1098 réponses à ce sujet

[WestLakeDragon]

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

[Father_Jerusalem]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.

As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.

The milky way is around 13.2 billion years old.

And I used the age of the Earth as a baseline to make the "worst" case scenario not as "worst" as it could POSSIBLY be. 

Yes, if the reapers started, say, 12.2 billion years ago it's even worse... but I chose not to use that as the baseline. I can, if people would prefer to be even more doomed, sure...

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
That renders the MacGuffin concept so broad as to be virtually useless.

No it doesn't.  It's the idea that people will chase after it to the exclusion sometimes of all else, even if they don't know why.  They can be used effectively.  Indiana Jones' movies are based almost solely around a MacGuffin.  The Maltese Falcon was one.  Treasure and so on are MacGuffins.  But if you are using it in place of doing other logical things and don't know why you want it then it's poorly written.  If the crucible were some known thing it would make more sense.  But they have no idea what it will do other than that it has a lot of power.  It could just destroy everything and maybe that was what it was intended to do.  Maybe whoever created it was employing the slash and burn tactic, but no one knows.  And even when Shepard does know, s/he doesn't really know.

Italed bits don't apply here. They want it because it's the only chance they've got.

If someone's going after something because he really does need it, you still want to call the thing a MacGuffin?

You can't know if you need something if you don't know what it is.  But again, money can be a MacGuffin.  A cure for something could be a MacGuffin.  It's more how it is used and in ME3 it's just not given enough reason to want it.  They have no idea what it will do.  They think it's a weapon, they are wrong.  They think the protheans made it and are wrong.  They have no real good reason to go after it but they want to get it first and think it will solve everything, so they don't try anything else.

[dreman9999]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

Because we get that from enzo, and we need enzo more to run our ships and tech.

[F4H bandicoot]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.

As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.

The milky way is around 13.2 billion years old.

And I used the age of the Earth as a baseline to make the "worst" case scenario not as "worst" as it could POSSIBLY be. 

Yes, if the reapers started, say, 12.2 billion years ago it's even worse... but I chose not to use that as the baseline. I can, if people would prefer to be even more doomed, sure...

Well you should have said that then, instead of saying you were using it as a baseline for the galaxy's age. 

[o Ventus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

Show, don't tell.

We're told that it can't be done, but we're shown (and actively take part in) the destruction of a number of Reapers. The codex also has a fair number of entries depicting Council races fighting (and even beating) Reaper fleets. It's the word of a few characters in the game versus hands-on evidence and (mildly) reliable text information.

Modifié par o Ventus, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:54 .

[3DandBeyond]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

 

Fling toxic poo.  Their kinetic barriers are not resistant to temperature extremes or toxins or radiation.  I say hot piles of radioactive toxic poo.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
That renders the MacGuffin concept so broad as to be virtually useless.

No it doesn't.  It's the idea that people will chase after it to the exclusion sometimes of all else, even if they don't know why.  They can be used effectively.  Indiana Jones' movies are based almost solely around a MacGuffin.  The Maltese Falcon was one.  Treasure and so on are MacGuffins.  But if you are using it in place of doing other logical things and don't know why you want it then it's poorly written.  If the crucible were some known thing it would make more sense.  But they have no idea what it will do other than that it has a lot of power.  It could just destroy everything and maybe that was what it was intended to do.  Maybe whoever created it was employing the slash and burn tactic, but no one knows.  And even when Shepard does know, s/he doesn't really know.

Italed bits don't apply here. They want it because it's the only chance they've got.

If someone's going after something because he really does need it, you still want to call the thing a MacGuffin?

You can't know if you need something if you don't know what it is.  But again, money can be a MacGuffin.  A cure for something could be a MacGuffin.  It's more how it is used and in ME3 it's just not given enough reason to want it.  They have no idea what it will do.  They think it's a weapon, they are wrong.  They think the protheans made it and are wrong.  They have no real good reason to go after it but they want to get it first and think it will solve everything, so they don't try anything else.

We know what it is. We just don't know what it does. 
Read it's codex entry.
http://masseffect.wi...gy#The_Crucible 

The Mars Archives describe a superweapon that the Alliance has named the Crucible, which exploits the technology of mass effect relays. Beyond the basic principles, however, researchers know little about how the weapon actually works.One popular theory suggests that since relays can transfer matter and energy across the galaxy with little regard for distance, it may be possible to create a weapon for which range is barely a factor. Duplicating the advanced science used to build the relays has proven difficult, however. If the Crucible were completed, the challenge would become tuning the weapon to kill a Reaper halfway across the galaxy without inflicting unthinkable levels of collateral damage.What is clear is that the Crucible's construction is a massive effort, drawing resources from throughout explored space. Staggering financial costs have been disregarded in the common effort to create something, anything, that can stop the Reapers.We clear know it's a weapon. How it works is what we don't know.

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

 

Fling toxic poo.  Their kinetic barriers are not resistant to temperature extremes or toxins or radiation.  I say hot piles of radioactive toxic poo.

Getting that to the reapers is the problem.

[o Ventus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

 

Fling toxic poo.  Their kinetic barriers are not resistant to temperature extremes or toxins or radiation.  I say hot piles of radioactive toxic poo.

Kill a bunch of Ravagers and throw the poo that comes out at the Reapers!

[WestLakeDragon]

dreman9999 wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

Because we get that from enzo, and we need enzo more to run our ships and tech.

We don't have Eezo now, yet here, on Earth, scientists can make anti-matter. Now, to make a bomb that would equal a nuclear device would take a pointless amount of energy, with today's technology, but that is what ME being set in the future is for, for better ways of generating the energy to create anti-matter.

[Father_Jerusalem]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.

As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.

The milky way is around 13.2 billion years old.

And I used the age of the Earth as a baseline to make the "worst" case scenario not as "worst" as it could POSSIBLY be. 

Yes, if the reapers started, say, 12.2 billion years ago it's even worse... but I chose not to use that as the baseline. I can, if people would prefer to be even more doomed, sure...

Well you should have said that then, instead of saying you were using it as a baseline for the galaxy's age. 

I was using it as a baseline because the galaxy is at LEAST that old, but since people are taking issue with those numbers, I'll readjust the worst case scenario.

Using a galaxy that is 12.2 billion years old, with a cycle of ~50,000 years, assuming 1 Soverign class every cycle and two Destroyers every cycle:

244,000 Soverigns.

488,000 Destroyers.

[3DandBeyond]

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dude.

This will not, and never can, apply to the Reapers.

You cannot win conventionally. You are told this twice before going to the Citadel for the first time.

You either use the Crucible that you have permission to use, or you die.

It's really ****ing simple.

Show, don't tell.

We're told that it can't be done, but we're shown (and actively take part in) the destruction of a number of Reapers. The codex also has a air number of entries depicting Council races fighting (and even beating) Reaper fleets. It's the word of a few characters in the game versus hands-on evidence and reliable text information.

Don't you get it.  You are told it's impossible and why is it impossible, because it's impossible.  No, really really impossible.  Get with it.  It's really impossible.  Oh, that cain worked.  Oh those missles worked.  Oh, no I am sure I read that it's impossible so that must mean "do not attempt this at home".  Stop fighting.  It's impossible.  Give up now.  And why is it impossible.  Because it's so much cooler to not fight in a story about fighting for survival.  Yes, that's right.  When you go to Take Earth Back, better ask the reapers to give it back really nicely because no way you are gonna fight for that.  Why?  It's impossible.

[Uncle Jo]

dreman9999 wrote...

*codex entries and overused Reapers Arrival's pic*

What I wanted to say is that if the Galaxy didn't reacted so stupidly after Sovereign' attack and instead of denying it ever happened, began to build warships en masse, using all their resources to achieve it, we could have had a chance against the Reapers. See what I mean ?

The whole problem is that we had some effective offensive upgrades (defensive too, see the Normandy in the suicide mission, but bizarrely they were ignored from the writers in ME3) against the Reapers but not enough warships. I assume that turning the galaxy's economy and industry into war-mode during the three last years would have been enough to take on the Reapers when they finally came. Even if at (very) high costs.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:51 .

[F4H bandicoot]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.

As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.

The milky way is around 13.2 billion years old.

And I used the age of the Earth as a baseline to make the "worst" case scenario not as "worst" as it could POSSIBLY be. 

Yes, if the reapers started, say, 12.2 billion years ago it's even worse... but I chose not to use that as the baseline. I can, if people would prefer to be even more doomed, sure...

Well you should have said that then, instead of saying you were using it as a baseline for the galaxy's age. 

I was using it as a baseline because the galaxy is at LEAST that old, but since people are taking issue with those numbers, I'll readjust the worst case scenario.

Using a galaxy that is 12.2 billion years old, with a cycle of ~50,000 years, assuming 1 Soverign class every cycle and two Destroyers every cycle:

244,000 Soverigns.

488,000 Destroyers.

I wasn't taking issue now, just questioning your wording as it made it seem as though the Galaxy was the age of the Earth, which it isn't.

That is a ****ing scary amount of Reapers though 

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

 

Fling toxic poo.  Their kinetic barriers are not resistant to temperature extremes or toxins or radiation.  I say hot piles of radioactive toxic poo.

Getting that to the reapers is the problem.

Giant poo guns.  Those are about as easy to make as Crucibles.  Even easier. I read it somewhere.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:52 .

[Uncle Jo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I was using it as a baseline because the galaxy is at LEAST that old, but since people are taking issue with those numbers, I'll readjust the worst case scenario.

Using a galaxy that is 12.2 billion years old, with a cycle of ~50,000 years, assuming 1 Soverign class every cycle and two Destroyers every cycle:

244,000 Soverigns.

488,000 Destroyers.

You're making a hell of an assumption here. Wo said that the Reapers are that old ? We only know for sure that the oldest one we found, is 1 billion years old.

EDIT: nvm I just read it was the worst case scenario.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 31 juillet 2012 - 09:54 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


Because that's a baseline for how old the galaxy is? Really, not you're just being purposfuly obtuse.

As for your "where are they all" question, do you really think that they're going to animate 20k+ Reapers? Really? Come on. At least TRY to be fair.

The milky way is around 13.2 billion years old.

And I used the age of the Earth as a baseline to make the "worst" case scenario not as "worst" as it could POSSIBLY be. 

Yes, if the reapers started, say, 12.2 billion years ago it's even worse... but I chose not to use that as the baseline. I can, if people would prefer to be even more doomed, sure...

Well you should have said that then, instead of saying you were using it as a baseline for the galaxy's age. 

I was using it as a baseline because the galaxy is at LEAST that old, but since people are taking issue with those numbers, I'll readjust the worst case scenario.

Using a galaxy that is 12.2 billion years old, with a cycle of ~50,000 years, assuming 1 Soverign class every cycle and two Destroyers every cycle:

244,000 Soverigns.

488,000 Destroyers.

I wasn't taking issue now, just questioning your wording as it made it seem as though the Galaxy was the age of the Earth, which it isn't.

That is a ****ing scary amount of Reapers though 

That's the ABSOLUTE worst case. Which nobody is advocating that they actually have. I just want that to be clear. 

But yes, it is terrifying to know how bad it COULD be.

[dreman9999]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

Because we get that from enzo, and we need enzo more to run our ships and tech.

We don't have Eezo now, yet here, on Earth, scientists can make anti-matter. Now, to make a bomb that would equal a nuclear device would take a pointless amount of energy, with today's technology, but that is what ME being set in the future is for, for better ways of generating the energy to create anti-matter.

The science we have now don't and can't make the anti-matter in mass the way we need for this war. The older way would not make enough to even  be worth a proper source.

[o Ventus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Don't you get it.  You are told it's impossible and why is it impossible, because it's impossible.  No, really really impossible.  Get with it.  It's really impossible.  Oh, that cain worked.  Oh those missles worked.  Oh, no I am sure I read that it's impossible so that must mean "do not attempt this at home".  Stop fighting.  It's impossible.  Give up now.  And why is it impossible.  Because it's so much cooler to not fight in a story about fighting for survival.  Yes, that's right.  When you go to Take Earth Back, better ask the reapers to give it back really nicely because no way you are gonna fight for that.  Why?  It's impossible.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I was using it as a baseline because the galaxy is at LEAST that old, but since people are taking issue with those numbers, I'll readjust the worst case scenario.

Using a galaxy that is 12.2 billion years old, with a cycle of ~50,000 years, assuming 1 Soverign class every cycle and two Destroyers every cycle:

244,000 Soverigns.

488,000 Destroyers.

You're making a hell of an assumption here. Wo said that the Reapers are that old ? We only know for sure that the oldest one we found, is 1 billion years old.

Someone asked for "worst case". I gave them "worst case". Now I'm being criticized for giving out "worst case".

Sigh,

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

WestLakeDragon wrote...

I say we just hurl anti-matter at them for a while. It is non-combustion, so why the hell not.

 

Fling toxic poo.  Their kinetic barriers are not resistant to temperature extremes or toxins or radiation.  I say hot piles of radioactive toxic poo.

Getting that to the reapers is the problem.

Giant poo guns.  Those are about as easy to make as Crucibles.  Even easier. I read it somewhere.

Getting the projectiles to the reapers is the problem. Toxic goo is a mass. It's toxin radiation that gets through, as in the wave lenght.

[Uncle Jo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Someone asked for "worst case". I gave them "worst case". Now I'm being criticized for giving out "worst case".

Sigh,

I know, I edited my previous post. My bad.

[Taboo]

I think it's more that in this cycle it's impossible BECAUSE we weren't prepared. Had we had time to prepare things might have been different.

In theory, if you spent a long enough time prepared you COULD do so. But not in this cycle.

You have to use Mac Walters' plot device.

[Seival]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Seival wrote...
I don't think so. I believe that any type of conventional victory can only ruin the beautiful ending concept.

Que?

I only saw a horrible mish-mash of ideas done better elsewhere that ended up as an abomination in ME3.

Then I'm afraid you didn't understand the ending's concept correctly yet. I can suggest you to read all endings support threads. They are quite interesting, and may help you