1098 réponses à ce sujet

[ABCoLD]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Riiight, cause Reapers just carry around giant chassis for fun.
Its a reaper, deal with it.

Have you even read the Codex or taken a look at it?  Stop trollin dude.
http://masseffect.wi...ki/Hades_Cannon 

[BerzerkGene]

xsdob wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

xsdob wrote...

This seems like a really bad idea, since the reapers move much faster than our ships can, even the frigates, and can hit us from much farther away.

Not to mention the occulus's are much more affective against the smaller ships such as frigates or even fighters than our fighters are to the reapers, they can just out spam us with flying eyes of death and kill off most of the fleet that way, keeping out of range of our weaponry.

Worst part, they can make those occulus from husk, so they can get a larger supply of it than we can of ships or crews for them. Afterall, reapers can make husk from the living or the dead, and we take years to breed 1 solider, and every person we lose the reapers gain on their side.

Anything that drags this battle out long is doomed, you need something that doesn't let the reapers fight a war of attiriton, which this plan doesn't sound like.

The only advantage reapers have with propulsion is FTL. They're much faster, in a regular battle they are slow. The reapers actually fire from a much shorter range. Missles and other conventional weapons are fired on them long before they fire back.

The occuli are easy to kill, essentially being glass cannons, with the fighters taking them out or being 1-shotted by bigger ships.

The oculi are piloted by collectors, and they seem to be limited considering how many you encounter during the game(none). This is likely due to the prothean's advanced genetics, which all other races lack. Husks aren't really a match for a soldier, or someone with a gun. Shepard alone kills thousands, in cutscenes they're basically 1 shotted. Only Banshees and Brutes really pose a threat, but they can still be taken down with ease.

Time doesn't mean anything to reapers and they cannot replace themselves or oculi quickly, dragging the war out would accutually be to the benefit of the galaxy.

The husk are the oculus's, their nervous systems are reporpused in ME3 to pilot it, just like the protheans were. The oculus can be replaced easily, as long as husk exsist.

And do you reall believe that time is not of the essence when fighting reapers?

The nervous system yes, but if thats the case, and they're easily made they would be there throughout the game, the only time they are mentioned or seen is at the final battle. And after the first scene with the fleet, they're all gone, so they died.
The fact they're cybernetic constructs makes them difficult to replace. The mostly likely place they were made was the collector base, which you destroy.  The Reapers have no production facilities for them

Not really, time if of the essense to save earth. Personally i would not care. Its one planet. Even if its my home, it means nothing comapred to a whole galaxy.

They are seen on the opening attack on earth, pursuing and destroying a fighter. They are also spotted on palavan as well, here's the offical wiki's report on it, and it's their job/responsibility/all they do to know this stuff.

The Oculus returns in Mass Effect 3, serving as an atmospheric and exoatmospheric fighter and interceptor for Reaper forces. Several Oculi can be seen during the first mission on Earth, attacking Alliance fighters and A-61 Mantis Gunships. Squadrons are also seen in action over Palaven and later during the battle to retake Earth. The Oculus is seen only in cutscenes or in the background of various levels, and cannot be engaged in combat as in Mass Effect 2.

Indeed, you are correct. I had forgotten about that. Hmm i rewatched palaven, you're right, i wonder where they came from though. I guess the reapers have some kind of docking bay in them. Makes sense for them to be there, after all, collector swarms were meant to be there too.

[BerzerkGene]

ABCoLD wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Riiight, cause Reapers just carry around giant chassis for fun.
Its a reaper, deal with it.

Have you even read the Codex or taken a look at it?  Stop trollin dude.
http://masseffect.wi...ki/Hades_Cannon 

Few things, A) Not trolling.
Thats not the codex, thats the wiki. If i'm not allowed to use it as evidence for myself, neither are you.
C) "capable of being mounted on the four-legged chassis of a Destroyer-class Reaper" Again, do you think they just have these lying around?

The fact these cannons are huge, powerful and accurate seems like only a reaper would be able to control it, because it applied the same principles as their main weapons, but they can't fire up that well.

Modifié par BerzerkGene, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:41 .

[snfonseka]

"swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers" - That tactic won't work if there are huge number of carriers. Isn't it? We don't know the actual number of Reapers or do we?

[BleedingUranium]

Han Shot First wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

 Saying that we can't beat them, like, no matter what, is... what's a good term, hmm... maybe "viewing the Reapers with superstitious awe"?

That is being realistic.

If you look at real world wars...

When a nation is technologically superior, numerically superior, has a deeper war chest and better logistics, and has the will to outlast its enemy, it will *always* win.

The path to victory for a nation that is an underdog is to wear down the strong one with a war of attrition and break that nation's will to continue the fight. That is not an option against the Reapers. Reapers don't have to worry about morale or political support from a homefront, and they actually have the advantage in a war of attrition. The Reapers are constantly replacing their groundside losses with the enemy's own men, and the galactic economy cannot withstand the onslaught for more than a year.

Right, because we're going to go "Well, looks like we're out of money, better stop fighting the Reapers"  Money isn't a real thing, it's an idea. The paper in your wallet only has value because we as a society give it value. Money is not real. Any faction that considers money important in war will be at a severe disadvantage.

[krasnoarmeets]

"The Migrant Fleet consists of roughly fifty thousand starships that house seventeen million quarians. The Fleet is so large it can take days for all the ships to pass through a mass relay."
Most of these were retrofitted with armaments so the Quarians could wage war on the Geth and take back their home world. The Geth fleet is pretty damn huge as well so far as I could tell. If Han Gerrel hadn't been such a fricking moron they would still have that Dreadnought of theirs which would have been an outstanding asset. The Geth don't have an economy and they seem to do okay in terms of resources and production. Economy is irrelevant in such a situation. Resources and manpower are key. I don't think getting paid is the foremost thing on a person's mind when they're contributing towards the fight for the survival of every advanced race in existence especially when that number includes their own as well as their family. Certainly there will always be morons who want to profit off others' misery, but in such a situation you'd find that they would become isolated and dealt with fairly quickly. Resources tend to get commandeered for the war effort.

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:43 .

[BerzerkGene]

snfonseka wrote...

"swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers" - That tactic won't work if there are huge number of carriers. Isn't it? We don't know the actual number of Reapers or do we?

Point. Yes, we don't know. Some think its millions, which is insane.
A rough estimate is 50,000.
But considering how huge the reapers are and their lack of armaments aside from one huge cannon makes swarming them viable. Getting inside is another matter, we only hear of them being able to be boarded, not how. I guess Saren knew how.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

[BleedingUranium]

snfonseka wrote...

"swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers" - That tactic won't work if there are huge number of carriers. Isn't it? We don't know the actual number of Reapers or do we?

So long as the ratio of Carriers to PT Boats stays the same, the numbers don't matter, only the ratio.

[BerzerkGene]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

"The Migrant Fleet consists of roughly fifty thousand starships that house seventeen million quarians. The Fleet is so large it can take days for all the ships to pass through a mass relay."
Most of these were retrofitted with armaments so the Quarians could wage war on the Geth and take back their home world. The Geth fleet is pretty damn huge as well so far as I could tell. If Han Gerrel hadn't been such a fricking moron they would still have that Dreadnought of theirs which would have been an outstanding asset. The Geth don't have an economy and they seem to do okay in terms of resources and production. Economy is irrelevant in such a situation. Resources and manpower are key. I don't think getting paid is the foremost thing on a person's mind when they're contributing towards the fight for the survival of every advanced race in existence especially when that number includes their own as well as their family. Certainly there will always be morons who want to profit off others' misery, but in such a situation you'd find that they would become isolated and dealt with fairly quickly. Resources tend to get commandeered for the war effort.

Oho, you're right, its bigger than i thought.
Well heres a thought about that dreadnought. You think the geth only had one?
You have good stuff here. You and BleedingUranium are right though. An economy means nothing in the face of extinction.
Theres also the fact a war of attrition works for Reaper ground forces, but not space force, which is the issue.

[BerzerkGene]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

I've been told many things.

[saracen16]

Skirata129 wrote...

you failed to address my suggestion considering the Codex specifically states that four dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper capital ship. Meaning their combined firepower, not all four running into it, so size doesn't really matter. just how much force you bring to bear.

Oh my God... This thread again?! A conventional victory against the Reapers is impossible. You're ignoring the other codex entries about dreadnoughts and Reaper capabilities. Never mind the fact that countless cycles have already generated countless Reapers, and even using conventional tactics, previous cycles may have won battles but eventually lost the war. The most notable cycle to do this? THE PROTHEANS. Let's reiterate: organics and synthetics rely on...

1. Supply lines
2. Morale
3. Numbers
4. Firepower

The Reapers do not need supply lines nor morale, and they exceed all civilizations by numbers and firepower. There is no hope for organics and synthetics other than an unconventional victory. It simply can not be done otherwise.

[Conniving_Eagle]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

No 20k would not be easy, and that is a ridiculous estimate.

[saracen16]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

You're right: it's a very modest estimate. Eons means (hundreds of) billions of years, and the Catalyst himself tells you that this was how long the Reapers have been Reaping. Divide eons by 50,000 and you'll get a number in the hundreds of thousands, not just tens of thousands.

[saracen16]

BerzerkGene wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

"The Migrant Fleet consists of roughly fifty thousand starships that house seventeen million quarians. The Fleet is so large it can take days for all the ships to pass through a mass relay."
Most of these were retrofitted with armaments so the Quarians could wage war on the Geth and take back their home world. The Geth fleet is pretty damn huge as well so far as I could tell. If Han Gerrel hadn't been such a fricking moron they would still have that Dreadnought of theirs which would have been an outstanding asset. The Geth don't have an economy and they seem to do okay in terms of resources and production. Economy is irrelevant in such a situation. Resources and manpower are key. I don't think getting paid is the foremost thing on a person's mind when they're contributing towards the fight for the survival of every advanced race in existence especially when that number includes their own as well as their family. Certainly there will always be morons who want to profit off others' misery, but in such a situation you'd find that they would become isolated and dealt with fairly quickly. Resources tend to get commandeered for the war effort.

Oho, you're right, its bigger than i thought.
Well heres a thought about that dreadnought. You think the geth only had one?
You have good stuff here. You and BleedingUranium are right though. An economy means nothing in the face of extinction.
Theres also the fact a war of attrition works for Reaper ground forces, but not space force, which is the issue.

And the Protheans lost to the Reapers because of attrition both in land and space. Attrition applies to our space fleets more than anything.

[Conniving_Eagle]

saracen16 wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

You're right: it's a very modest estimate. Eons means (hundreds of) billions of years, and the Catalyst himself tells you that this was how long the Reapers have been Reaping. Divide eons by 50,000 and you'll get a number in the hundreds of thousands, not just tens of thousands.

Hundreds of billions of years? Do you even know how old the universe actually is?

[BleedingUranium]

BerzerkGene wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

"swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers" - That tactic won't work if there are huge number of carriers. Isn't it? We don't know the actual number of Reapers or do we?

Point. Yes, we don't know. Some think its millions, which is insane.
A rough estimate is 50,000.
But considering how huge the reapers are and their lack of armaments aside from one huge cannon makes swarming them viable. Getting inside is another matter, we only hear of them being able to be boarded, not how. I guess Saren knew how.

Not sure how you're getting 50,000, but based on the Leviathan info in ME1, it was a billion years old. That's as far back as we can confirm the Reapers go, and that's if you believe a potentially outdated planet entry.

That's 20,000 Reapers, tops. Even that though, doesn't seem believable. Though we won't know for sure until the Leviathan DLC, based on a few pieces of evidence, and the leaked info, I find it a lot more likely the Reapers haven't been around much longer than 37 million, which would be roughly 750 Reapers, which to me seems more plausible.

For there to be 50,000 Reapers, they would have to have been around 2.5 billion years! And that's not even taking into account losses!

[saracen16]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

You're right: it's a very modest estimate. Eons means (hundreds of) billions of years, and the Catalyst himself tells you that this was how long the Reapers have been Reaping. Divide eons by 50,000 and you'll get a number in the hundreds of thousands, not just tens of thousands.

Hundreds of billions of years? Do you even know how old the universe actually is?

Do you?

[Han Shot First]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

 Saying that we can't beat them, like, no matter what, is... what's a good term, hmm... maybe "viewing the Reapers with superstitious awe"?

That is being realistic.

If you look at real world wars...

When a nation is technologically superior, numerically superior, has a deeper war chest and better logistics, and has the will to outlast its enemy, it will *always* win.

The path to victory for a nation that is an underdog is to wear down the strong one with a war of attrition and break that nation's will to continue the fight. That is not an option against the Reapers. Reapers don't have to worry about morale or political support from a homefront, and they actually have the advantage in a war of attrition. The Reapers are constantly replacing their groundside losses with the enemy's own men, and the galactic economy cannot withstand the onslaught for more than a year.

Right, because we're going to go "Well, looks like we're out of money, better stop fighting the Reapers"  Money isn't a real thing, it's an idea. The paper in your wallet only has value because we as a society give it value. Money is not real. Any faction that considers money important in war will be at a severe disadvantage.

You can't fight a war without money.

If the economy collapsed, so would the war effort.



"The sinews of war are endless money."


---Cicero

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 juillet 2012 - 10:02 .

[saracen16]

Han Shot First wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

 Saying that we can't beat them, like, no matter what, is... what's a good term, hmm... maybe "viewing the Reapers with superstitious awe"?

That is being realistic.

If you look at real world wars...

When a nation is technologically superior, numerically superior, has a deeper war chest and better logistics, and has the will to outlast its enemy, it will *always* win.

The path to victory for a nation that is an underdog is to wear down the strong one with a war of attrition and break that nation's will to continue the fight. That is not an option against the Reapers. Reapers don't have to worry about morale or political support from a homefront, and they actually have the advantage in a war of attrition. The Reapers are constantly replacing their groundside losses with the enemy's own men, and the galactic economy cannot withstand the onslaught for more than a year.

Right, because we're going to go "Well, looks like we're out of money, better stop fighting the Reapers"  Money isn't a real thing, it's an idea. The paper in your wallet only has value because we as a society give it value. Money is not real. Any faction that considers money important in war will be at a severe disadvantage.

You can't fight a war without money.

If the economy collapsed, so would the war effort.



"The sinews of war are endless money."


---Cicero

I agree with Han, with one important exception: the galactic economy does not just mean the flow of money. It also means the flow of products and supplies. The fact that it can collapse tells you much not just about how galactic money itself is losing its value, but also how much supplies and their trafficking will be disrupted.

[Father_Jerusalem]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Logic and facts, but not evidence that contradicts your logic or your made up facts.

They outnumber the dreadnoughts, individual fleets. Entire fleets including fighters? Not a chance.

Again with the dreadnoughts. No one gives a crap about them. You never see any of them do anything impressive, except for the Destiny Ascension, which was noy dying.
If 16 thanix shots have the firepower of 4 dreadnoughts, The Kwunu would shred a reaper with one to two salvos.

Not really, the Reapers aren't exactly fast with their ideas and plans. It took Sovereign over 300 years to come up with using the Geth. They're slow and methodical. Why they're so careless though, i really don't know. Probably because starchild threw them the idiot ball.

That "giant weapon" which isn't a weapon and no one has any god damn clue what it is, was to save earth and hopefully bring about a quick end to the war. The fact its nothing but a huge power source makes no sense, building a super weapon does, super duracell...not so much.

They're mostly MADE to destroy and space force and muddle the minds of their enemies. They're not made for a long war, they're made to endure the passing of time, which makes me wonder if they need maintenance at all, being machines, but i digress.

If they keep coming, you sacrifice. I'd forget about earth, if most of the reapers are there, good, kill the smaller forces, draw them out, then use the all out battery plan.

I would, given the chance, but i am not. 20,000 is laughable though. Its why i say 50,000ish. 20,000 doesn't seem much at all when one fleet you get is 10,000 strong, without their fighters. Add in the force said fleet was fighting, you basically match the reapers in sheer numbers.

Seriously? You said "no one gives a crap about" the deadnaughts. I just... I can't take you seriously after that.

FTR, though, 20,000 was their ships - Capital ships and Destroyers. We're not even estimating how many Oculi fighters they have because it's clearly many MANY more than that.

But whatever, man. "Who cares" about the dreadnaughts. Indeed.

[Conniving_Eagle]

BleedingUranium wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

"swarming the carrier with PT boats armed with rocket launchers" - That tactic won't work if there are huge number of carriers. Isn't it? We don't know the actual number of Reapers or do we?

Point. Yes, we don't know. Some think its millions, which is insane.
A rough estimate is 50,000.
But considering how huge the reapers are and their lack of armaments aside from one huge cannon makes swarming them viable. Getting inside is another matter, we only hear of them being able to be boarded, not how. I guess Saren knew how.

Not sure how you're getting 50,000, but based on the Leviathan info in ME1, it was a billion years old. That's as far back as we can confirm the Reapers go, and that's if you believe a potentially outdated planet entry.

That's 20,000 Reapers, tops. Even that though, doesn't seem believable. Though we won't know for sure until the Leviathan DLC, based on a few pieces of evidence, and the leaked info, I find it a lot more likely the Reapers haven't been around much longer than 37 million, which would be roughly 750 Reapers, which to me seems more plausible.

For there to be 50,000 Reapers, they would have to have been around 2.5 billion years! And that's not even taking into account losses!

Using the information on Levithan concur that there are 20,000 Reapers is jumping to conclusions. We know the Leviathan is a Reaper of some sort. We don't know if it's a capital ship, if it's the first ever Reaper, how long the Reapers have been harvesting cycles, etc.

[BleedingUranium]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

You're right: it's a very modest estimate. Eons means (hundreds of) billions of years, and the Catalyst himself tells you that this was how long the Reapers have been Reaping. Divide eons by 50,000 and you'll get a number in the hundreds of thousands, not just tens of thousands.

Hundreds of billions of years? Do you even know how old the universe actually is?

Haven't you heard? The Reapers are infinite and eternal

I'm an ITer (flame shield on), but even in a literal ending, the Catalyst is a Reaper. Not only that, he's the big boss Reaper. Did you believe all the crap Sovereign and Harby told you in ME1/2? That's what I thought. Even in a literal ending you shouldn't trust the kid.

[Conniving_Eagle]

saracen16 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Now... go ahead and try to destroy 20,000+ of them. 

What...?

A bad estimate of how many reapers there are. But don't worry. 20k would be easy.

You're right: it's a very modest estimate. Eons means (hundreds of) billions of years, and the Catalyst himself tells you that this was how long the Reapers have been Reaping. Divide eons by 50,000 and you'll get a number in the hundreds of thousands, not just tens of thousands.

Hundreds of billions of years? Do you even know how old the universe actually is?

Do you?

Somewhere around 14 billion years. Our galaxy is around 13.