1098 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Did I mention that I support any tactic that doesn't involve the multicolored explosion manufacturing machine?

Because I do.

[dirty console peasant]

Han Shot First wrote...

Once the Reapers invade, it is too late to overhaul your fleet. You have to fight with the fleet you have rather than the fleet you want.

Upgrading all of your fighters and frigates with Thanix cannons would take years.

They could have spent all the resources that they wasted on the space magic cannon on something that they knew how it worked.  For instance arming every ship that they could with Thanix Cannons.

[Skirata129]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

Did YOU read the full OP? I addressed that point specifically. in fact, it was the ENTIRE point of the OP.

[inko1nsiderate]

Skirata129 wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

Did YOU read the full OP? I addressed that point specifically. in fact, it was the ENTIRE point of the OP.

I didn't read the full op, but I edited my original post to address your point.  Your point is still stupid.

[Undead Han]

Rustedness wrote...

It would work if the writers wanted it to. They did not want it to. That simple unfortunately *sadface*

The writers could have had Shepard win that way, but it wouldn't have been plausible. Overhauling an entire fleet would be a process that would take years. Shipyards would also be an early target for the Reapes, particularly if the galaxy was sending large amounts of ships into 'drydock' to get overhauled with bigger weapons.

In short, once the Reapers invade it is too late to fight with anything but the fleet you have.

They could have spent all the resources that they wasted on the space magic cannon on something that they knew how it worked.  For instance arming every ship that they could with Thanix Cannons.

The Crucible defeats the Reapers: therefore its construction does not represent wasted resources, regardless of how the player feels about it as a plot device.

Second, overhauling an entire fleet would take years. The galaxy does not have that long, and shipyards would be among the first targets.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[MegaSovereign]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Once the Reapers invade, it is too late to overhaul your fleet. You have to fight with the fleet you have rather than the fleet you want.

Upgrading all of your fighters and frigates with Thanix cannons would take years.

They could have spent all the resources that they wasted on the space magic cannon on something that they knew how it worked.  For instance arming every ship that they could with Thanix Cannons.

Did you not read his post? Building one super weapon is easier and faster than retrofitting hundreds of ships with Thanix Cannons.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Conventionally Victory = Impossible was established in the third game.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Skirata129 wrote...

the theory is proven as Thanix cannons were installed on the Normandy, showing that ships significantly below dreadnaught class are perfectly capable of carrying them. also, not worrying too much about armor makes sense. It reduces weight, making the ships more maneuverable, makes them less resource intensive and time consuming to crank out one after another, and besides, what does armor matter? a hit from a capital ship is going to bring down a fighter no matter what.

Yes but fitting them on a single-seat fighter is too much. A fighter can only power small pew-pew guns capable of killing other fighters, how'll it power a dreadnought-class gun? Also, lower armour means it won't even take a capital ship to bring you down. Fighters would do that just fine.

I'm sorry but I can accept fitting such weapon on frigates, but not fighters. I'd be like fitting tank guns on bikes or antimatter cannons on pyjaks

Modifié par pirate1802, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:48 .

[dirty console peasant]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

[andy6915]

Skirata129 wrote...
who said anything about guarding the relays? they're positioned there so as to be able to reinforce any beleaguered world quickly.

...you haven't studied much of military history or tactics, have you?

I thought you meant blockading mass relays with our fleets to keep the Reapers from travelling freely throughout the galaxy. No?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Okay here's the idea! We hang huge *Gone Extinct" signs on every inhabited planet in the galaxy.

Then we hide everyone in metal boxes.

It's the only solution that makes any sense.

[dirty console peasant]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Conventionally Victory = Impossible was established in the third game.

Impossible = Possible when shepard is involved, was established in other two games
therefore ... Conventional Victory = Possible

[Skirata129]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

so it's specifically stated that a Thanix cannon can be mounted on a fighter.

[inko1nsiderate]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

Fine.  Then your point is that all of the fighters and frigates already have Thanix, and still are unable to pierce the kinetic barriers of the Dreadnought class Reapers with anything smaller than a Dreadnought class weapon...

The point remains that this debate essentially comes down to one about axioms and, is thus, a total waste of time.

[ABCoLD]

Actually if you could pass through a Reaper's kinetic barriers (like the Normandy does during the attack on Sovereign, or when it docks with the Leviathan) then you could deliver an effective nuclear payload. Reaper's aren't that materially effective, their armor isn't thick enough for this to stop that kinda damage output. The trouble is the barriers.

Which is why they made the Occuli into the Reapers version of Fighters, to stop this from happening.

[Skirata129]

andy69156915 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...
who said anything about guarding the relays? they're positioned there so as to be able to reinforce any beleaguered world quickly.

...you haven't studied much of military history or tactics, have you?

I thought you meant blockading mass relays with our fleets to keep the Reapers from travelling freely throughout the galaxy. No?

No. A moderate force would be established by the mass relay of each major world, with sentries stationed at other mass relays. When one world is attacked, they are reinforced by as many of the fighter swarms as needed. The mass relays make it possible for reinforcements to arrive anywhere within minutes, provided the ships needed are kept on alert and stationed nearby.

[dirty console peasant]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

Fine.  Then your point is that all of the fighters and frigates already have Thanix, and still are unable to pierce the kinetic barriers of the Dreadnought class Reapers with anything smaller than a Dreadnought class weapon...

The point remains that this debate essentially comes down to one about axioms and, is thus, a total waste of time.

No the point of that link was to prove that Thanix Cannons could be mounted on fighters, not to prove that they already are mounted on most fighters.  Wide use does not mean that every ship has a thanix cannon.  Also The alliance is not the only military force with fighters.

[Skirata129]

ABCoLD wrote...

Actually if you could pass through a Reaper's kinetic barriers (like the Normandy does during the attack on Sovereign, or when it docks with the Leviathan) then you could deliver an effective nuclear payload. Reaper's aren't that materially effective, their armor isn't thick enough for this to stop that kinda damage output. The trouble is the barriers.

Which is why they made the Occuli into the Reapers version of Fighters, to stop this from happening.

those were shown to be ineffective however, as with modern light armor such as the normandy had, the oculi couldn't even pierce the hull.

Also, none of the Alliance fleet were shown as having thanix cannons. for some reason this weapon was entirely ignored in ME3.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Skirata129 wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

so it's specifically stated that a Thanix cannon can be mounted on a fighter.

"...their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire
reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but
mountable on a fighter or frigate."

Point to note, miniaturized versions that are only as powerful as a cruiser. Not a dreadnought as you desire.

[satunnainen]

Skirata129 wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

so it's specifically stated that a Thanix cannon can be mounted on a fighter.

You can make a small enough laser, that you can carry in your hand. You can make a powerful enough laser to cut metal sheets. Does that mean that you can cut metal sheets with your handheld laser?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Skirata129 wrote...
as with modern light armor such as the normandy had, the oculi couldn't even pierce the hull.

I remember one oculus that pierced Normandy's upgraded arour and sat inside its shuttle bay for quite a while

[ABCoLD]

Skirata129 wrote...

No. A moderate force would be established by the mass relay of each major world, with sentries stationed at other mass relays. When one world is attacked, they are reinforced by as many of the fighter swarms as needed. The mass relays make it possible for reinforcements to arrive anywhere within minutes, provided the ships needed are kept on alert and stationed nearby.

The real question is why they didn't sacrifice play the Charon relay and cause it to go supernova.  Presumably a large enough amount of explosive/kinetic force would cause it to detonate immediately and wipe out the large number of Reapers in the Earth system.  

If nothing else, it would cause the Reapers to thin their attacks, if they were worried about the races doing this on each world.  (Which is why in most cycles they shut down the relays, probably, to stop this from happening.)

[Skirata129]

took it a while though. it also had a fairly large target.

[ABCoLD]

Skirata129 wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

Actually if you could pass through a Reaper's kinetic barriers (like the Normandy does during the attack on Sovereign, or when it docks with the Leviathan) then you could deliver an effective nuclear payload. Reaper's aren't that materially effective, their armor isn't thick enough for this to stop that kinda damage output. The trouble is the barriers.

Which is why they made the Occuli into the Reapers version of Fighters, to stop this from happening.

those were shown to be ineffective however, as with modern light armor such as the normandy had, the oculi couldn't even pierce the hull.

Also, none of the Alliance fleet were shown as having thanix cannons. for some reason this weapon was entirely ignored in ME3.

They're suicide attackers, we're talking about bringing firepower to bear that can seriously damage a Reaper, but on platforms small and agile enough to avoid a Reaper's primary weapons.  Those vessels would be susceptible to Occuli attack/boarding actions.

[dirty console peasant]

pirate1802 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

...you didn't even read my OP did you? come up with an informed argument.

The smaller ships can't get past the kinetic barriers of a Reaper Dreadnought, regardless of number, if you are suggested sending boarding parties onto a Dreadnought then Indoctrination is a problem.  There is probably a reason why they don't arm things smaller than crusiers with Thanix canons.  Remember the Normandy SR-2?  Had a huge Eezo core?  Yeah, and remember that dialogue about how the new thanix canons were murder on the power systems?  And the SR-2 is probably the most advanced cruiser in the galaxy... 

You've added nothing to this discusssion despite coming up with an interesting bit of trivia.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Mass_Effect_3_2

so it's specifically stated that a Thanix cannon can be mounted on a fighter.

"...their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire
reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but
mountable on a fighter or frigate."

Point to note, miniaturized versions that are only as powerful as a cruiser. Not a dreadnought as you desire.

did you see the other link to the codex about reaper vulnerabilities.  Just because one fighter with thanix =/= 1 dreadnaught does not mean that 20 fighters with thanix =/= 1 dreadnaught.  There are many more fighters than there are dreadnaughts.
here is the link I was talking about
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Vulnerabilities