I believe conventional victory would be possible but I'm just a halo fan where it just takes guts and guns to stop a powerful enemy at least halo 3's ending made me feel like I beat the flood seven feet under.
Whats the old saying you can fight like a krogan run like a leopard but you'll never be better than commander Shepard.
"Machines can be broken"-Conventional Victory Support Thread
Débuté par
Skirata129
, juil. 31 2012 05:04
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#1077
Posté 08 août 2012 - 03:33
silentassassin264
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All I can say is way to pick the dumbest line in the series to advocate the stupidest idea of the fanbase.
#1078
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:04
Scottus4
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I think it is safe to say every homeworld will be burned to ash without the Crucible. However, over hundreds to thousands of years, I think that we could cripple the Reapers with guerrilla tactics. You notice when you read about the Fall of Thessia, it mentions that the Asari give up their guerrilla tactics to defend their homeworld. If the Asari were willing to accept the fall of their homeworld, they could have preserved their forces. It would have been a huge blow to morale to abandon their people, but sacrifices have to be made to win.
The Reapers don't really have a way to replenish their numbers. They can build more troop carriers and more Occuli, but their ability to create Sovereign-class ships requires entire civilizations.
The relays are effectively bombs just waiting to be utilized. Reapers could be lured into areas and the relays detonated, cutting off areas of space for long periods of time and destroying invading Reaper forces. Perhaps the Reapers would wise up, and not travel through the relays, but that in itself would be a huge advantage.
Most players (generally speaking the new people Bioware wanted to attract to the franchise) want instant results though. That's why the Crucible instantly ends the war and not using the Crucible = you immediately go to a screen of civilization being destroyed. No "we're doomed!", just straight up civilization is already gone.
In all probability, we would probably lose, but I think that we could break the cycle. Their plan for future cycles fail if the relays are gone, the Citadel is gone, and the galaxy is littered with messages about the Reaper threat. You know, the Protheans originally intended to outlive their invasion, then rise right back up and repopulate the galaxy, having a huge edge when the Reapers took notice. No reason our kind couldn't do the same. Our stasis technology isn't as advanced, but Illos and Eden Prime have stasis pods we could study. Preserve some of the best and brightest from a number of species, burying them deep within a planet with those facilities powered by the thermal energy of a planet's core.
I completely and utterly reject the notion that without the Crucible, the cycle would continue. As the Catalyst said, the variables have changed.
The Reapers don't really have a way to replenish their numbers. They can build more troop carriers and more Occuli, but their ability to create Sovereign-class ships requires entire civilizations.
The relays are effectively bombs just waiting to be utilized. Reapers could be lured into areas and the relays detonated, cutting off areas of space for long periods of time and destroying invading Reaper forces. Perhaps the Reapers would wise up, and not travel through the relays, but that in itself would be a huge advantage.
Most players (generally speaking the new people Bioware wanted to attract to the franchise) want instant results though. That's why the Crucible instantly ends the war and not using the Crucible = you immediately go to a screen of civilization being destroyed. No "we're doomed!", just straight up civilization is already gone.
In all probability, we would probably lose, but I think that we could break the cycle. Their plan for future cycles fail if the relays are gone, the Citadel is gone, and the galaxy is littered with messages about the Reaper threat. You know, the Protheans originally intended to outlive their invasion, then rise right back up and repopulate the galaxy, having a huge edge when the Reapers took notice. No reason our kind couldn't do the same. Our stasis technology isn't as advanced, but Illos and Eden Prime have stasis pods we could study. Preserve some of the best and brightest from a number of species, burying them deep within a planet with those facilities powered by the thermal energy of a planet's core.
I completely and utterly reject the notion that without the Crucible, the cycle would continue. As the Catalyst said, the variables have changed.
Modifié par Scottus4, 08 août 2012 - 04:20 .
#1079
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:22
Ticonderoga117
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silentassassin264 wrote...
All I can say is way to pick the dumbest line in the series to advocate the stupidest idea of the fanbase.
I think that's taken by: "This isn't about strategy or tactics, this is about survival."
Gee thanks Shep, those things are how we are going to survive you nitwit.
Defense committee, please tell me you have a plan.
*Sees the committee eating paste in the corner*
Well, crap.
#1080
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:25
TJBartlemus
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If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse? You know how BioWare said the next cycle won? By using the Crucible. Conventional victory is impossible. BioWare even went out to say so multiple times.
#1081
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:28
Ticonderoga117
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TJBartlemus wrote...
If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse? You know how BioWare said the next cycle won? By using the Crucible. Conventional victory is impossible. BioWare even went out to say so multiple times.
And there's your problem.
We are given points in ME1 and ME2 that we CAN KILL Reapers, it's only a matter of scale.
Then, in ME3, every leader is given an idiot ball and makes moronic decisions, all so that we are FORCED to take the stupid Crucible/Catalyst route.
Pass.
#1082
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:35
TJBartlemus
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Ticonderoga117 wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse? You know how BioWare said the next cycle won? By using the Crucible. Conventional victory is impossible. BioWare even went out to say so multiple times.
And there's your problem.
We are given points in ME1 and ME2 that we CAN KILL Reapers, it's only a matter of scale.
Then, in ME3, every leader is given an idiot ball and makes moronic decisions, all so that we are FORCED to take the stupid Crucible/Catalyst route.
Pass.
I am not saying I wouldn't of prefered conventional victory. I am just saying it's not possible. It's unfortunate. So much wasted potential.
Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 août 2012 - 04:36 .
#1083
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:41
OMTING52601
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Nah, I think BW went out of their way to prove that Shep, backed by his kick *** crew, could do anything. Sovereign, the Collectors, quelling the Geth/Quarian conflict, disarming a nuke on Tuchanka, taking out a Reaper TWICE on foot, annihilating Cerberus, getting the Turians and Krogan to work together... It's like Garrus says, if Shep can broker a win against the Reapers, the galaxy will canonize him/her. BW went out of their way to create Space Awesome Shepard, then at the last minute decided 'Nah, we gotta go another way. Space Jesus Shepard, FTW, resurrection, ascension, immortality at the right hand of god!' 
I can understand the choice. I mean part of it was probably due to BW wanting ME 3 to be the end of Shep's line. If Shep is dead, then no matter how much folks ask/demand more Shep, s/he is dead, for good. Part of it, according to FH, had to do with the folks in charge wanting some kind of deep-thought end instead of a blow-em-sky-high-hero-celebrates-the-win finish. That's a personal choice by the people in charge.
Neither of the above have anything to do with there not actually being a mechanic for a conventional victory. Since we're playing the what if game, what if every part of game three where Hackett said 'we can't win this conventionally' instead he said 'we're going to wipe these bastards off the galaxy map'?
If that were the case, I guarantee there'd be a metric **** ton less threads in this board asking 'how the heck did Shep win conventionally - it was never a possibility'. FWIW, YMMV, IMO.
I can understand the choice. I mean part of it was probably due to BW wanting ME 3 to be the end of Shep's line. If Shep is dead, then no matter how much folks ask/demand more Shep, s/he is dead, for good. Part of it, according to FH, had to do with the folks in charge wanting some kind of deep-thought end instead of a blow-em-sky-high-hero-celebrates-the-win finish. That's a personal choice by the people in charge.
Neither of the above have anything to do with there not actually being a mechanic for a conventional victory. Since we're playing the what if game, what if every part of game three where Hackett said 'we can't win this conventionally' instead he said 'we're going to wipe these bastards off the galaxy map'?
If that were the case, I guarantee there'd be a metric **** ton less threads in this board asking 'how the heck did Shep win conventionally - it was never a possibility'. FWIW, YMMV, IMO.
#1084
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:42
Ticonderoga117
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TJBartlemus wrote...
I am not saying I wouldn't of prefered conventional victory. I am just saying it's not possible. It's unfortunate. So much wasted potential.
Very much so. Such a shame.
#1085
Posté 08 août 2012 - 04:45
Scottus4
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If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse?
We don't know what happened. We would need further "clarification" and "closure" to understand what happened in the reject ending. lol
#1086
Posté 08 août 2012 - 06:11
Ticonderoga117
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Scottus4 wrote...
If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse?
We don't know what happened. We would need further "clarification" and "closure" to understand what happened in the reject ending. lol
Or it might have something to do with Admiral "Let's fly right at them willy nilly" Hackett still being in charge.
#1087
Posté 08 août 2012 - 06:35
The Spamming Troll
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TJBartlemus wrote...
If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse? You know how BioWare said the next cycle won? By using the Crucible. Conventional victory is impossible. BioWare even went out to say so multiple times.
U r biowares target audience.
#1088
Posté 08 août 2012 - 07:08
sethdil
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The Spamming Troll wrote...
TJBartlemus wrote...
If conventional victory was possible then why did Shepard's cycle fail in Refuse? You know how BioWare said the next cycle won? By using the Crucible. Conventional victory is impossible. BioWare even went out to say so multiple times.
U r biowares target audience.
They failed in refuse cause they did not have the power of the Avengers to help kick butt. That however is just my opinion.
#1089
Posté 09 août 2012 - 04:03
Skirata129
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Iron man specifically. the rest of the avengers suck.
#1090
Posté 09 août 2012 - 01:10
The Spamming Troll
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Skirata129 wrote...
Iron man specifically. the rest of the avengers suck.
well except that the hulk was by far the MVP of the movie.
#1091
Posté 12 août 2012 - 01:09
Skirata129
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eh, only because he was written in that way. Seriously, there were a thousand jokes in that film and the punchline to every one was the hulk.
#1092
Posté 12 août 2012 - 01:42
TOBY FLENDERSON
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Your plan would work, but does the galaxy have the resources?
Also hacking the citadel to shoot reapers in proximity to the galactic core would be cool and supported by the lore. Protheans stopped it from working by remote control, so why can't we assume direct control?
Also hacking the citadel to shoot reapers in proximity to the galactic core would be cool and supported by the lore. Protheans stopped it from working by remote control, so why can't we assume direct control?
#1093
Posté 12 août 2012 - 01:46
Conniving_Eagle
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Conventional victory being an impossibility was only established in ME3, and very poorly at that.
#1094
Posté 12 août 2012 - 01:51
MattFini
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Because a conventional victory would've been exciting / rewarding, and not pretentious in the least.
Apparently the ending had to be pretentious, though.
Apparently the ending had to be pretentious, though.
#1095
Posté 17 août 2012 - 01:47
Skirata129
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I think pretentious endings are looked upon as being more "artistic" than going with the tried and true good guys win scenario. I'm just really happy mat and casey weren't in charge of the Allied forces during WWII.
#1096
Posté 17 août 2012 - 02:25
Lennyoh
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MattFini wrote...
Because a conventional victory would've been exciting / rewarding, and not pretentious in the least.
Apparently the ending had to be pretentious, though.
This
#1097
Posté 27 août 2012 - 04:53
Skirata129
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agreed.Lennyoh wrote...
MattFini wrote...
Because a conventional victory would've been exciting / rewarding, and not pretentious in the least.
Apparently the ending had to be pretentious, though.
This
#1098
Posté 27 août 2012 - 05:12
Justin2k
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Meh it depends on what you are talking about, Bioware moved the goalposts with the Reaper army so many times.
Originally they were an army of sentinel starships.
Then they were sentinel starships built from the remains of harvested races and taking on their image.
Then they were all squid things.
Then they had ground troops.
Then they organised concentration camps where they let prisoners go if they grassed up other prisoners.
You cannot look at ways to defeat an enemy when that enemy changes dependant on whom is writing the content.
Originally they were an army of sentinel starships.
Then they were sentinel starships built from the remains of harvested races and taking on their image.
Then they were all squid things.
Then they had ground troops.
Then they organised concentration camps where they let prisoners go if they grassed up other prisoners.
You cannot look at ways to defeat an enemy when that enemy changes dependant on whom is writing the content.
#1099
Posté 13 septembre 2012 - 07:16
Skirata129
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yeah, in a fight between established canon and Flip Flops of God, God wins... just sucks though, because that's a horrible reason for a valid tactic to be ineffective.
