495 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

Bah, of course it's easy to pick one of the stupid choices. Well, maybe not Synthesis. But the thing is, it doesn't really feel like anything. Not sad cos EDI & the Geth are gone. Not happy. Not like a victory. How is that "bittersweet"?

BioWare CAN write movingly, when they can be bothered to.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 01 août 2012 - 12:07 .

[giftfish]

Apparently.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Asking for a game to give you a satisfying conclusion based on the effort you put into raising your EMS and choices you made along the way is not an unrealistic expectation.

Ironically you are asking for an unrealistic expectation because everyone has their own tastes and a satisfying conclusion is in the eye of the beholder based on how its a video game series designed for millions of people.

It's not unrealistic to assume that not eveyone will be happy with a game when everyone of it's multiple endings is forced bittersweet. There should have been a range, complete with a Reapers win scenario, a dark nihilistic ending like Walters wanted, a bittersweet one for the realists and a happy one for the escapists who put effort into doing every sidequest and fetchquest.

The only irony here is that you're claiming they can't please everyone in a game deisgned for milllions of people, and yet defend an ending that has such limited scope and appeal. I'm saying they should have broadened the appeal and options to consider satisfying a larger protion of the fanbase.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 01 août 2012 - 12:55 .

[Leon Felps]

If you consider victory as the success of a main objective, I cannot argue. I don't share that sentiment because not losing evokes a different feeling to me. I support destroy for a number of reasons but even it tastes like hot garbage. Best I figure is that BW put an emphasis on sacrifice as a major ME3 theme but didn't know any other way to convey the concept except through death. And boy did they ever like them some death, but I'll stick to the endings. Every ending had some forced reason as to why Shepard must die to execute the plan. Like in destroy, if you see me walking to blow up the red beam and don't send in M.Shields 2.0 to stop me you clearly are accepting my choice. Can't let me set an explosive or have starkid self terminate after I beam back to Earth? What reason must all other synthetic life die to take out the Reapers?

Because the situations are so silly to start with that unnecessary conditions need to be placed on the outcomes to make the player even remotely question what choices to make. Saying people are too soft and that BW put big boy pants on by killing main characters is retarded. I'm sure the general consensus is an audience views death as a negative, that's why main characters aren't killed very often. Can the story experience be enhanced and more profound by those deaths, damn right it can. But you better do it right or you get something that ranges from wtf to disturbing. And anything falling in that emotional spectrum is magnified by the empty feelings associated with ME3's conclusions after 3 games worth of interest.

I'd like to see things as those that do like the endings, but I don't. You guys aren't wrong and I'm not right. But this is how I see it atm.

[Blueprotoss]

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

iakus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Asking for a game to give you a satisfying conclusion based on the effort you put into raising your EMS and choices you made along the way is not an unrealistic expectation.

Ironically you are asking for an unrealistic expectation because everyone has their own tastes and a satisfying conclusion is in the eye of the beholder based on how its a video game series designed for millions of people.

Isn't that what multiple endings are for?
 

Sadly some people will complain no matter what amount of endings that Develper creates unless you can have 100% personalized endings.

I'll bet you'd have fewer people complaining if there was a wider range of ending though.

Or it would cause more people to complain since ME3 had at least 16 endings based around EMS ratings pre-EC.

[-Skorpious-]

Remove the starchild and I'll forgive most, not all, misgivings I have with ME3 and can end the trilogy feeling victorious. 

I am not upset that Shepard has to die, but rather the pointless, out of place, utterly nonsensical plot-device known as the Catalyst. I don't have much of an issue with the Crucible being a super-weapon (I kinda expected it since Bioware decided to go all A-Team with ME2's plot and ignore everything ME established about the reapers), but the Cataylyst is simply far too absurd in its current form to be taken both seriously or logically.

Seriously though - what purpose does the Catalyst serve by appearing as the child Shepard saw on Earth? The only explanation I can think of is that Bioware thought it would astound or profound the audience. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 01 août 2012 - 01:53 .

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's not unrealistic to assume that not eveyone will be happy with a game when everyone of it's multiple endings is forced bittersweet. There should have been a range, complete with a Reapers win scenario, a dark nihilistic ending like Walters wanted, a bittersweet one for the realists and a happy one for the escapists who put effort into doing every sidequest and fetchquest.

Yet you're asking for unrealistic possibilities and nothing will only get positive feedback especially when the Internet is involved.

Greylycantrope wrote... 

The only irony here is that you're claiming they can't please everyone in a game deisgned for milllions of people, and yet defend an ending that has such limited scope and appeal. I'm saying they should have broadened the appeal and options to consider satisfying a larger protion of the fanbase.

You can't design, write, draw, or film something without someone hating something based on everyone's differing likes and dislikes.  A new ending won't happen just like when Bioware announced that alongside the EC.   Ironically most of the ME fanbase either liked or were okay with the ME3 endings while the haters were the minority just like most games.

[spirosz]

Blueprotoss wrote...
 Ironically most of the ME fanbase either liked or were okay with the ME3 endings while the haters were the minority just like most games.

Proof? 

[Ozida]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Ironically most of the ME fanbase either liked or were okay with the ME3 endings while the haters were the minority just like most games.

Haha. Just haha. Do your research properly, please. At this point it is fairly half and half.

[Blueprotoss]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Bah, of course it's easy to pick one of the stupid choices. Well, maybe not Synthesis. But the thing is, it doesn't really feel like anything. Not sad cos EDI & the Geth are gone. Not happy. Not like a victory. How is that "bittersweet"?

BioWare CAN write movingly, when they can be bothered to.

I doubt you know what bittersweet means based on how the ME series follows the Hero's Tale and the Greek Tragedy.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's not unrealistic to assume that not eveyone will be happy with a game when everyone of it's multiple endings is forced bittersweet. There should have been a range, complete with a Reapers win scenario, a dark nihilistic ending like Walters wanted, a bittersweet one for the realists and a happy one for the escapists who put effort into doing every sidequest and fetchquest.

Yet you're asking for unrealistic possibilities and nothing will only get positive feedback especially when the Internet is involved.

Yet your scope is limited. You really see no way of implimenting these ideas? I can think of at least 3 ways they could have done exactly what I'm suggesting using the game mechnics they have already created and employed in ME2 and ME3. Want me to share?

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote... 

The only irony here is that you're claiming they can't please everyone in a game deisgned for milllions of people, and yet defend an ending that has such limited scope and appeal. I'm saying they should have broadened the appeal and options to consider satisfying a larger protion of the fanbase.

You can't design, write, draw, or film something without someone hating something based on everyone's differing likes and dislikes.  A new ending won't happen just like when Bioware announced that alongside the EC.   Ironically most of the ME fanbase either liked or were okay with the ME3 endings while the haters were the minority just like most games.

I'd like to see the statistics supporting this claim. I'm assuming the reason everyone loved the endings was why we got the EC to begin with? BTW I never said there wouldn't be any critisims just less then there currently is.

[Blueprotoss]

spirosz wrote...

Proof? 

It won't be shown on BSN based on all of the biased negativity that comes with every Bioware game.

Ozida wrote...

Haha. Just haha. Do your research properly, please. At this point it is fairly half and half.

Pot calling the kettle black because Retake ME3 is all the proof that I need to counter you with facts.  In March  the height of the smalle uproar had aroound 50,000 members in Retake and they made up the majority of the minority especially when ME3 kept on selling thousands of copies.  Later in April, Retake grew about 10,000 more members while millions of copies for ME3 kept on being sold. 

[SpamBot2000]

Blueprotoss wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Bah, of course it's easy to pick one of the stupid choices. Well, maybe not Synthesis. But the thing is, it doesn't really feel like anything. Not sad cos EDI & the Geth are gone. Not happy. Not like a victory. How is that "bittersweet"?

BioWare CAN write movingly, when they can be bothered to.

I doubt you know what bittersweet means based on how the ME series follows the Hero's Tale and the Greek Tragedy.

This guy is just pissed off I stole the name he feels he deserves...

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 01 août 2012 - 02:16 .

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Yet your scope is limited. You really see no way of implimenting these ideas? I can think of at least 3 ways they could have done exactly what I'm suggesting using the game mechnics they have already created and employed in ME2 and ME3. Want me to share?

Ironically your scope would be limited since you want what you want instead of what millions of people want.

Greylycantrope wrote... 

I'd like to see the statistics supporting this claim. I'm assuming the reason everyone loved the endings was why we got the EC to begin with? BTW I never said there wouldn't be any critisims just less then there currently is.

A lot of people liked the endings before the EC while there's less of the vocal minority complaining about the endings in general.  Haters gonna hate.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Proof? 

It won't be shown on BSN based on all of the biased negativity that comes with every Bioware game.

Ozida wrote...

Haha. Just haha. Do your research properly, please. At this point it is fairly half and half.

Pot calling the kettle black because Retake ME3 is all the proof that I need to counter you with facts.  In March  the height of the smalle uproar had aroound 50,000 members in Retake and they made up the majority of the minority especially when ME3 kept on selling thousands of copies.  Later in April, Retake grew about 10,000 more members while millions of copies for ME3 kept on being sold. 

*Claims one statistic is biased and too limited to show an accurate represnentiton of a claim*
*Proceeds to use a biased and limited  statistic to show the accuracy of his claim while using pot/kettle analogy*
Priceless:lol:

[Ozida]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Proof? 

It won't be shown on BSN based on all of the biased negativity that comes with every Bioware game.

Ozida wrote...

Haha. Just haha. Do your research properly, please. At this point it is fairly half and half.

Pot calling the kettle black because Retake ME3 is all the proof that I need to counter you with facts.  In March  the height of the smalle uproar had aroound 50,000 members in Retake and they made up the majority of the minority especially when ME3 kept on selling thousands of copies.  Later in April, Retake grew about 10,000 more members while millions of copies for ME3 kept on being sold. 

*Claims one statistic is biased and too limited to show an accurate represnentiton of a claim*
*Proceeds to use a biased and limited  statistic to show the accuracy of his claim while using pot/kettle analogy*
Priceless:lol:

I know! This guy is using numbers like a space magic  to solve his claims! That's why I like BSN, it makes me laugh from time to time.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Yet your scope is limited. You really see no way of implimenting these ideas? I can think of at least 3 ways they could have done exactly what I'm suggesting using the game mechnics they have already created and employed in ME2 and ME3. Want me to share?

Ironically your scope would be limited since you want what you want instead of what millions of people want.

My scope includes a wider spectrum then what currently exists, again want me to explain it?

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote... 

I'd like to see the statistics supporting this claim. I'm assuming the reason everyone loved the endings was why we got the EC to begin with? BTW I never said there wouldn't be any critisims just less then there currently is.

A lot of people liked the endings before the EC while there's less of the vocal minority complaining about the endings in general.  Haters gonna hate.

again data please

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Pot calling the kettle black because Retake ME3 is all the proof that I need to counter you with facts.  In March  the height of the smalle uproar had aroound 50,000 members in Retake and they made up the majority of the minority especially when ME3 kept on selling thousands of copies.  Later in April, Retake grew about 10,000 more members while millions of copies for ME3 kept on being sold. 

*Claims one statistic is biased and too limited to show an accurate represnentiton of a claim*
*Proceeds to use a biased and limited  statistic to show the accuracy of his claim while using pot/kettle analogy*
Priceless:lol:

Yet I'm not talking about polls or statistics while its not that hard to compare national or international iNPD sales with a rage group called Retake.  Ironicaly you haven't provided anything to counter the facts.

Ozida wrote...
I know! This guy is using numbers like a space magic  to solve his claims! That's why I like BSN, it makes me laugh from time to time.

Yet you would be using this so called space magic based on how you haven't presented any facts to continue this debate. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 août 2012 - 02:29 .

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

My scope includes a wider spectrum then what currently exists, again want me to explain it?

Yet you're scope is still very limited since you're only focusing on what you want instead of what millions of people wanted.

Greylycantrope wrote... 

again data please

The data is already present and looking at BSN or Youtube polls won't help you.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Pot calling the kettle black because Retake ME3 is all the proof that I need to counter you with facts.  In March  the height of the smalle uproar had aroound 50,000 members in Retake and they made up the majority of the minority especially when ME3 kept on selling thousands of copies.  Later in April, Retake grew about 10,000 more members while millions of copies for ME3 kept on being sold. 

*Claims one statistic is biased and too limited to show an accurate represnentiton of a claim*
*Proceeds to use a biased and limited  statistic to show the accuracy of his claim while using pot/kettle analogy*
Priceless:lol:

Yet I'm not talking about polls or statistics while its not that hard to compare national or international iNPD sales with a rage group called Retake.  Ironicaly you haven't provided anything to counter the facts.

Yet you're making a claim regarding statistics, whatever data you use is ment to reflect that claim and is therefore  statistic data. I never made a statistical claim the burden of proof is on you. BTW you're not using the term Ironically correctly. OMG that last sentence was a huge straw-mann!

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 01 août 2012 - 02:36 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

iakus wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Destroy was a total victory for me.

Destroy had my Shepard commiting genocide and murder.  And got buried in rubble for his troubles

And it's still the best ending of the lot.


And Bioware's confused why this wasn't well received?

and people at Bioware can't even decide if Shepard lives or dies

If you really want to be that ignorant then you can say this about any game that had a hero "dieing".

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

My scope includes a wider spectrum then what currently exists, again want me to explain it?

Yet you're scope is still very limited since you're only focusing on what you want instead of what millions of people wanted.

Greylycantrope wrote... 

again data please

The data is already present and looking at BSN or Youtube polls won't help you.

And we've entered broken record mode.

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Yet you're making a claim regarding statistics, whatever data you use is ment to reflect that claim and is therefore  statistic data. I never made a statistical claim the burden of proof is on you. BTW you're not using the term Ironically correctly. OMG that last sentence was a huge straw-mann!

Again I'm not talking about polls or statistics while its not that hard to compare national or international iNPD sales with a rage group called Retake.  Ironically you haven't provided anything to counter the facts even a basic opinion would do better then you completely avoiding it.  Btw thats not a straw-mann at all especially when you aren't trying to counter it while the "polls" on BSN and Youtube can't help you anyways based on the extreme bias of the Internet.

Greylycantrope wrote...

And we've entered broken record mode.

Pot caling the kettle black since you providing nothing to counter other then petty insults and ad hominems. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 août 2012 - 02:41 .

[loungeshep]

Let's see, I can control the Reapers, I can merge all life, I can destroy the Reapers.

Either way the galaxy is saved, they can rebuild, and if I destroy the Reapers Shepard somehow lives.

Or I can tell the Catalyst to ****** off, fight and win my way, which means we lose (I wish they would've let us continue the game after this honestly, keep fighting etc.).

Three out of four feels like a victory. The fourth is more of a moral victory.

So yeah, when I beat ME3 I have a feeling of victory.

[Ozida]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you would be using this so called space magic based on how you haven't presented any facts to continue this debate. 

Ok, let's debate then.

Let me see, 1,3 million copies of ME3 were sold in the first month the games has launched. That obviously happened, because previous games were so freaking great, that people were dying to see what happen next. At that point NOBODY but BioWare knew what the game would be, so it is unfair to say that people bought it because they loved ME3 so much. I'd say that another million was sold before EC came out (although, considering the sales were dropping, this good be a good stretch). So 2,3 million copies.

After that over 13,500 people on Facebook along with over 1,500 people on Twitter has supported Demand a better endings over a single day. By the time EC was promised, I think it hit 57,000 on Facebook. I don't know the exact Twitter number, so I will just add those 1,500. And we have 58,500 vocally unsatisfied customers.

According to marketing research (and it was posted on BSN earlier, but unfortunately I cannot find a link) for 1 vocal upset customer come 26 upset people who did not vocally complained. Multiple 58,500 to 26 and we get 1,521,000 unsatisfied customers. That makes it 66% of unsatisfied customers, who are being called "minorities" for no good reason.

Problems?