1098 réponses à ce sujet

[Uncle Jo]

Seival wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Seival wrote...

I find BioWare's explanation of Normandy Crash Scene much better then my old theory about test-flights. Mass Relays were not destroyed forever, as I expected. And I'm happy

Well, and I'm happy that for me

*snip*
Wish the same feeling for you

You asked for it.

*snip*

That support thread was good, but faced a lot of misunderstanding, just like the original Normandy Crash Scene.

Anyway, the scene was not removed, Mass Relays were not destroyed forever, and I did right thing creating that thread. It was really hard to oppose so many confused players almost alone, but I did it. And I want to say thanks to the ones, who created really constructive replies in that thread. They did good job.

...Well, and I wish all confused people here to understand and accept the endings as they are. You will be quite happy after that, believe me

I really admire your idealism.

[Sajuro]

Wait, the military is fighting mecha space cthullus? when did this happen?

[Seival]

Sajuro wrote...

Wait, the military is fighting mecha space cthullus? when did this happen?

[incinerator950]

Sajuro wrote...

Wait, the military is fighting mecha space cthullus? when did this happen?

Probably long after Drew saw Cthulhutech and said "Hey, I want to make a race similar to this."

[Krunjar]

The difference between us and other humans is not the same as the difference between the council races and the reapers. It is indeed possible for a technologically inferior force to defeat a superior force if the factors and variables surrounding the engagement can be made to favor the inferior force heavily. There also must always be at least enough closeness that the weapons of the attackers are even effective. Sure pt boats armed with rockets but try attacking a carrier with bows and arrows and see how far that gets you. War is not so simple that it boils down to a

IF Yourtek > Enemytek Outcome = win.

But there is a limit.

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...

The difference between us and other humans is not the same as the difference between the council races and the reapers. It is indeed possible for a technologically inferior force to defeat a superior force if the factors and variables surrounding the engagement can be made to favor the inferior force heavily. There also must always be at least enough closeness that the weapons of the attackers are even effective. Sure pt boats armed with rockets but try attacking a carrier with bows and arrows and see how far that gets you. War is not so simple that it boils down to a

IF Yourtek > Enemytek Outcome = win.

But there is a limit.

But the difference isn't cruise missiles versus bows in the ME'verse. It's like F-22's versus F-15's.
The Normandy probably rates as an F-35 in that analogy.

[Krunjar]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

The difference between us and other humans is not the same as the difference between the council races and the reapers. It is indeed possible for a technologically inferior force to defeat a superior force if the factors and variables surrounding the engagement can be made to favor the inferior force heavily. There also must always be at least enough closeness that the weapons of the attackers are even effective. Sure pt boats armed with rockets but try attacking a carrier with bows and arrows and see how far that gets you. War is not so simple that it boils down to a

IF Yourtek > Enemytek Outcome = win.

But there is a limit.

But the difference isn't cruise missiles versus bows in the ME'verse. It's like F-22's versus F-15's.
The Normandy probably rates as an F-35 in that analogy.

Not being offensive but that sounds like headcannon to me. To me the reapers are advanced enough that bows vs carriers is a more proper analogy if you want to dispute this then we will just have to agree to disagree. But seeing as how the reapers have had thousands of times more time than any of the council races i would say that the difference is if anything even more profound.

[Doofe2012]

The technology gap is way different. A better analogy would be pitting rowboats crewed by musket-armed soldiers against a carrier battlegroup.

Also, I remember that exercise. They completely covered up the fact that low tech beat high tech. And they even had the leader of the low tech group handicap himself so the high tech group could win. Completely ridiculous.

If anyone here wonders why the NATO forces are so unsuccessful in the Middle East, it's because field commanders are so overly reliant on technology. They eventually forget the basics of shoot, move, communicate.

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...

Not being offensive but that sounds like headcannon to me. To me the reapers are advanced enough that bows vs carriers is a more proper analogy if you want to dispute this then we will just have to agree to disagree. But seeing as how the reapers have had thousands of times more time than any of the council races i would say that the difference is if anything even more profound.

Not really. They use kinetic barriers, just better. We use the same weaponry (see Thanix), they just use it better. We use the same drive tech, the just use it better.

The bows bit would be more appropriate if we were still using spacecraft that can barely travel our solar system and the best we had for space stations would be a much bigger ISS.

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...
You can't know if you need something if you don't know what it is.  But again, money can be a MacGuffin.  A cure for something could be a MacGuffin.  It's more how it is used and in ME3 it's just not given enough reason to want it.  They have no idea what it will do.  They think it's a weapon, they are wrong.  They think the protheans made it and are wrong.  They have no real good reason to go after it but they want to get it first and think it will solve everything, so they don't try anything else.

Italed bit is nonsense unless you've got a workable alternative plan.

And who says they're not trying anything else? They're fighting as hard and as well as they can. It's just not going to work.

So... a MacGuffin is something that 3DandBeyond thinks the characters don't have a good enough reason to want. Or that isn't used "enough" in the plot?

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 juillet 2012 - 11:01 .

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...
And who says they're not trying anything else? They're fighting as hard and as well as they can. It's just not going to work.

The narrative. There is no plan B besides "Just do what we are doing now."
No new tech, at all. Crucible or bust, which is stupid.

[incinerator950]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Not being offensive but that sounds like headcannon to me. To me the reapers are advanced enough that bows vs carriers is a more proper analogy if you want to dispute this then we will just have to agree to disagree. But seeing as how the reapers have had thousands of times more time than any of the council races i would say that the difference is if anything even more profound.

Not really. They use kinetic barriers, just better. We use the same weaponry (see Thanix), they just use it better. We use the same drive tech, the just use it better.

The bows bit would be more appropriate if we were still using spacecraft that can barely travel our solar system and the best we had for space stations would be a much bigger ISS.

Except they made all of the technology we use.  Its not using it, they are more advanced.  They outgun us, out number us, their technologically superior in everyway.  I see what you're saying, but the comparison is more aquivilant to a WW2 Fighter fighting an F-22.  Their soldiers are expendable recycled technozombies from our dead civilians and casualties.  They don't have supply lines except Husk Carriers, and they don't refuel as we understand Eezo drives.

Entire Cruiser squadrons get swatted away, the only viable weakness is when the Reapers present themselves as a weakness.  Such as Suicide bombing Turians or Reapers forcing their Mass Energy output to low levels to engage a flanking enemy. 

Any form of Guerilla warfare is countered by attacking our sources, our homeworlds, industry centers, and refueling stations.  Which, Guerilla warfare has been most successful at picking apart enemies, to destroy their weakest and force them to leave or route themselves.  In most cases, its forcing people to leave, which there was an equal or near state of technological equivilance.  Which we seriously lack.

Please don't make me explain why the Thanix Cannon is not a crutch.  I'm seriously sick and tired of it when everyone think its a means to instant victory.  

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Then you don't get it.

Control=rewriting the reapers.
Destroy= physical stopping the reaper/ turning them off.
synthesis=upgrading the reaper to let them do what they areprogramed to do in a better way.

You don't say?! {/sarcasm]

Though that's not what Synthesis means, at all.
It somehow balances the differences between synthetics and organics so they will never ever fight each other again. Ever.

Your really not getting what I mean. Yes, synthesis brings balance to synthetic and orgainics but it also allows the reaper to do what they orginaly were programed to do in a different way. It's still is upgrading the reapers.

[AlanC9]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think it's more that in this cycle it's impossible BECAUSE we weren't prepared. Had we had time to prepare things might have been different.

In theory, if you spent a long enough time prepared you COULD do so. But not in this cycle.

You have to use Mac Walters' plot device.

Yep, pretty much. Bio could have set up the universe in all sorts of ways, many of which would have made conventional victory possible. But they didn't set up the universe any of those ways.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 juillet 2012 - 11:06 .

[AlanC9]

incinerator950 wrote...
Please don't make me explain why the Thanix Cannon is not a crutch.  I'm seriously sick and tired of it when everyone think its a means to instant victory.  

How is something that's derived from Reaper tech supposed to make us superios to the Reapers, anyway? I sometimes wonder if people are actually being serious, or if they're just trying to construct some kind of rationalization to get to the result they want.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And who says they're not trying anything else? They're fighting as hard and as well as they can. It's just not going to work.

The narrative. There is no plan B besides "Just do what we are doing now."
No new tech, at all. Crucible or bust, which is stupid.

The narriative says thay are doing theses tactics already.

[Ticonderoga117]

incinerator950 wrote...
Except they made all of the technology we use.  Its not using it, they are more advanced.  They outgun us, out number us, their technologically superior in everyway.  I see what you're saying, but the comparison is more aquivilant to a WW2 Fighter fighting an F-22.  Their soldiers are expendable recycled technozombies from our dead civilians and casualties.  They don't have supply lines except Husk Carriers, and they don't refuel as we understand Eezo drives.

Yeah, they are more advanced, but we do use the same tech they do. That's why it's not a carrier vs. bows.
They do outgun us, sure. Outnumber us? I doubt that for Space matters. If they have more than 40,000 Reapers, we would be screwed even with the Crucible just from shear numbers. The difference isn't that big honestly.
Also, as an aside, I don't think eezo cores need refueling. I think the refueling process is only for the thruster fuel that actually does the pushing.

Entire Cruiser squadrons get swatted away, the only viable weakness is when the Reapers present themselves as a weakness.  Such as Suicide bombing Turians or Reapers forcing their Mass Energy output to low levels to engage a flanking enemy. 

Not necessarily. Weapons do exist that bypass kinetic barriers, which as ME1 showed, is thier KEY advantage in space combat. Nuetralize that advantage and things are looking much much better.

Any form of Guerilla warfare is countered by attacking our sources, our homeworlds, industry centers, and refueling stations.  Which, Guerilla warfare has been most successful at picking apart enemies, to destroy their weakest and force them to leave or route themselves.  In most cases, its forcing people to leave, which there was an equal or near state of technological equivilance.  Which we seriously lack.

But this is the best tactic to fight groundside Reapers. On the ground, they are the most vulnerable because thier kinetic barriers aren't as strong.

Please don't make me explain why the Thanix Cannon is not a crutch.  I'm seriously sick and tired of it when everyone think its a means to instant victory.  

Never said it was, but it is a help. Other weapons can be developed to easily fight these bastards.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
The narriative says thay are doing theses tactics already.

No they aren't. Crucible or bust. That is what the narrative constantly tells us.

dreman9999 wrote...
Your really not getting what I mean. Yes,
synthesis brings balance to synthetic and orgainics but it also allows
the reaper to do what they orginaly were programed to do in a different
way. It's still is upgrading the reapers.

So it upgrades them to kill us better? Since you know, that was the entire point of ME1 and ME2.

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
And who says they're not trying anything else? They're fighting as hard and as well as they can. It's just not going to work.

The narrative. There is no plan B besides "Just do what we are doing now."
No new tech, at all. Crucible or bust, which is stupid.

You mean, we haven't seen them invent any new magic tech that one-shots Reapers? Nope. They haven't invented anything magical over the few months that ME3 covers.

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
But this is the best tactic to fight groundside Reapers. On the ground, they are the most vulnerable because thier kinetic barriers aren't as strong. 

Agreed. But the fact that the Reapers are on planets in the first place is an indication of their superiority. They're so unworried about our military that they're proceeding with the harvest rather than fighting defensively.

Just for kicks, are you saying that Bio intended to make a conventional war unwinnable but somehow didn't make the ME3 Reapers tough enough for that to be true? If so, how much tougher should Bio have made them?

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 juillet 2012 - 11:24 .

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...
Except they made all of the technology we use.  Its not using it, they are more advanced.  They outgun us, out number us, their technologically superior in everyway.  I see what you're saying, but the comparison is more aquivilant to a WW2 Fighter fighting an F-22.  Their soldiers are expendable recycled technozombies from our dead civilians and casualties.  They don't have supply lines except Husk Carriers, and they don't refuel as we understand Eezo drives.

Yeah, they are more advanced, but we do use the same tech they do. That's why it's not a carrier vs. bows.
They do outgun us, sure. Outnumber us? I doubt that for Space matters. If they have more than 40,000 Reapers, we would be screwed even with the Crucible just from shear numbers. The difference isn't that big honestly.
Also, as an aside, I don't think eezo cores need refueling. I think the refueling process is only for the thruster fuel that actually does the pushing.

Entire Cruiser squadrons get swatted away, the only viable weakness is when the Reapers present themselves as a weakness.  Such as Suicide bombing Turians or Reapers forcing their Mass Energy output to low levels to engage a flanking enemy. 

Not necessarily. Weapons do exist that bypass kinetic barriers, which as ME1 showed, is thier KEY advantage in space combat. Nuetralize that advantage and things are looking much much better.

Any form of Guerilla warfare is countered by attacking our sources, our homeworlds, industry centers, and refueling stations.  Which, Guerilla warfare has been most successful at picking apart enemies, to destroy their weakest and force them to leave or route themselves.  In most cases, its forcing people to leave, which there was an equal or near state of technological equivilance.  Which we seriously lack.

But this is the best tactic to fight groundside Reapers. On the ground, they are the most vulnerable because thier kinetic barriers aren't as strong.

Please don't make me explain why the Thanix Cannon is not a crutch.  I'm seriously sick and tired of it when everyone think its a means to instant victory.  

Never said it was, but it is a help. Other weapons can be developed to easily fight these bastards.

1. The numberS is a large differance. It made clear bythe galexy map in the end of ME3. Sure, our tech can hurt them but for us to hurt them, it will risk us losing alot of ships. And they still have the endless husk forces.

2.Those weapons have to get close to be used.....In an area the reapers are the most dangerous. It would be like us losing our bone it get to the tagets flesh.
If it was  us losing flesh to get bone, the tactic would work.
3.There is not real best tactic on a ground war with the reapers. The asai tried that and were over wheled, the tutian did it and were over whelemed, ans well every race. The reaper just pour near endless ammount of husk at there targets with no stop till they tire them out.  We always loseing the ground war.
4.But it take time to do so and resources. We have little time, and the reapers are destroying our resources.

[dreman9999]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
But this is the best tactic to fight groundside Reapers. On the ground, they are the most vulnerable because thier kinetic barriers aren't as strong. 

Agreed. But the fact that the Reapers are on planets in the first place is an indication of their superiority. They're so unworried about our military that they're proceeding with the harvest rather than fighting defensively.

Not true at all.Wew have to get thtough their husk forces first and let not add airial bombment to get through. A ground war with the reaper is worse then a space war.

[AlanC9]

dreman9999 wrote...
4.But it take time to do so and resources. We have little time, and the reapers are destroying our resources.

Note that by the endgame the Reapers control over 50% of the inhabited galaxy. Control. Now add in the places they wrecked but don't control yet, like Bekenstein and Palaven. What's galactic GDP compared to prewar? 30%? Less? And dropping.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The narriative says thay are doing theses tactics already.

No they aren't. Crucible or bust. That is what the narrative constantly tells us.

dreman9999 wrote...
Your really not getting what I mean. Yes,
synthesis brings balance to synthetic and orgainics but it also allows
the reaper to do what they orginaly were programed to do in a different
way. It's still is upgrading the reapers.

So it upgrades them to kill us better? Since you know, that was the entire point of ME1 and ME2.

1. Talk to Hachett and he tells yu the other tacts they are try in the war.
2. No, you not getting that the reaper don't want to kill us. It was made clear in ec. The reaper persevation salution was only choosen because they had no other way to bring peace. The synthesis allws the reaper to do what they areprogramed to do with out killing anyone or making them into reapers. That was made clear inthe synthesis ending.

[AlanC9]

dreman9999 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
But this is the best tactic to fight groundside Reapers. On the ground, they are the most vulnerable because thier kinetic barriers aren't as strong. 

Agreed. But the fact that the Reapers are on planets in the first place is an indication of their superiority. They're so unworried about our military that they're proceeding with the harvest rather than fighting defensively.

Not true at all.Wew have to get thtough their husk forces first and let not add airial bombment to get through. A ground war with the reaper is worse then a space war.

I meant their superiority in overall military strength. I agree they're weaker on planets. The fact that they're accepting planetary combat shows that this doesn't concern them. If they didn't want to fight on planets they wouldn't have to.