1098 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

daecath wrote...

Seriously, this is in the bag.

From the codex:
Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

So yes, you could install a Thanix cannon into a fighter. Thus, this tactic could work.

It couldn't.

Realistically it would take years to overhaul an entire fleet of fighters and frigates. And the Reapers aren't going to side idly by while civilizations of the galaxy start pulling ships into drydock. They are going to demolish those shipyards and those now vulnerable ships.

Also, directly from the codex:
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

Game set match. Bioware states directly that, with the right intel, weapons, and strategy, you can defeat the Reapers.

The codex is talking about battles, not the entire war. Both Hackett and Anderson flat out tell you that the Reapers can't be defeated conventionally.

The galaxy is headed for total economic collapse by the year's end. They have less than a year to win or they're finished. The only option available was a superweapon, particularly when the Reapers possess a significant technological advantage, and likely a numerical advantage as well. The Reapers certainly field more dreadnoughts, at the very least.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:41 .

[dreman9999]

ABCoLD wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

haha, I mean drones. have skilled pilots sitting back somewhere and operating through simulators. All they have to dodge a few oculi, shoot, then whoever is left will bug out. a loss of a drone would be relatively minor.

That's a really horrible idea.  Think of EDI's job, then think of a ship without an EDI to do that job, make it cheap and simple for mass production, and then make it designed to be flown by remote control.  Then send it against  a Reaper.

Then imagine the reapers hacking those remote control ships....

[Skirata129]

ABCoLD wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

haha, I mean drones. have skilled pilots sitting back somewhere and operating through simulators. All they have to dodge a few oculi, shoot, then whoever is left will bug out. a loss of a drone would be relatively minor.

That's a really horrible idea.  Think of EDI's job, then think of a ship without an EDI to do that job, make it cheap and simple for mass production, and then make it designed to be flown by remote control.  Then send it against  a Reaper.

It's the equivalent of drones today, some of which are being developed for air spueriority. this wuld be about everwhelming the Reapers defenses through firepower, speed and numbers at the cost of defense.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
Then imagine the reapers hacking those remote control ships....

The Geth. Save them, they help build drones that can't be hacked.

[ABCoLD]

krasnoarmeets wrote...
Hate to rain on your parade, but the way technology is currently going fighter craft such as the ones in ME3 would be far more likely to be remotely controlled from the larger ships rather than actually manned. I was very surprised that Bioware decided to make the fighters manned to be honest. Drones are used for a lot of things these days as good pilots are the hardest thing to replace.

The reason is you're talking about literally astronomical distances.  Without QEC technology, you're relying on conventional communication tactics, which means at any realistic engagement range you'd have significant response lag in a remotely controlled system.  Which is why most SciFi that don't have hand-held FTL communication don't have drone fighters.

[ABCoLD]

Skirata129 wrote...

It's the equivalent of drones today, some of which are being developed for air spueriority. this wuld be about everwhelming the Reapers defenses through firepower, speed and numbers at the cost of defense.

It would be like some guys in a cave in a mountain building drones to fly against the CIA.  It wouldn't take the CIA long to figure out how to hijack them is what I'm saying.  The Reapers would pwn remote controlled rigs.

[Skirata129]

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

[krasnoarmeets]

Han Shot First wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

And I'm telling you you can't touch them.

At all.

That's the point.

There is nothing you can do.

Only the combined force of four Dreadnoughts will really do anything and that's difficult to do.

Bioware has stated that it is impossible without using the Crucible.

Accept this and move on.

That's really quite the defeatist attitude you there. I'm glad I'm not in the Mass Effect universe with you as Shepard. The reason why people like Shepard can achieve the impossible is because of their mindset that anything is possible. It makes a huge difference going into a battle thinking that you're going to lose.

Unless Shepard can bring down Reaper shields with fireballs from his eyes and puncture their hulls with lightning bolts from his arse, I don't see him contributing in any way towards a conventional victory.

Wow, that's original. Taken directly from Braveheart. You greatly underestimate the significance of a strong leader. Morale is a critical factor in wartime.

[ABCoLD]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Then imagine the reapers hacking those remote control ships....

The Geth. Save them, they help build drones that can't be hacked.

My Engineer can hack a Geth mobile platform being directly controlled by a Geth VI with his OMNITOOL.  Imagine what a Reaper could do.

[ABCoLD]

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

Except that it's hideously expensive and huge... and also limited in the speed of data transmission.

[krasnoarmeets]

 

ABCoLD wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...
Hate to rain on your parade, but the way technology is currently going fighter craft such as the ones in ME3 would be far more likely to be remotely controlled from the larger ships rather than actually manned. I was very surprised that Bioware decided to make the fighters manned to be honest. Drones are used for a lot of things these days as good pilots are the hardest thing to replace.

The reason is you're talking about literally astronomical distances.  Without QEC technology, you're relying on conventional communication tactics, which means at any realistic engagement range you'd have significant response lag in a remotely controlled system.  Which is why most SciFi that don't have hand-held FTL communication don't have drone fighters.

 

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Then imagine the reapers hacking those remote control ships....

The Geth. Save them, they help build drones that can't be hacked.

Or may be just send the geth.  But a knew problem comes up. Production and resources. The reaper can produce oculus  faster than we can ships or drones. And they an do it more at once. Added, we have a limit on resources while they don't and the reaper are cutting our resources down. This plan would just turn the war in a battle of endurace...The reaper have no end to that. We would lose.

Modifié par dreman9999, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[Han Shot First]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

And I'm telling you you can't touch them.

At all.

That's the point.

There is nothing you can do.

Only the combined force of four Dreadnoughts will really do anything and that's difficult to do.

Bioware has stated that it is impossible without using the Crucible.

Accept this and move on.

That's really quite the defeatist attitude you there. I'm glad I'm not in the Mass Effect universe with you as Shepard. The reason why people like Shepard can achieve the impossible is because of their mindset that anything is possible. It makes a huge difference going into a battle thinking that you're going to lose.

Unless Shepard can bring down Reaper shields with fireballs from his eyes and puncture their hulls with lightning bolts from his arse, I don't see him contributing in any way towards a conventional victory.

Wow, that's original. Taken directly from Braveheart. You greatly underestimate the significance of a strong leader. Morale is a critical factor in wartime.

Sorry, but no.

I'd like to see someone actually explain how Shepard could pull off a conventional victory. He is a man, not a superweapon that can bring down Reaper shields and pierce their hulls.

[Skirata129]

Not speed, just the amount of data it can handle at any given moment. and the size is actually a nonissue, as it could literally just replace the cockpit of the fighters, as a pilot wouldn't be occupying it.

[dreman9999]

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

The reapers can cut into qec.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
Or may be just send the geth.  But a knew problem comes up. Production and recourse. The reaper can produce oculus  faster than we can ships or drones. And they an do it more at once. Added, we have a limit on resources whild they don't and the reaper are cutting our recourse down. This plan would just turn the war in a battle of endurace...The reaper have no end to that. We would lose.

How do they have unlimited resources? They have no infrastructure, and they don't seem keen on keeping any. They probably can't replace Occuli at all, or if they can, very slowly.

[daecath]

dreman9999 wrote...

daecath wrote...

Seriously, this is in the bag.

From the codex:
Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

So yes, you could install a Thanix cannon into a fighter. Thus, this tactic could work.

Also, directly from the codex:
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.

Game set match. Bioware states directly that, with the right intel, weapons, and strategy, you can defeat the Reapers.

counter point...
http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities 

The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them -- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters. 

So we have to get close to the ships, that can one shot ours, to use them....And you think we can win?

"Difficulty =/= Impossibility"

You're talking about a large dreadnaught vs. small fighters. Fighters are more maneuverable than a dreadnaught.

"Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to
do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat
situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought [or a group of fighters] to emerge
from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear
faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however,
against Reapers flying in proper formation.
[for a dreadnaught, but not necessarily for a fighter]"

We see fighters getting very close to reaper ships in the cutscenes. And again, directly from BioWare "theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated."

Reapers rely on their overwhelming size and strength. That also leaves them slow and less maneuverable. Take advantage of that fact. We've seen it over and over throughout history. An enemy with superior technology and force defeated by better tactics.

[Skirata129]

dreman9999 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

The reapers can cut into qec.

...that's impossible. as in physically impossible. it relies on two identical particals that react in unison. in order to "cut" into it, the Reapers would have to create exact copies of the particles at the heart of the QE machines, and each set would most likely be unique.

Modifié par Skirata129, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:51 .

[ABCoLD]

Skirata129 wrote...

Not speed, just the amount of data it can handle at any given moment. and the size is actually a nonissue, as it could literally just replace the cockpit of the fighters, as a pilot wouldn't be occupying it.

You're ignoring expense.  Didn't they say the QEC cost as much as a frigate?

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Or may be just send the geth.  But a knew problem comes up. Production and recourse. The reaper can produce oculus  faster than we can ships or drones. And they an do it more at once. Added, we have a limit on resources whild they don't and the reaper are cutting our recourse down. This plan would just turn the war in a battle of endurace...The reaper have no end to that. We would lose.

How do they have unlimited resources? They have no infrastructure, and they don't seem keen on keeping any. They probably can't replace Occuli at all, or if they can, very slowly.

Did you play the game? It clear by playing it they can make endless force. Add the reapers themselve are the factories making the forces and the oculus....
http://masseffect.wi...Reaper_Variants 
PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers. 

They don't need to build anything because they are the things they need to make things.

[Han Shot First]

One thing conventional victory advocates always overlook is that in ME3 there is a confidential Volus report on the state of the galactic economy, that states that it is headed for total collapse by the year's end. The Reaper War is simply unsustainable. They have to win quick, of they've got no chance at winning at all.

The problem this presents is that the civilizations of the galaxy are underdogs, by a large margin. The method used by outclassed underdogs in a conflict, is attempting to wear down a superior enemy with guerrilla tactics. They try to avoid getting caught in set piece battles where they could be annihilated, and try to wear down their enemy in a long war of attrition. Attrition warfare howver, is time consuming. And time is not a luxury the civilizations of the galaxy have. They are unable to fight a long war.

[daecath]

dreman9999 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

The reapers can cut into qec.

Where did you find that? Because the way quantum entanglement works, two particles physically interact, and then become separated. So in order to "hack" into qec, you have to physically have access to one of the two particles. Which could cause that particle to become dis-entangled from it's current mate to become entangled with the new one, so in those cases, all you've done is disabled communication, not hacked into it.

http://en.wikipedia....um_entanglement

[Skirata129]

ABCoLD wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

Not speed, just the amount of data it can handle at any given moment. and the size is actually a nonissue, as it could literally just replace the cockpit of the fighters, as a pilot wouldn't be occupying it.

You're ignoring expense.  Didn't they say the QEC cost as much as a frigate?

Expense is a factor that can be ignored in this instance as in a war for survival, people will work essentially for free, so long as they're provided with neccesities.

[dreman9999]

Skirata129 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

yeah, quantum entanglement seems quite logical. would make it virtually impossible to hack them too.

The reapers can cut into qec.

...that's impossible. as in physically impossible. it relies on two identical particals that react in unison. in order to "cut" into it, the Reapers would have to create exact copies of the particles at the heart of the QE machines, and each set would most likely be unique.

They did it. They did that to cerberus with sactuary. Remeber, they master QEC well before we even started to understand it.

[krasnoarmeets]

ABCoLD wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Then imagine the reapers hacking those remote control ships....

The Geth. Save them, they help build drones that can't be hacked.

My Engineer can hack a Geth mobile platform being directly controlled by a Geth VI with his OMNITOOL.  Imagine what a Reaper could do.

Except that the Geth you save have modified reaper code, which means that they'd have a good deal of insight into stopping them from hacking them. Also, the reapers didn't hack the Geth, they accepted when the Geth asked for help and updated the programming of a few Geth with the Geth's consent. Additionally they didn't hack the Geth collective on the whole i.e. every Geth consciousness, they were using a command signal to essentially direct them. Some reaper code was added with the Geth's consent on a number of their servers and a command signal was sent from a reaper directly on Rannoch. The Geth were smart enough to overcome reaper code of the rewrite virus and repurpose it for their own needs. Just imagine what Geth modified with a bit of reaper code would be capable of.