when its reapers themselves dying) they would need some way to make sure those aren't wasted. Against smart enemies they would be chewed up and spat out, The only real advantage is that they have good firepower, but its still not that accurate.

[BerzerkGene]

Skirata129 wrote...

Thanks, and completely agree, but try not to insult each other. I hate when threads get shut down because of that.

Sorry. But i just get mad when people say "oh you can't beat the reapers through military might...because you can't!"
Too much evidence saying otherwise. Chances of such a victory is Hackett was not in command, he is a terrible strategist.

[Han Shot First]

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

[dreman9999]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Regardless of whether or not this tactic would work (it wouldn't), regardless of whether or not the Reapers vastly outnumber the organic races (they do), regardless of whether or not the Reapers en mass are impossible to defeat conventionally (they are), regardless of whether or not the Reapers are VASTLY technologically advanced compared to us (they are), there is this:

The Reapers do not have the weaknesses inherent in organic species. They do not need to eat. They do not need to sleep. They do not have morale. They do not need resupplying as we do. They do not have bases or fuel depots or shipyards that need to be protected. They will simply keep coming and coming and coming. Forever. Until either all of them, or all of us, are dead.

You. Cannot. Stop. An. Enemy. That. CANNOT. Be. Stopped.

What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

So what if they don't need all that crap? Making them sound implacable doesn't change the fact you can kill them. Not just with "entire fleets"(which is a gross exagerration on the rannoch reaper's part) or "giant thresher maws". Reapers die more ways than just that.

Simply saying they cannot be stopped proves nothing. You didn;t even answer OP's point. He wanted to know why that wouldn't work. It has merit, especially since reapers can be destroyed from the inside.

Taboo-XX wrote...

There aren't even that many Dreadnoughts dude. It's stated in game.

I don't even think there are half that many.

YOU AREN'T GOING TO WIN BECAUSE IT ISN'T FEASIBLE IN ANY CONTEXT.

This is old but i though i'd throw my opinion in here.
It is feasible. Why?

Because dreadnoughts aren't the only ships in the galaxy. You also fail to take Thanix cannons into account, which can arm a fighter with the firepower of a cruiser. Cruisers have approximately 1/4 the firepower of a dreadnought with conventional weapons. So 16 Thanix armed fighters would have the same firepower as a dreadnought.
What now ****.

To use thanix cannons we need to get out ships cloes. To get our ship close, we hve to get through in coming fire and oculus. Once we get close we have to avoid being oneshot by a reaper...It's not as simple as you think. Add the reapers numbersand convention victroy is not possible.

Modifié par dreman9999, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:14 .

[BerzerkGene]

dreman9999 wrote...

An intellignet enemy can only only use tactic to over come them for a while. Then it becomes and indurance match. We already seen this before with ground husk. This concept will only work if wehave a deffinaent way to get close and one shot a reaper. The entire concept is to wear us out and overwhelm us. The reapers don't really need to us complex tactic to win and any complex tactics we use just add to the lose of resources. manpower, and will we lose. All the means is that we can win for a while, bu t inh elong while we lose.

Huh, so the thousands of husks shepard kills personally doesn't mean much to you i guess.
As for getting in close to one shot a reaper, in space, probably wouldn't happen, take about 16 thanix shots to take a sovereign class one down. However since they can be mounted of fighters, its feasible. But on the ground? The Cain. It one shots a destroyer. Few more, dead sovereign class.
Tactics work. Its said in the game how proper tactics helped kill reapers, helped take back palaven. Hackett decided to try it the reapers way, look how that turned out.
In the long run we would win. The Reapers would take at least 100 years to scour the galaxy clean of any resistance. Thats a very long time. Continuious production of ships, weapons, pilots and soldiers would be trivial when faced with utter annihilation. Theres places you could hide to accomplish this, similar to how TIM hid his elaborate base.

[BerzerkGene]

dreman9999 wrote...

To use thanix cannons we need to get out ships cloes. To get our ship close, we hve to get through in coming fire and oculus. Once we get close we have to avoid being oneshot by a reaper...It's not as simple as you think. Add the reapers numbersand convention victroy is not possible.

Thanix cannons would have a similar range to reaper guns, being the same technology and all. Getting in close just makes it much easier to aim, and avoiuding a reaper with say...a frigate, seems possible when they miss cruisers. Fighters even easier.
The occuli are easy to take down, a few normal shots from a fighter and they crumple. the Normandy's missles one shot them. They're just fodder.
I'm not saying it would be easy, its a war after all.

Again with the reapers numbers...Look, on the outside, the Reapers number maybe 50,000. Withing many losses during the previous cycles. That is in no way the same amount of force you supposedly can bring to bear. The Quarian flotilla, not including fighters, numbers over 10,000.
If they truly outmatched the galaxy so vastly in numbers there would be no fight, no victory anywhere. They would roll right over everyone, destroy everything in their path and within days to weeks the galaxy would be lost. In ME3 its months later and you still have a vast fleet.

[BerzerkGene]

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

*Facepalm* You're only counting dreadnoughts. They are not the only ships. They're not the only thing with decent firepower. Also the geth and quarians have a fair number of dreadnoughts too.
Yes, they're more powerful, its a 4:1 ratio. But like i said, they're not the only ships. If all anyone made were dreadnoughts, yeah, everyone dies, in about a week.
Crusiers have 1/4 the firepower of dreadnoughts, and they'e the basic ships used by ALL fleets.
Thanix give anything up from a fighter a gun that matches the firepower of a cruiser.

The reapers number 50,000, perhaps and thats being generous. They still don't outnumber the galaxy.

[Han Shot First]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

*Facepalm* You're only counting dreadnoughts. They are not the only ships. They're not the only thing with decent firepower. Also the geth and quarians have a fair number of dreadnoughts too.
Yes, they're more powerful, its a 4:1 ratio. But like i said, they're not the only ships. If all anyone made were dreadnoughts, yeah, everyone dies, in about a week.
Crusiers have 1/4 the firepower of dreadnoughts, and they'e the basic ships used by ALL fleets.
Thanix give anything up from a fighter a gun that matches the firepower of a cruiser.

The reapers number 50,000, perhaps and thats being generous. They still don't outnumber the galaxy.

If the Reapers have more dreadnoughts, they likely have more cruisers (Reaper destroyers)  as well.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:31 .

[xsdob]

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

Modifié par xsdob, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:34 .

[BerzerkGene]

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

*Facepalm* You're only counting dreadnoughts. They are not the only ships. They're not the only thing with decent firepower. Also the geth and quarians have a fair number of dreadnoughts too.
Yes, they're more powerful, its a 4:1 ratio. But like i said, they're not the only ships. If all anyone made were dreadnoughts, yeah, everyone dies, in about a week.
Crusiers have 1/4 the firepower of dreadnoughts, and they'e the basic ships used by ALL fleets.
Thanix give anything up from a fighter a gun that matches the firepower of a cruiser.

The reapers number 50,000, perhaps and thats being generous. They still don't outnumber the galaxy.

If the Reapers have more dreadnoughts, they likely have more cruisers (Reaper destroyers)  as well.

The destroyers seem to be fodder, and are much easier to kill. Hell, on the ground a Cain will do it, no problem.
Dreadnoughts are the whole chosen race thingie, destroyers are just the leftovers, if there are any. Sometimes neither are made, as with the Prothean cycle.
Destroyers are less than 1/10 the size of a dreanought reaper. They are no where near as strong.

[BerzerkGene]

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

[xsdob]

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

The husk are the oculus's, their nervous systems are reporpused in ME3 to pilot it, just like the protheans were. The oculus can be replaced easily, as long as husk exsist.

And do you reall believe that time is not of the essence when fighting reapers?

Modifié par xsdob, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:52 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I co-sign everything Taboo said.

[Father_Jerusalem]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Regardless of whether or not this tactic would work (it wouldn't), regardless of whether or not the Reapers vastly outnumber the organic races (they do), regardless of whether or not the Reapers en mass are impossible to defeat conventionally (they are), regardless of whether or not the Reapers are VASTLY technologically advanced compared to us (they are), there is this:

The Reapers do not have the weaknesses inherent in organic species. They do not need to eat. They do not need to sleep. They do not have morale. They do not need resupplying as we do. They do not have bases or fuel depots or shipyards that need to be protected. They will simply keep coming and coming and coming. Forever. Until either all of them, or all of us, are dead.

You. Cannot. Stop. An. Enemy. That. CANNOT. Be. Stopped.

What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

So what if they don't need all that crap? Making them sound implacable doesn't change the fact you can kill them. Not just with "entire fleets"(which is a gross exagerration on the rannoch reaper's part) or "giant thresher maws". Reapers die more ways than just that.

Simply saying they cannot be stopped proves nothing. You didn;t even answer OP's point. He wanted to know why that wouldn't work. It has merit, especially since reapers can be destroyed from the inside.

What's "wrong" with me is that apparently I like logic and facts. Go figure.

They do outnumber the warships of the galaxy - especially in Capital ships. They are vastly technologically superior to us - even if our weapons are even (they're not), they can destroy our deadnaughts in one shot. We need many more to burn through their shields. 

"So what if they don't need all that crap?" It means we lose. That's so what. Unless we wipe them out in one fell swoop, say by using some giant weapon that's been built over the whole plot of the game - for instance, it will devolve into a war of attrition in which THEY are vastly better equipped to fight than we are. They simply will not stop, they will keep coming. Forever. 

As for "yes we can destroy a Reaper"? Sure you can. Absolutely. You can destroy a Reaper. Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

[BerzerkGene]

xsdob wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

The husk are the oculus's, their nervous systems are reporpused in ME3 to pilot it, just like the protheans were. The oculus can be replaced easily, as long as husk exsist.

And do you reall believe that time is not of the essence when fighting reapers?

The nervous system yes, but if thats the case, and they're easily made they would be there throughout the game, the only time they are mentioned or seen is at the final battle. And after the first scene with the fleet, they're all gone, so they died.
The fact they're cybernetic constructs makes them difficult to replace. The mostly likely place they were made was the collector base, which you destroy.  The Reapers have no production facilities for them

Not really, time if of the essense to save earth. Personally i would not care. Its one planet. Even if its my home, it means nothing comapred to a whole galaxy.

[Father_Jerusalem]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

*Facepalm* You're only counting dreadnoughts. They are not the only ships. They're not the only thing with decent firepower. Also the geth and quarians have a fair number of dreadnoughts too.
Yes, they're more powerful, its a 4:1 ratio. But like i said, they're not the only ships. If all anyone made were dreadnoughts, yeah, everyone dies, in about a week.
Crusiers have 1/4 the firepower of dreadnoughts, and they'e the basic ships used by ALL fleets.
Thanix give anything up from a fighter a gun that matches the firepower of a cruiser.

The reapers number 50,000, perhaps and thats being generous. They still don't outnumber the galaxy.

If the Reapers have more dreadnoughts, they likely have more cruisers (Reaper destroyers)  as well.

The destroyers seem to be fodder, and are much easier to kill. Hell, on the ground a Cain will do it, no problem.
Dreadnoughts are the whole chosen race thingie, destroyers are just the leftovers, if there are any. Sometimes neither are made, as with the Prothean cycle.
Destroyers are less than 1/10 the size of a dreanought reaper. They are no where near as strong.

No. Just no. Flat out no. Utterly no.

A Hades Cannon is NOT a Destroyer, no matter how much it may look like one.

Just no. Stop spreading this falsehood, it's one of the most asinine things "Pro-Refusers" keep spreading around.

[Haargel]

Impossible.

Modifié par Haargel, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:03 .

[xsdob]

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

The husk are the oculus's, their nervous systems are reporpused in ME3 to pilot it, just like the protheans were. The oculus can be replaced easily, as long as husk exsist.

And do you reall believe that time is not of the essence when fighting reapers?

The nervous system yes, but if thats the case, and they're easily made they would be there throughout the game, the only time they are mentioned or seen is at the final battle. And after the first scene with the fleet, they're all gone, so they died.
The fact they're cybernetic constructs makes them difficult to replace. The mostly likely place they were made was the collector base, which you destroy.  The Reapers have no production facilities for them

Not really, time if of the essense to save earth. Personally i would not care. Its one planet. Even if its my home, it means nothing comapred to a whole galaxy.

They are seen on the opening attack on earth, pursuing and destroying a fighter. They are also spotted on palavan as well, here's the offical wiki's report on it, and it's their job/responsibility/all they do to know this stuff.

The Oculus returns in Mass Effect 3, serving as an atmospheric and exoatmospheric fighter and interceptor for Reaper forces. Several Oculi can be seen during the first mission on Earth, attacking Alliance fighters and A-61 Mantis Gunships. Squadrons are also seen in action over Palaven
and later during the battle to retake Earth. The Oculus is seen only in
cutscenes or in the background of various levels, and cannot be engaged
in combat as in Mass Effect 2.

[ABCoLD]

Can't sleep. BSN is the internets in a microcosm. It's just people that have one thing to say, and think that saying it multiple times will cause other people to realize that the poster is Right, with a capital R. Because being right isn't good enough.

[ABCoLD]

I think what we can all agree on is that the half-arsed original ending of Mass Effect 3 was horrible, and caused the forums to devolve into a long running fire fight of "I'm right!" and "No, you're an idiot!" because nothing was explained.

In the hurry to get out the Extended Cut they actually did something funny, because they finally gave us a refusal option, but they really half-assed showing us what happened to the galaxy and why... causing the forums to devolve into... well, you know.

[BleedingUranium]

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

The husk are the oculus's, their nervous systems are reporpused in ME3 to pilot it, just like the protheans were. The oculus can be replaced easily, as long as husk exsist.

And do you reall believe that time is not of the essence when fighting reapers?

The nervous system yes, but if thats the case, and they're easily made they would be there throughout the game, the only time they are mentioned or seen is at the final battle. And after the first scene with the fleet, they're all gone, so they died.
The fact they're cybernetic constructs makes them difficult to replace. The mostly likely place they were made was the collector base, which you destroy.  The Reapers have no production facilities for them

Not really, time if of the essense to save earth. Personally i would not care. Its one planet. Even if its my home, it means nothing comapred to a whole galaxy.

I very much agree. I, as a player, had no particular interest in Earth, it is just another planet, one of hundreds, thousands. Add to that, no Shepard background has special spot for Earth either; one lived on ships, one's from a different planet, and the other had a terrible life on Earth and escaped as soon as possible.

I also agree that the people who keep repeating "We can't beat the Reapers because we can't" are annoying. We can debate whether our cycle would be able to defeat the Reapers with what we have, and while I believe we could, you could argue it either way. Saying that we can't beat them, like, no matter what, is... what's a good term, hmm... maybe "viewing the Reapers with superstitious awe"?

[Han Shot First]

BerzerkGene wrote...

The destroyers seem to be fodder, and are much easier to kill. Hell, on the ground a Cain will do it, no problem.
Dreadnoughts are the whole chosen race thingie, destroyers are just the leftovers, if there are any. Sometimes neither are made, as with the Prothean cycle.
Destroyers are less than 1/10 the size of a dreanought reaper. They are no where near as strong.

While the Reaper Destroyers are weaker than the Reaper dreadnoughts, they are more powerful than Human/Turian/Asari/Salarian cruisers. And the Reapers likely have more of them, since they also have more dreadnoughts.

Conventional victory is simply not possible against an enemy that is vastly superior technologically, likely has numerical superiority, and doesn't have to worry about things like morale and the state of the galactic economy.

The galaxy has exactly one year to win, or it is doomed. That is how long the galactic economy can hold out before it completely collapses. A conventional victory in that short a time frame is simply not possible, short of a superweapon.

[BerzerkGene]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Regardless of whether or not this tactic would work (it wouldn't), regardless of whether or not the Reapers vastly outnumber the organic races (they do), regardless of whether or not the Reapers en mass are impossible to defeat conventionally (they are), regardless of whether or not the Reapers are VASTLY technologically advanced compared to us (they are), there is this:

The Reapers do not have the weaknesses inherent in organic species. They do not need to eat. They do not need to sleep. They do not have morale. They do not need resupplying as we do. They do not have bases or fuel depots or shipyards that need to be protected. They will simply keep coming and coming and coming. Forever. Until either all of them, or all of us, are dead.

You. Cannot. Stop. An. Enemy. That. CANNOT. Be. Stopped.

What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

So what if they don't need all that crap? Making them sound implacable doesn't change the fact you can kill them. Not just with "entire fleets"(which is a gross exagerration on the rannoch reaper's part) or "giant thresher maws". Reapers die more ways than just that.

Simply saying they cannot be stopped proves nothing. You didn;t even answer OP's point. He wanted to know why that wouldn't work. It has merit, especially since reapers can be destroyed from the inside.

What's "wrong" with me is that apparently I like logic and facts. Go figure.

They do outnumber the warships of the galaxy - especially in Capital ships. They are vastly technologically superior to us - even if our weapons are even (they're not), they can destroy our deadnaughts in one shot. We need many more to burn through their shields. 

"So what if they don't need all that crap?" It means we lose. That's so what. Unless we wipe them out in one fell swoop, say by using some giant weapon that's been built over the whole plot of the game - for instance, it will devolve into a war of attrition in which THEY are vastly better equipped to fight than we are. They simply will not stop, they will keep coming. Forever. 

As for "yes we can destroy a Reaper"? Sure you can. Absolutely. You can destroy a Reaper. Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

Logic and facts, but not evidence that contradicts your logic or your made up facts.

They outnumber the dreadnoughts, individual fleets. Entire fleets including fighters? Not a chance.

Again with the dreadnoughts. No one gives a crap about them. You never see any of them do anything impressive, except for the Destiny Ascension, which was noy dying.
If 16 thanix shots have the firepower of 4 dreadnoughts, The Kwunu would shred a reaper with one to two salvos.

Not really, the Reapers aren't exactly fast with their ideas and plans. It took Sovereign over 300 years to come up with using the Geth. They're slow and methodical. Why they're so careless though, i really don't know. Probably because starchild threw them the idiot ball.

That "giant weapon" which isn't a weapon and no one has any god damn clue what it is, was to save earth and hopefully bring about a quick end to the war. The fact its nothing but a huge power source makes no sense, building a super weapon does, super duracell...not so much.

They're mostly MADE to destroy and space force and muddle the minds of their enemies. They're not made for a long war, they're made to endure the passing of time, which makes me wonder if they need maintenance at all, being machines, but i digress.

If they keep coming, you sacrifice. I'd forget about earth, if most of the reapers are there, good, kill the smaller forces, draw them out, then use the all out battery plan.

I would, given the chance, but i am not. 20,000 is laughable though. Its why i say 50,000ish. 20,000 doesn't seem much at all when one fleet you get is 10,000 strong, without their fighters. Add in the force said fleet was fighting, you basically match the reapers in sheer numbers.

[BerzerkGene]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...


What is wrong with you, they do not vastly outnumber the galaxy. Impossible to defeat 'conventionally' they're not. Its stated they can be blown up, where would the 4 dreadnoughts to 1 reaper come from? Vastly technologically superior, in regards to shields, propulsion and indoctrination, yes. In space magic machines, also yes. Weapons, not by much.

They do outnumber the galaxy.

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. You see a lot more Reaper dreadnoughts than that in a single cutscene, and Reaper dreadnoughts are much more powerful than the dreadnoughts fielded by the Council species.

*Facepalm* You're only counting dreadnoughts. They are not the only ships. They're not the only thing with decent firepower. Also the geth and quarians have a fair number of dreadnoughts too.
Yes, they're more powerful, its a 4:1 ratio. But like i said, they're not the only ships. If all anyone made were dreadnoughts, yeah, everyone dies, in about a week.
Crusiers have 1/4 the firepower of dreadnoughts, and they'e the basic ships used by ALL fleets.
Thanix give anything up from a fighter a gun that matches the firepower of a cruiser.

The reapers number 50,000, perhaps and thats being generous. They still don't outnumber the galaxy.

If the Reapers have more dreadnoughts, they likely have more cruisers (Reaper destroyers)  as well.

The destroyers seem to be fodder, and are much easier to kill. Hell, on the ground a Cain will do it, no problem.
Dreadnoughts are the whole chosen race thingie, destroyers are just the leftovers, if there are any. Sometimes neither are made, as with the Prothean cycle.
Destroyers are less than 1/10 the size of a dreanought reaper. They are no where near as strong.

No. Just no. Flat out no. Utterly no.

A Hades Cannon is NOT a Destroyer, no matter how much it may look like one.

Just no. Stop spreading this falsehood, it's one of the most asinine things "Pro-Refusers" keep spreading around.

Riiight, cause Reapers just carry around giant chassis for fun.
Its a reaper, deal with it.

[Han Shot First]

BleedingUranium wrote...

 Saying that we can't beat them, like, no matter what, is... what's a good term, hmm... maybe "viewing the Reapers with superstitious awe"?

That is being realistic.

If you look at real world wars...

When a nation is technologically superior, numerically superior, has a deeper war chest and better logistics, and has the will to outlast its enemy, it will *always* win.

The path to victory for a nation that is an underdog is to wear down the strong one with a war of attrition and break that nation's will to continue the fight. That is not an option against the Reapers. Reapers don't have to worry about morale or political support from a homefront, and they actually have the advantage in a war of attrition. The Reapers are constantly replacing their groundside losses with the enemy's own men, and the galactic economy cannot withstand the onslaught for more than a year.