495 réponses à ce sujet

[dirty console peasant]

 At the end of ME1 I felt victorious
Same with ME2
ME3 left me feeling like I had lost even post EC
I do not play a game to lose I play it to win.

[Meltemph]

The reason you feel like that is because you have come to the realization that post ME3, the ME universe is effectivly broke, without them completely ignoring 3 of the 4 endings.

Which means they killed ME post ME3 endings, without pulling a rabit out of their hat.

Modifié par Meltemph, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:31 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Yes.

[DocGriffin]

What about the ending felt unvictorious to you? Were you looking for a Star Wars medal ceremony a la Shep's survival and reunion? Because you can feel victorious without that. I mean, unless you chose Refusal, you get to see the Reapers either destroyed, under your control, or helping to rebuild the galaxy. I'd feel pretty victorious with any of those, given the goal of the series was stopping them.

[KiwiQuiche]

Wut, bro? I felt totally great with that awesome randomass end we got.

[Zaire Taylor]

I think Destroy gives that feeling. I like to think that the Catalyst actually is the Citadel, and the starbrat is the Reapers invading my mind trying to indoctrinate me. The Crucible allows me to destroy the Reapers, but the Reapers will grant me the power to control them or merge synthetics and organics and thus spare them. Or if I choose nothing they like it but realize future cycles will soon end them. When I chose destroy, I'm rejecting their indoctrination and winning the war. Then I live. I feel good.

And honestly, it makes sense that destroying them would also destroy synthetics.  I don't like that, but in my game the geth are dead so it's not a huge issue.  My only wish is for the Crucible to get a more scientific explanation.

Modifié par Zaire Taylor, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:44 .

[dirty console peasant]

DocGriffin wrote...

What about the ending felt unvictorious to you? Were you looking for a Star Wars medal ceremony a la Shep's survival and reunion? Because you can feel victorious without that. I mean, unless you chose Refusal, you get to see the Reapers either destroyed, under your control, or helping to rebuild the galaxy. I'd feel pretty victorious with any of those, given the goal of the series was stopping them.

Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
Control- too many variables too much possibility for Shep to go crazy and restart the cycle
Destroy- just look at my sig and take a guess
All of the choices were choosing how you lose not choosing how you win.  I just wanted a victory, maybe with some losses, but not entire sentient races, and then a clip of Shepard with his/her LI a la TDKR.  I really do not think that is too much to ask.

[AlanC9]

Sucks to be you, I guess. I felt the way DocGriffin did, myself. They're all wins.

[DocGriffin]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
Control- too many variables too much possibility for Shep to go crazy and restart the cycle
Destroy- just look at my sig and take a guess
All of the choices were choosing how you lose not choosing how you win.  I just wanted a victory, maybe with some losses, but not entire sentient races, and then a clip of Shepard with his/her LI a la TDKR.  I really do not think that is too much to ask.

Oh I see, you were looking for an ending without any bittersweet elements to it. Honestly, I went into the game knowing there wouldn't be a 'perfect' ending. It's practically drilled into your head that 'hey, we're not coming out of this unscathed,' so I think if you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to enjoy the endings.


And as far as the 'the choices were choosing how you lose' comment, I disagree, it's more which side of bitter would you like with your sweet. And honestly, that bitter can change from person to person. For example, I don't have any 'space magic' or moral issues with Synthesis, the bitter for me there is Shepard dying. I suppose it's a pick your poison scenario, but certainly not a choice of loss altogether. All the endings felt like a win scenario for me.

Modifié par DocGriffin, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[dirty console peasant]

DocGriffin wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
Control- too many variables too much possibility for Shep to go crazy and restart the cycle
Destroy- just look at my sig and take a guess
All of the choices were choosing how you lose not choosing how you win.  I just wanted a victory, maybe with some losses, but not entire sentient races, and then a clip of Shepard with his/her LI a la TDKR.  I really do not think that is too much to ask.

Oh I see, you were looking for an ending without any bittersweet elements to it. Honestly, I went into the game knowing there wouldn't be a 'perfect' ending. It's practically drilled into your head that 'hey, we're not coming out of this unscathed,' so I think if you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to enjoy the endings.


And as far as the 'the choices were choosing how you lose' comment, I disagree, it's more which side of bitter would you like with your sweet. And honestly, that bitter can change from person to person. For example, I don't have any 'space magic' or moral issues with Synthesis, the bitter for me there is Shepard dying. I suppose it's a pick your poison scenario, but certainly not a choice of loss altogether. All the endings felt like a win scenario for me.

There are quite a few unavoidable losses (Thane, Mordin, Legion)  Yes I include Mordin because I can never kill Wrex, and because the Krogan deserve a cure.  I am saying that I want a VICTORY WITH LOSSES and you are saying I want an ending with no bitter to the sweet.  IMO there are no victory possibilities.

[Cobalt2113]

DocGriffin wrote...

What about the ending felt unvictorious to you? Were you looking for a Star Wars medal ceremony a la Shep's survival and reunion? Because you can feel victorious without that. I mean, unless you chose Refusal, you get to see the Reapers either destroyed, under your control, or helping to rebuild the galaxy. I'd feel pretty victorious with any of those, given the goal of the series was stopping them.

Agreed, I don't see how those aren't victories. Unless your only goal was to have shepard survive.

[iamweaver]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

<snip>
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
<snip>

I'm confused.  How does synthesis kill all culture?

Modifié par iamweaver, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[Mcfly616]

I felt like I saved the galaxy from the Reapers and gave it a new beginning......I just call it "Victory" though

[sUiCiDeKiNgS13]

Ending pre-EC felt empty.
Ending post-EC felt better, but was still pretty empty (just like the romance storyline w/ Jack)

[Sleepdribble]

If you can't squeeze one tiny ounce of victorious joy from any EC ending, then I'd say the fault lies with you, my young foot-stomping, lip-pouting friend. Instead of scrapping the bottom of the whine-barrel in order to look like one of the cool kids, how 'bout you give the game one more go with an open mind. Or, if you're not that way inclined, (and I admit this is a wildly radical idea) give some other game the benefit of your joy-sucking wisdom. Or just play ME 1 and 2 again. I'm not really fussed about what you do in your spare time.

OK. I admit. That was mean.

[SuperVulcan]

The feeling of victory comes from within. Of course, Bioware could show what happens to Shepard at the end of High-EMS destroy.

[MystEU]

Pre-EC, to me it just felt like "meh what the hell?"
Post-EC, I at least feel like I won the war in some ways.

Granted, the future of the ME universe would be strange to imagine, but I'm not getting paid to write it, so I don't really care!

[dirty console peasant]

iamweaver wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

<snip>
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
<snip>

I'm confused.  How does synthesis kill all culture?

like this
www.youtube.com/watch
skip to about 1:40 for the good part

[Bill Casey]

You have to become a complete monster in all endings...
Even inaction is monstrous...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:04 .

[dirty console peasant]

thematic wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

There are quite a few unavoidable losses (Thane, Mordin, Legion)  Yes I include Mordin because I can never kill Wrex, and because the Krogan deserve a cure.  I am saying that I want a VICTORY WITH LOSSES and you are saying I want an ending with no bitter to the sweet.  IMO there are no victory possibilities.

???

You want a victory with losses.

You have one unavoidable loss: Thane (the others are avoidable, no matter how much you don't want to do what's necessary to avoid them)

You have your victory. You defeat the Reapers.

What's the problem here?

Legion is also unavoidable, and if you save Mordin and Wrex survived Virmire then Wrex dies.
It just does not feel like victory,  also the starbrat was not the best choice to provide the choices Harbinger would have been better.

[Jassu1979]

DocGriffin wrote...
What about the ending felt unvictorious to you?

Pretty much everything. Even the musical cues speak of tragedy and loss rather than victory. Sad piano music: yep, that's truly a signifier of victory! Not.

Synthesis dissolves our protagonist into green space magic, killing her. She'll never see her loved ones again, never reunite with the person who suffered all the stages of grief two years previously, and could only tentatively allow him/herself to open up to love her again.

Control kills our protagonist and replaces her with an AI. That being might share her memories and moral stances, but it is not the same entity - our hero "loses everything", as the game puts it.

And even Destroy does little to satisfy: we can exterminate our enemies, but we do so at a terrible price, and the best our hero can hope for afterwards is an easter egg that shows her gasping in the rubble.


There are those who'd call a genuine victory "unrealistic" - but I do wonder whether these are the same people who'd defend green space magic turning every living thing in the galaxy (even plant life) into techno-organic hybrids.
And for what it's worth, the problem isn't even that there's a cost to achieving victory: it's that the costs are SO high in each case that it feels like a Pyrrhic victory at best, leaving a bitter aftertaste in the mouth and effectively killing all desire to celebrate and cheer.

[Ironhandjustice]

I agree with OP

Destroy should have the option of "save everyone, scrap reapers" if you have enougth EMS.

Why not? I am speaking about a ridiculous amount, for example 7000.

Is nonsensical if you have a huge EMS fleet plenty of badasses, that you cannot "fix" the targeting system of the crucible. Consider that the crucible has crew. Scientists, of course.

I mean:

"****,****,****, we are targeting geth and Edi, Add a 'facking' if to the code!!!!"

[iamweaver]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

iamweaver wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

<snip>
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
<snip>

I'm confused.  How does synthesis kill all culture?

like this
www.youtube.com/watch
skip to about 1:40 for the good part

Are you saying that synthesis means that we will no longer have problems to overcome?  Why is that?  Synthesis allows, somehow, organics to be able to incorporate nanomachines into their DNA.  This does not eliminate all problems. This simply means that organics can continue to advance past their current physical limitations, matching the growth of synthetics.