1098 réponses à ce sujet

[incinerator950]

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

[Conniving_Eagle]

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Reapers don't have the advantage of numbers...

Yes, they do.

I count 295...

That a fraction of the fleet.

And I say it isn't.

The pic does not even cover the entire fleet, much is cut of. Added....

Link me the codex that says there are X Reapers.

As for the video, sorry I don't zealously accept whatever the Catalyst says as fact.

[Conniving_Eagle]

incinerator950 wrote...

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

There were over 3,000 cruisers at the Battle of Earth. Not counting various Alliance forces fighting across the galaxy.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:31 .

[dreman9999]

Thaa_solon wrote...

Indeed!
A fraction of the reaper fleet is LEFT after the oddly shaped reapers evaporated into thin air cause RETCON and STUPITITY

Therefore : Reaper numbers don't count for much in the overall view

Nothing is ever shown that they have less then the number shown and stated. It's note retconed. They out number us and this has been stated by character in the gaem over and over.

[Thaa_solon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

Dear dreman9999 that image is unfortunatly retconned by me3, all reaper capitolships looks the same.

All oddly shaped reapers where sent into the nearest star/blackhole and were destroyed, not really but still......

Reapers don't have the advantage of numbers, PErIOD

Flawed logic yet again, please continue

BS. Nothing has been retconed. The reaper still have way more number of ships then we do. It comfermed in ME3 many time.
The reapers have tech,numbers, will, power ,and resourses on their side.

Yes they are retconned, ask anyone on the forums...

Which means...... YOU ARE WRONG and still continue to live in within your flawed logic. that's strike three dreman9999

And if you didn't see it, Iam trying to help you.
So you can see beyond your own lies, and if you still can't......then I don't know how to help you.


Let go........trust your feelings........use the force(logic)

[dreman9999]

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

Dear dreman9999 that image is unfortunatly retconned by me3, all reaper capitolships looks the same.

All oddly shaped reapers where sent into the nearest star/blackhole and were destroyed, not really but still......

Reapers don't have the advantage of numbers, PErIOD

Flawed logic yet again, please continue

BS. Nothing has been retconed. The reaper still have way more number of ships then we do. It comfermed in ME3 many time.
The reapers have tech,numbers, will, power ,and resourses on their side.

Yes they are retconned, ask anyone on the forums...

Which means...... YOU ARE WRONG and still continue to live in within your flawed logic. that's strike three dreman9999

And if you didn't see it, Iam trying to help you.
So you can see beyond your own lies, and if you still can't......then I don't know how to help you.


Let go........trust your feelings........use the force(logic)

Point to me were the reaper numbers have been have been retcon.....I game comments that we have equal number with the reapers. And I want a source. Then you can say it.

[incinerator950]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

There were over 3,000 cruisers at the Battle of Earth. Not counting various Alliance forces fighting across the galaxy.

Your rebutal is priceless, minus the fact that the Reapers win conventionally on Earth, and the Alliance won't be able to do anything without a fleet.  Nice try though!

[dreman9999]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

There were over 3,000 cruisers at the Battle of Earth. Not counting various Alliance forces fighting across the galaxy.

Are we missing the number of destroyors the repars have and oculus? A cruiser is not up o take on a capital ship and the repars don't use capital ships alone.

[dreman9999]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Reapers don't have the advantage of numbers...

Yes, they do.

I count 295...

That a fraction of the fleet.

And I say it isn't.

The pic does not even cover the entire fleet, much is cut of. Added....

Link me the codex that says there are X Reapers.

As for the video, sorry I don't zealously accept whatever the Catalyst says as fact.

We don't have a number. Just a statement that they vastly out number us. Even if we don't have a number of reapers, it has well been comferemd the we are no where near the same number of ships.

[incinerator950]

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

There were over 3,000 cruisers at the Battle of Earth. Not counting various Alliance forces fighting across the galaxy.

Are we missing the number of destroyors the repars have and oculus? A cruiser is not up o take on a capital ship and the repars don't use capital ships alone.

No, the person who counted 600 mulled that.  Its hard to see some of the pics.  Regardless, we're to assume there are many, many Destroyers.  Also, we already know it takes groups of Cruisers to even hurt a single Reaper.

Which is to the point, Plot progression. 

[V-rcingetorix]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

~snip~

And how big is the chance that you find an isolated Reaper in an open war?

Sure, Shepard found 2 isolated Reapers (Tuchanka and Rannoch), which didn't made much sense in my opinion, but that aside, there are still countless of other reapers out there and you're NOT simply going to catch them all off guard in isolation (like we caught Sovereign).

And again, the reapers outnumber and outgun is. We'll have gone through all our resources and ships longgg before we've taken out all reapers with guerillia warfare, considering that it will cost us at least a dozen of ships every single time to take down one, JUST ONE reaper dreadnought.

Technically, the two Reapers Shepard takes out in ME3 are not Sovereign class, but Destroyer class. They have weaknesses that the bigger ships do not.

Finding them isolated doesn't surprise me, given the superior attitude that the Reapers seem to have on all things non-Reaper. Sovereign made contact/w the Geth on his own, and probably with the Rachni (Rachni Wars predating the Humanity era). Therefore a ship that can take on entire fleets probably passed on that confidence to its confederates.

Outrun and outgun? Yes, I can believe that. But let me give you an example of current military: the SEAL teams. The SEAL teams rarely outnumber their opponents; when they were formed back in the Vietnam era, they were outnumbered by a great number. Their strength was in simply outgunning (EDIT: everyone fired everything at once, superior firepower in a highly localized point) and surprising their foes, and then getting away.

Is it possible for Alliance ships to surprise a Reaper ship, or team of Reapers? I don't know for certain, but by having the Crucible, the Alliance already has superior intelligence on Reaper positions.

According to the Codex, it takes 4 dreadnoughts to take down 1 Sovereign class Reaper. The Reapers don't collect all in one massive fleet, it would give the organics waay to much room to maneuver (minigame, 2-5 Reapers when you "ping" the system).  By expanding their forces across the galaxy, the Reapers shut down all commerce and communication (mostly). They also expose their own forces in this manner.

But hey, all it needs a little touch of....Space Magic:wizard:

Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

There were over six hundred capitals at the Battle of Earth. Not counting the various Reaper forces across the Galaxy.

There were over 3,000 cruisers at the Battle of Earth. Not counting various Alliance forces fighting across the galaxy.

Are we missing the number of destroyors the repars have and oculus? A cruiser is not up o take on a capital ship and the repars don't use capital ships alone.

No, the person who counted 600 mulled that.  Its hard to see some of the pics.  Regardless, we're to assume there are many, many Destroyers.  Also, we already know it takes groups of Cruisers to even hurt a single Reaper.

Which is to the point, Plot progression. 

Make me wonder why people ever throught conventional victory is possible.

[Thaa_solon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Do reapers look like this in ME3, NO THEY DON'T because they are retconned.

In me1 sovereign said: "are numbers will darken the sky of every world"

In me2 we see a few reapers "undisclosed ammount"

In me3 they are kinda everywhere(dispersed across the galaxy) but they are not blotting out the nearest star on a habitable world

So the reaper ships don't go to the number "IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT" only "very difficult"

Please Dreman9999 use LOGIC........THINK, facts can be decietful especially if they are retconned.

[Grub Killer8016]

BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dreman9999]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

~snip~

And how big is the chance that you find an isolated Reaper in an open war?

Sure, Shepard found 2 isolated Reapers (Tuchanka and Rannoch), which didn't made much sense in my opinion, but that aside, there are still countless of other reapers out there and you're NOT simply going to catch them all off guard in isolation (like we caught Sovereign).

And again, the reapers outnumber and outgun is. We'll have gone through all our resources and ships longgg before we've taken out all reapers with guerillia warfare, considering that it will cost us at least a dozen of ships every single time to take down one, JUST ONE reaper dreadnought.

Technically, the two Reapers Shepard takes out in ME3 are not Sovereign class, but Destroyer class. They have weaknesses that the bigger ships do not.

Finding them isolated doesn't surprise me, given the superior attitude that the Reapers seem to have on all things non-Reaper. Sovereign made contact/w the Geth on his own, and probably with the Rachni (Rachni Wars predating the Humanity era). Therefore a ship that can take on entire fleets probably passed on that confidence to its confederates.

Outrun and outgun? Yes, I can believe that. But let me give you an example of current military: the SEAL teams. The SEAL teams rarely outnumber their opponents; when they were formed back in the Vietnam era, they were outnumbered by a great number. Their strength was in simply outgunning (and surprising) their foes, and then getting away.

Is it possible for Alliance ships to surprise a Reaper ship, or team of Reapers? I don't know for certain, but by having the Crucible, the Alliance already has superior intelligence on Reaper positions.

According to the Codex, it takes 4 dreadnoughts to take down 1 Sovereign class Reaper. The Reapers don't collect all in one massive fleet, it would give the organics waay to much room to maneuver (minigame, 2-5 Reapers when you "ping" the system).  By expanding their forces across the galaxy, the Reapers shut down all commerce and communication (mostly). They also expose their own forces in this manner.

But hey, all it needs a little touch of....Space Magic:wizard:

The only stealth system that can do it is on the normandy...EDI.  She is the only reason the normandy can hide from the reapers being that she can mimic them. The normady can hide form other ships but not reapers. No other stealth tech is more advance.

The next problem is hitting and running. Thanix cannon are the only thing that can hurt reaper we have....But we have to get close to use it.
http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities 
Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them -- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters 

Added they have oculus drone to help protected them in swarms.

We can use hit and run tactic for a while, bu thte reaper will adapt ageints the tactic and out last us. The war is an endurace match with the reaper having endless amounts of endurace while cutting down our resources. The have a vast advantage. A convention victory is not possible.

[genocidal villain]

3 years isn't enough time to prepare for a Reaper invasion even if they plan to mass produce thanix cannons. Plus dreadnoughts are limited by the Treaty of Farixen. The ratio for building dreadnoughts is 5:3:1. For every 5 dreadnoughts built by the Turians the Asari and Salarians are allowed to build 3 and other Citadel races are allowed to build 1. Then look at how many dreadnoughts each race has 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human; also the volus only have 1 dreadnought. That's really not enough to stop the Reapers.

[dreman9999]

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do reapers look like this in ME3, NO THEY DON'T because they are retconned.

In me1 sovereign said: "are numbers will darken the sky of every world"

In me2 we see a few reapers "undisclosed ammount"

In me3 they are kinda everywhere(dispersed across the galaxy) but they are not blotting out the nearest star on a habitable world

So the reaper ships don't go to the number "IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT" only "very difficult"

Please Dreman9999 use LOGIC........THINK, facts can be decietful especially if they are retconned.

Agian, where in the story have the reapers number have been retconed?   Added, if it is a retcon, it's that of the looks of the reapers not the numbers.

[incinerator950]

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do reapers look like this in ME3, NO THEY DON'T because they are retconned.

In me1 sovereign said: "are numbers will darken the sky of every world"

In me2 we see a few reapers "undisclosed ammount"

In me3 they are kinda everywhere(dispersed across the galaxy) but they are not blotting out the nearest star on a habitable world

So the reaper ships don't go to the number "IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT" only "very difficult"

Please Dreman9999 use LOGIC........THINK, facts can be decietful especially if they are retconned.

Drew made Sovereign sound ominous and impressive by using the same convoluted big bad speach theory he always rights.  It didn't need to be true, its called bluffing and intimidation.  Second, you see a small amount of the horde, which in turn are copypastad in the dozens or hundred two frames following a slightly modified Sovereign chasis missing his front tendril, with Harbingers yellow eyes.  Third, they added two new non-Sentient Reaper types (codex only) that one takes the frame of the fat Reaper if you bother to do a sidequest.

Please use the proper terminology for Retcon, some of us (40k players) have seen it and are ashamed at this community for griping about an extension that doesn't really make a difference. 

[incinerator950]

genocidal villain wrote...

3 years isn't enough time to prepare for a Reaper invasion even if they plan to mass produce thanix cannons. Plus dreadnoughts are limited by the Treaty of Farixen. The ratio for building dreadnoughts is 5:3:1. For every 5 dreadnoughts built by the Turians the Asari and Salarians are allowed to build 3 and other Citadel races are allowed to build 1. Then look at how many dreadnoughts each race has 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human; also the volus only have 1 dreadnought. That's really not enough to stop the Reapers.

Thanix Cannons are not a crutch, please stop with this nonsense.  The Turians didn't produce a functioning prototype until well past six months after the Battle of the Citadel.  The gun didn't enter full production until most likely well after that, or even the SM. 

You are right about Dreadnought production.  With the Batarians being ravaged early in the war, you can't count how many they have.  The Quarians have their jury rigged live ships, and the Geth supposedly have as many as the Turians.  This doesn't count the Attritian rate of battles, how they're losing Dreadnoughts (Turians losing more then they can inflict a casualty on a Capital) 

[3DandBeyond]

Mysterious MacGuffin crucible + god boy space magic + defeatist attitude + impossibility factor (BW "We mean really it is impossible-forget about it and DIE") + lots of scary reapers (really we mean it it's impossible) + abandoned morality = real logical victory (a gift from the enemy involving forced speculation and head cannon) + cool conversation + art + great win on our terms (as given to us by the enemy without a fight at all)

Use of imagination + conventional weapons used unconventionally + innovative thinking + people fighting for survival + unity + diversity + going against a defeatest fatalistic attitude = fantasy (gift of impossibility from the writers) + too much speculation + very uncool action + no logic + lack of art

Usually when you take something back you are actually taking it, as in grabbing it from someone. Where does Shepard or anyone take back anything? The trailers should have said "The Reapers Give Back Earth With Conditions (and might become your neighbors or overlords)".

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Skirata129 wrote...

you failed to address my suggestion considering the Codex specifically states that four dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper capital ship. Meaning their combined firepower, not all four running into it, so size doesn't really matter. just how much force you bring to bear.

There aren't enough dreadnoughts in the galaxy even before the war for that too have worked, hell you see a Reaper blow up an Alliance dreadnought with a few shots over Vancouver at the start of the game.

[Skirata129]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

you failed to address my suggestion considering the Codex specifically states that four dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper capital ship. Meaning their combined firepower, not all four running into it, so size doesn't really matter. just how much force you bring to bear.

There aren't enough dreadnoughts in the galaxy even before the war for that too have worked, hell you see a Reaper blow up an Alliance dreadnought with a few shots over Vancouver at the start of the game.

yeah, they make for big targets. which is why I suggested changing up the tactics in my OP.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Mysterious MacGuffin crucible + god boy space magic + defeatist attitude + impossibility factor (BW "We mean really it is impossible-forget about it and DIE") + lots of scary reapers (really we mean it it's impossible) + abandoned morality = real logical victory (a gift from the enemy involving forced speculation and head cannon) + cool conversation + art + great win on our terms (as given to us by the enemy without a fight at all)

Use of imagination + conventional weapons used unconventionally + innovative thinking + people fighting for survival + unity + diversity + going against a defeatest fatalistic attitude = fantasy (gift of impossibility from the writers) + too much speculation + very uncool action + no logic + lack of art

Usually when you take something back you are actually taking it, as in grabbing it from someone. Where does Shepard or anyone take back anything? The trailers should have said "The Reapers Give Back Earth With Conditions (and might become your neighbors or overlords)".

MacGuffin 
http://www.merriam-w...onary/macguffin 
an object, event, or character in a film or story that serves to set and keep the plot in motion despite usually lacking intrinsic importance .

There's a clear importance to the crucible. Thus it's not a macguffin.


Deus ex machina.
http://www.merriam-w...=0&t=1343765805 

: a god introduced by means of a crane in ancient Greek and Roman drama to decide the final outcome2:[/b] a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty.


The problem with calling the catalyst a dem is you first have to point out what he solves. He just added more problem.  The catalyst doesn't control what the crucible does. The crucible controls the catalyst.


Because of this the catalyst is not a dem.

Modifié par dreman9999, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:22 .

[Thaa_solon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do reapers look like this in ME3, NO THEY DON'T because they are retconned.

In me1 sovereign said: "are numbers will darken the sky of every world"

In me2 we see a few reapers "undisclosed ammount"

In me3 they are kinda everywhere(dispersed across the galaxy) but they are not blotting out the nearest star on a habitable world

So the reaper ships don't go to the number "IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT" only "very difficult"

Please Dreman9999 use LOGIC........THINK, facts can be decietful especially if they are retconned.

Agian, where in the story have the reapers number have been retconed?   Added, if it is a retcon, it's that of the looks of the reapers not the numbers.

Oh my science!?

If it is stated in the first game of an IMPOSSIBLE ammount of reaper, and yet in the second game we are not given numbers only a 5 sec clip of like MAX 300-400 capitol ships, then in the third game it is stated that most of them are destroyers.

So going from an unimaginable ammount of reapers to under 1000(wild guess) it that not a retconn?

Also in the first, second and half the third game it is established reapers could be defeated using GUNS, NUKES, CANNONS, BANANAS or [insert powerful weapon]

No it's just blablabla somethingsomethingsomething.......IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT THE CRUSIBLE

Mark my words, I DON'T BUY THE BS WITH THE CRUSIBLE

we can defeat them conventionally but the game doesn't allow us to.

Now please tell me, how many reapers ships(TOTAL) are established like in NUMBERS?

If you don't know then don't say

But as for now, this exchange is over

Enjoy contemplating the above stated

[dreman9999]

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Do reapers look like this in ME3, NO THEY DON'T because they are retconned.

In me1 sovereign said: "are numbers will darken the sky of every world"

In me2 we see a few reapers "undisclosed ammount"

In me3 they are kinda everywhere(dispersed across the galaxy) but they are not blotting out the nearest star on a habitable world

So the reaper ships don't go to the number "IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT" only "very difficult"

Please Dreman9999 use LOGIC........THINK, facts can be decietful especially if they are retconned.

Agian, where in the story have the reapers number have been retconed?   Added, if it is a retcon, it's that of the looks of the reapers not the numbers.

Oh my science!?

If it is stated in the first game of an IMPOSSIBLE ammount of reaper, and yet in the second game we are not given numbers only a 5 sec clip of like MAX 300-400 capitol ships, then in the third game it is stated that most of them are destroyers.

So going from an unimaginable ammount of reapers to under 1000(wild guess) it that not a retconn?

Also in the first, second and half the third game it is established reapers could be defeated using GUNS, NUKES, CANNONS, BANANAS or [insert powerful weapon]

No it's just blablabla somethingsomethingsomething.......IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT THE CRUSIBLE

Mark my words, I DON'T BUY THE BS WITH THE CRUSIBLE

we can defeat them conventionally but the game doesn't allow us to.

Now please tell me, how many reapers ships(TOTAL) are established like in NUMBERS?

If you don't know then don't say

But as for now, this exchange is over

Enjoy contemplating the above stated

All I have to do is point to the refuse end to show that your wrong.