MacGuffin http://www.merriam-w...onary/macguffin an object, event, or character in a film or story that serves to set and keep the plot in motion despite usually lacking intrinsic importance .
There's a clear importance to the crucible. Thus it's not a macguffin.
Uh, it usually but not always lacks intrinsic importance. A MacGuffin merely has to be desired a lot. The Holy Grail is a MacGuffin in the Indiana Jones movie.
A MacGuffin could be a large sum of money. It does not have to be uknown. Key word-usually.
And Mr. Godboy provides the solutions. He didn't have to create them. They exist in his house. If Shepard walked up to them s/he wouldn't know what to do with them without Mr. Know It All to say what they do.
If you believe the choices are real and solve the problem of the reapers, then the kid is a DeM. If you believe the choices could be false and may not solve the problem of the reapers, then the kid isn't a very good DeM. The writers believe the choices solve the problem of the reapers because they show happy scenes at the end and don't show reapers eating everyone. The kid is their DeM.
The catalyst is not a dem because the salution are not his. Everything comes from the crucilbe. He only tells you what it does. He has no power over anything. It's made clear he has no cantrol over anything.
Maybe 3 years would have been enough, maybe not. I still don't see any way to stop the Reapers from just obliterating the Citadel races' industrial base by bombing planets, even if the Reapers had an inferior fleet.
But in any event, they simply didn't mobilize 3 years before ME3.
Maybe the crucible could be a time warp device (dark energy) that allows them to make ships they can take back in time to before the reapers entered the galaxy (ok, I'm not serious).
So you want it to be the dark force factory that was in Kotor?
No, I want it to be a giant space tooth brush that wipes out cavities. Or maybe it could be a super space happy drug dispenser that makes all the reapers love the galaxy and want to give it one big hug. Then they can all go flying off together holding er, tentacles.
Uncle Jo wrote... No, I blame the writers to have put themselves in a corner, while it was easy to say in ME2 or even at the beginning of ME3, that the Galaxy began (and achieved) a massive rearmament after the Sovereign's matter, in prevision of the Reapers invasion. It wouldn't even have changed the ME2 plot. Just two lines said by any councilor and we would have been out of the whole magical super-weapon BS.
This exactly. We get hung up in all this and argue because of one word the writers inserted and kept having repeated. Impossible. Well then why even try to do anything? Let's all run off to Ilos.
We don't neeed to run off to Ilos.We have the Crucible.
Maybe 3 years would have been enough, maybe not. I still don't see any way to stop the Reapers from just obliterating the Citadel races' industrial base by bombing planets, even if the Reapers had an inferior fleet.
But in any event, they simply didn't mobilize 3 years before ME3.
Maybe the crucible could be a time warp device (dark energy) that allows them to make ships they can take back in time to before the reapers entered the galaxy (ok, I'm not serious).
So you want it to be the dark force factory that was in Kotor?
No, I want it to be a giant space tooth brush that wipes out cavities. Or maybe it could be a super space happy drug dispenser that makes all the reapers love the galaxy and want to give it one big hug. Then they can all go flying off together holding er, tentacles.
Sound that you what to win with no compromises. Added, what you just said happen in synthesis.
How would the original plot not allow for somethinglike the crucilbe to be used? The concept of the reaper being an unbeatable force never changed from the start of the planning of ME. Even if the orignal plot was kept, we still beusing a super weapon to beat them.
Read the codex. The Reapers incredibly strong but not invicible. All you have to do, is build enough of big guns and think of further upgrades. You had three years for this.
It's less retarded than making the whole Galaxy utterly blind and stupid.
The catalyst is not a dem because the salution are not his. Everything comes from the crucilbe. He only tells you what it does. He has no power over anything.
Well maybe you want to consult the writers on that so they can change where he actually says he controls some stuff like reapers which means he does have some power.
I also seem to remember him saying he needed new solutions because his old ones weren't working. If I need new shoes because my old shoes aren't "working", I'm usually talking about my shoes and not someone else's shoes. They are the ones I put on my feet and in my closet in my house-just like the kid has the choices for his new solution in his house. And since the citadel is a part of him like my foot is a part of me and the solutions are kind of like on his foot. My shoes are on my feet. His solutions are on his feet. Or maybe the solutions are more like a thong, up the butt crack.
MacGuffin http://www.merriam-w...onary/macguffin an object, event, or character in a film or story that serves to set and keep the plot in motion despite usually lacking intrinsic importance .
There's a clear importance to the crucible. Thus it's not a macguffin.
Uh, it usually but not always lacks intrinsic importance. A MacGuffin merely has to be desired a lot. The Holy Grail is a MacGuffin in the Indiana Jones movie.
A MacGuffin could be a large sum of money. It does not have to be uknown. Key word-usually.
That renders the MacGuffin concept so broad as to be virtually useless.
No it doesn't. It's the idea that people will chase after it to the exclusion sometimes of all else, even if they don't know why. They can be used effectively. Indiana Jones' movies are based almost solely around a MacGuffin. The Maltese Falcon was one. Treasure and so on are MacGuffins. But if you are using it in place of doing other logical things and don't know why you want it then it's poorly written. If the crucible were some known thing it would make more sense. But they have no idea what it will do other than that it has a lot of power. It could just destroy everything and maybe that was what it was intended to do. Maybe whoever created it was employing the slash and burn tactic, but no one knows. And even when Shepard does know, s/he doesn't really know.
Uncle Jo wrote... No, I blame the writers to have put themselves in a corner, while it was easy to say in ME2 or even at the beginning of ME3, that the Galaxy began (and achieved) a massive rearmament after the Sovereign's matter, in prevision of the Reapers invasion. It wouldn't even have changed the ME2 plot. Just two lines said by any councilor and we would have been out of the whole magical super-weapon BS.
This exactly. We get hung up in all this and argue because of one word the writers inserted and kept having repeated. Impossible. Well then why even try to do anything? Let's all run off to Ilos.
We don't neeed to run off to Ilos.We have the Crucible.
At the very beginning they didn't and even with the crucible which is a big mystery they have to fight until it's built. How do you fight if you can't fight?
Your not getting it. Current Steath systems can be tracked by reapers. Only the normady can hide from reapers because EDI can mimic reapers.... We show that the reapers can track our current stealth systems in ME2. ME2 open with the sr-1, which was in stealth mode, being shot out of the sky by the collectors that found it with no problem.
Also, you enzo bomb/ astrioid plan would fail because the reaper will see it coming and blow it out of the sky or just move out of the way.
And the microjump tactic fail on the count that the reaper have much more number then we do and stronger close range weapons. We would be grinding our ships in mass just to kill a few reaper ships.
EDI mimics Reapers..possibly. But remember, EDI was tracked by Oculus probes after the Omega-3 relay in ME2, so I'm pretty much discounting stealth completely. Quarians made a stealth ship similar to the Normandy, but again, I have no idea how effective the Normandy is against Reaper sensors.
Eezo bomb/Asteroid plan might fail, might not. I don't know too much about physics, but I do know that lightspeed takes a minute to run up to, and nothing conventional travels that fast.
Scenario: Say the Reapers are chatting with the Relays, which tell the Reapers that a small fleet is coming. The fleet consists of 4 dreadnoughts, 2 frigates and 12 fireships, which look like fighters or something. The Fighters have data coming from the crucible on exact Reaper locations, including the maneuvers made to evade the incoming fleet. Remember, the Reapers can't track the incoming ships due to their traveling pretty close to the speed of light, while the incoming ships know exactly where the Reapers are at all times.
Fireships accelerate to a fraction of c, and onboard geth/pilots direct the ship at target. Counter-shots would take out a considerable number of the fireships, but a few would get through. Boom.
On the microjump tactic; yes, it didn't work for the Turians, the galaxies best/brightest...except the galaxy has never encountered the Geth (okay, one encounter at the Battle of the Citadel in ME1). Geth are now equal to organics in the mental department, and vastly superior in calculative power. Jump in, hold the Reapers attention, blow the fireships through and jump out. Many Geth probably dead, or broadcast to a "last save" server.
Except, the Reapers have a slow rebuild capacity, remember how long it took the Collectors to build a baby Reaper? Two years minimum. Maybe the Reapers could do it faster than the Collectors, but it would still be a matter of months, excluding their DNA requirements.
One more example: kamikaze pilots in WWII inflicted the most damage the US navy suffered throughout the war, in the shortest amount of time. Yes the Reapers could adapt, but couldn't they adapt to Thanix beams as well? Doesn't a Thanix beam accelerate a liquid iron droplet to a fraction of c?
I don't say this is the only way, or even that it's probable. I just say it's possible. But that's just me
Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:16 .
Father_Jerusalem wrote... Worst case? The Earth is 4.6 billion years old. So that's the bare minimum of when the Reapers "could" have started the cycle.
Assuming one Soverign per cycle? 96,000 Soverigns.
Assuming 3 Destroyers per cycle? 276,000 Destroyers.
That's about where I'd put "worst" case at.
Which, by the way, is not something I'm suggesting they have - if anything, I'd assume their numbers are somewhere in the middle of the two, but I always try to use "best" case in order to argue, simply because "best" case is still INCREDIBLY FREAKING BAD to try and overcome.
Why does Earth's age come into it? And how is assuming a constant Reaper reproduction number without accounting for casualties the "best case" scenario? If the Reapers thought that way, their odds would be much worse than they currently think. If there are atleast 20,000; then where are they all? The majority of their forces are in Sol, and there aren't even 100 in the space battle near the end of the game. And don't tell me the rest of them are busy harvesting on Earth because that is ridiculous. The most we've ever seen were 295.
Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.
As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.
How would the original plot not allow for somethinglike the crucilbe to be used? The concept of the reaper being an unbeatable force never changed from the start of the planning of ME. Even if the orignal plot was kept, we still beusing a super weapon to beat them.
Read the codex. The Reapers incredibly strong but not invicible. All you have to do, is build enough of big guns and think of further upgrades. You had three years for this.
It's less retarded than making the whole Galaxy utterly blind and stupid.
I already readwhat it says in the codex. All it leads to is that we can kill some of them with noraml tacatic not the vast majority. If we are facing one, sure we can kill it. A few, maybe. The entrie fleet, no way in hell.
How would the original plot not allow for somethinglike the crucilbe to be used? The concept of the reaper being an unbeatable force never changed from the start of the planning of ME. Even if the orignal plot was kept, we still beusing a super weapon to beat them.
Read the codex. The Reapers incredibly strong but not invicible. All you have to do, is build enough of big guns and think of further upgrades. You had three years for this.
It's less retarded than making the whole Galaxy utterly blind and stupid.
I already readwhat it says in the codex. All it leads to is that we can kill some of them with noraml tacatic not the vast majority. If we are facing one, sure we can kill it. A few, maybe. The entrie fleet, no way in hell.
It seems that you didn't read my posts or missed the point I was wanting to make.
Your not getting it. Current Steath systems can be tracked by reapers. Only the normady can hide from reapers because EDI can mimic reapers.... We show that the reapers can track our current stealth systems in ME2. ME2 open with the sr-1, which was in stealth mode, being shot out of the sky by the collectors that found it with no problem.
Also, you enzo bomb/ astrioid plan would fail because the reaper will see it coming and blow it out of the sky or just move out of the way.
And the microjump tactic fail on the count that the reaper have much more number then we do and stronger close range weapons. We would be grinding our ships in mass just to kill a few reaper ships.
EDI mimics Reapers..possibly. But remember, EDI was tracked by Oculus probes after the Omega-3 relay in ME2, so I'm pretty much discounting stealth completely. Quarians made a stealth ship similar to the Normandy, but again, I have no idea how effective the Normandy is against Reaper sensors.
Eezo bomb/Asteroid plan might fail, might not. I don't know too much about physics, but I do know that lightspeed takes a minute to run up to, and nothing conventional travels that fast.
Scenario: Say the Reapers are chatting with the Relays, which tell the Reapers that a small fleet is coming. The fleet consists of 4 dreadnoughts, 2 frigates and 12 fireships, which look like fighters or something. The Fighters have data coming from the crucible on exact Reaper locations, including the maneuvers made to evade the incoming fleet. Remember, the Reapers can't track the incoming ships due to their traveling pretty close to the speed of light, while the incoming ships know exactly where the Reapers are at all times.
Fireships accelerate to a fraction of c, and onboard geth/pilots direct the ship at target. Counter-shots would take out a considerable number of the fireships, but a few would get through. Boom.
On the microjump tactic; yes, it didn't work for the Turians, the galaxies best/brightest...except the galaxy has never encountered the Geth (okay, one encounter at the Battle of the Citadel in ME1). Geth are now equal to organics in the mental department, and vastly superior in calculative power. Jump in, hold the Reapers attention, blow the fireships through and jump out. Many Geth probably dead, or broadcast to a "last save" server.
Except, the Reapers have a slow rebuild capacity, remember how long it took the Collectors to build a baby Reaper? Two years minimum. Maybe the Reapers could do it faster than the Collectors, but it would still be a matter of months, excluding their DNA requirements.
One more example: kamikaze pilots in WWII inflicted the most damage the US navy suffered throughout the war, in the shortest amount of time. Yes the Reapers could adapt, but couldn't they adapt to Thanix beams as well? Doesn't a Thanix beam accelerate a liquid iron droplet to a fraction of c?
I don't say this is the only way, or even that it's probable. I just say it's possible. But that's just me
The oculus tracked the normady because it saw it. That is the only reason it found it. You still not getting that the normady can hide from reaper because of EDI. If the reapers see the ship, of couse she can't hide it. Justlike how the stealth systems work with the normany. The only way to hide from reaper sis to mimic them. The stealth systems we have can't hide us from them.
And for the jump idea your still not geting my point. Every time we use that tactic we will lose ships. Those ships will only take out a few reapers. We would run out of ship before even getting close to beating the reaper with that tactic. The reapers have vastly more ships then we do. Every conflict we have with them we loos more ships then they do. And the reaper are alrealy using the kamikaze tactic on us with the oculus. The oculus can dive into ship and destroy them from the inside out.
And you still not getting the fact of how much ships the reaper have. Losing ships is not a probelm because they vastly out number us and it take exteme lenght to destroy a reaper. Every time we killone reaper, we lose vast ammount of man power and ships.
AlanC9 wrote... That renders the MacGuffin concept so broad as to be virtually useless.
No it doesn't. It's the idea that people will chase after it to the exclusion sometimes of all else, even if they don't know why. They can be used effectively. Indiana Jones' movies are based almost solely around a MacGuffin. The Maltese Falcon was one. Treasure and so on are MacGuffins. But if you are using it in place of doing other logical things and don't know why you want it then it's poorly written. If the crucible were some known thing it would make more sense. But they have no idea what it will do other than that it has a lot of power. It could just destroy everything and maybe that was what it was intended to do. Maybe whoever created it was employing the slash and burn tactic, but no one knows. And even when Shepard does know, s/he doesn't really know.
Italed bits don't apply here. They want it because it's the only chance they've got.
If someone's going after something because he really does need it, you still want to call the thing a MacGuffin?
Why does Earth's age come into it? And how is assuming a constant Reaper reproduction number without accounting for casualties the "best case" scenario? If the Reapers thought that way, their odds would be much worse than they currently think. If there are atleast 20,000; then where are they all? The majority of their forces are in Sol, and there aren't even 100 in the space battle near the end of the game. And don't tell me the rest of them are busy harvesting on Earth because that is ridiculous. The most we've ever seen were 295.
Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.
As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.
Actually that would only be a human centric baseline for how old our star system is and not the whole galaxy. There are billions of stars out there and billions of worlds. One planet isn't going to tell you the age of the whole galaxy or even a major portion of it. Astrophysicists today actually measure Beryllium in globular cluster stars.
How would the original plot not allow for somethinglike the crucilbe to be used? The concept of the reaper being an unbeatable force never changed from the start of the planning of ME. Even if the orignal plot was kept, we still beusing a super weapon to beat them.
Read the codex. The Reapers incredibly strong but not invicible. All you have to do, is build enough of big guns and think of further upgrades. You had three years for this.
It's less retarded than making the whole Galaxy utterly blind and stupid.
I already readwhat it says in the codex. All it leads to is that we can kill some of them with noraml tacatic not the vast majority. If we are facing one, sure we can kill it. A few, maybe. The entrie fleet, no way in hell.
It seems that you didn't read my posts or missed the point that I was wanting to make.
No, you missed mine. 1. Thanix cannon need to be close to damege reapers.http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them
2. Reaper have more powerful close range weapons then we do... http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters.
3. The reaper have oculus in mass number to protect them and attack fighters and ship alike and can destroy our space ship by diving in them and destroying them form the inside out. http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Oculus
4. The reapers can make an endless ammout of husk, whichincludes oculuses...http://masseffect.wi...Reaper_Variants PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers.
5. The reaper vastly out number us...
So, to kill them wehave to get close...And getting close put our ships into more danger, and the fighter and defencive weopon can easilly kill our ships, and if the reaper have more numbers then we do....That mean convetion victroy is not possible.
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