495 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonathan Shepard]

DocGriffin wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
Control- too many variables too much possibility for Shep to go crazy and restart the cycle
Destroy- just look at my sig and take a guess
All of the choices were choosing how you lose not choosing how you win.  I just wanted a victory, maybe with some losses, but not entire sentient races, and then a clip of Shepard with his/her LI a la TDKR.  I really do not think that is too much to ask.

Oh I see, you were looking for an ending without any bittersweet elements to it. Honestly, I went into the game knowing there wouldn't be a 'perfect' ending. It's practically drilled into your head that 'hey, we're not coming out of this unscathed,' so I think if you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to enjoy the endings.

-snip-

We were also drilled into thinking not everyone would survive ME2. Alas, it's possible. Your argument is invalid.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

When did i say it wasn't? wtf are you talking about anymore?

I apologize then because it sounded like you were acting like Aocalypse Now and Spec Ops: the Line didn't share the Heart of Darkness basis.  If yo can't make your point clear then you shouldn't blame anyone else then yourself.

I could also blame your fuzzy logic. I was refering to games that had themes similar to heart of darkness, how you drew the conclusion that the game I referenced was in my eyes the only incarnation of this theme is beyond me.

[Fawx9]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Not really. Bioware isn't the first company to respond to fan outrage(The fact that they responded should say something but I digress).

Actually Bethesda didn't fold on Fallout and neiher did Bioware on ME3 based on how they weren't new endings but they were extensions.

 

Fawx9 wrote... 

Blizzard also responded to the overwhelming negative feedback they got on their intial plans for their RealId. Like this it was mostly a forum outrage, but even when you try to take into consideration bias, the mass of complaints gets to a point where you can't just handwave it away as a vocal minority.

The Real ID system is still around yet the system has been around for 5-6 years and systems like that usually go through revisions.

Fawx9 wrote... 

Let me put it this way, would they alter their DLC schedule and release a free DLC(having to pay VAs for more lines, art teams, etc)  just to appease a vocal minority that is inconsequential to their buisness? 

Bioware was already working on the EC before ME3's release based on a fast response and Martin Sheen's last quote in the Voice Actor trailer for ME3.

1) I never mentioned fallout, but sure. Also I heared that Sherlock Holmes stayed dead and the author didn't change his mind at all.

2) You forgot to mention the part where that 'revision' was done after announcing how the system would work back in 2010, and how Blizzard was lambasted accross the internet becuase of their silly ideas.  Shockingly they didn't handwave it as a vocal minority and instead did something in response.

3) Except they've said they changed their schedule to make the EC. So I'm going to go with that rather than beliveing some weird conspiracy where it was actually being made in secret and was intended all along. (Also this makes the company look worse as it would be admitting that they released an unfinished ending that would need to be patched)

[Nightwriter]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

Shepard Cmdr wrote...
Synthesis- no, just no completely creeps me out aside from completely killing all culture:sick:
Control- too many variables too much possibility for Shep to go crazy and restart the cycle
Destroy- just look at my sig and take a guess
All of the choices were choosing how you lose not choosing how you win.  I just wanted a victory, maybe with some losses, but not entire sentient races, and then a clip of Shepard with his/her LI a la TDKR.  I really do not think that is too much to ask.

Oh I see, you were looking for an ending without any bittersweet elements to it. Honestly, I went into the game knowing there wouldn't be a 'perfect' ending. It's practically drilled into your head that 'hey, we're not coming out of this unscathed,' so I think if you come to terms with that it's a lot easier to enjoy the endings.

-snip-

We were also drilled into thinking not everyone would survive ME2. Alas, it's possible. Your argument is invalid.

Point to JS.

[spirosz]

Blue, I'm asking for proof, I didn't say base it off the negativity on BSN - show me statistics from other websites, magazines, your own space magic numbers, etc. Btw, I'm not claiming that you're right or wrong, as you might use that for an argument, I'm just saying that you say these things and I would like to see the backup of these statements. 

Modifié par spirosz, 01 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[dirty console peasant]

Blueprotoss wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Asking for a game to give you a satisfying conclusion based on the effort you put into raising your EMS and choices you made along the way is not an unrealistic expectation.

Ironically you are asking for an unrealistic expectation because everyone has their own tastes and a satisfying conclusion is in the eye of the beholder based on how its a video game series designed for millions of people.

Most games don't make for multiple Forbes articles. Something went wrong.

I could careless about Forbes since they were just catering to the contraversy just like most of the media does to blow things out of proportion.  The ME3 small uproar was about the same size of the other contraversies that happened this year like Dark Souls being a Game for Windows, Diablo 3 closed beta sigil, Lara Croft's sexual assault, Agent 47 killing sexy nuns, Skyward Sword being the 1st Zedla game, Operation Raccoon City wasn't a remake of RE2, DoA5's CE having a swimsuit pack for its female fighers, and Street Fighter x Tekken having a 12 player DLC pack.  No game is contraversy free these days especially when the Internet is involved.

You caring less is irrelevant. Something's wrong on the output end with that kind of backlash.

Yet the same amount of backlash that ME3 got is the same amount that Dark Souls on the PC, Diablo 3, Tomb Raider, Hitman: Absolution, Zelda: Skyward Sword, RE: ORC, DoA5, and Street Fighter x Tekken got.  Video games are never free from contraversies like Mortal Kombat's violenece,  Lara Croft's cones, San Andres's hot coffee mod, Oblivion's nude skins uncovered in the Developer files, ME1's sex scenes, and MW2 airport massacre are a few contraversies in short history of video games.  Btw most of the contrversies are created by the media and allows them to make money off of those hits whether its on tv, the radio, or the intene.  Either way tFox News is a perfect example of the media causing problems out of thin air.

The ME1 controversy was Fox blowing things out of proportion as usual
Same with MW2s Airport massacre
for those of you who have not seen them here they are
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
There is a difference between someone who has probably never touched a game in their life complaining and someone who has played all three ME games more times than they can count making a complaint that Biowares "art" is actually just a polished turd.  ME1 = Art,  ME3 =/= art.  I blame the rEApers but I just wish that bioware would admit that they screwed up and just FIX THE GODDAM ENDINGS.
not losing =/= victory

Modifié par Shepard Cmdr, 01 août 2012 - 04:28 .

[Ztrobos]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

 At the end of ME1 I felt victorious
Same with ME2
ME3 left me feeling like I had lost even post EC
I do not play a game to lose I play it to win.

In gaming terms you did win. In terms of storytelling, people sometimes forget that they are the audience. There is a danger in reading a book or watching a movie: you won't know how it will end until it does. 

Sometimes it just amazes me how entitled some fans can get. Shepard should have kicked more ass, conventional victory should happen, synthetics and organics should co-exist. All of it anathema to what the storyteller was trying to convey. 

If you did'nt like the story thats totally fine, but if you can't accept the story in it's final incarnation, then it's time to try and move on.

[AlanC9]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

We were also drilled into thinking not everyone would survive ME2. Alas, it's possible. Your argument is invalid.

True, but that's a problem with ME2's design. The game should have forced the Reaper IFF mission the way Horizon was forced, so you could only complete all the LMs by getting your crew juiced.

[Ozida]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...
We were also drilled into thinking not everyone would survive ME2. Alas, it's possible. Your argument is invalid

True, but that's a problem with ME2's design. The game should have forced the Reaper IFF mission the way Horizon was forced, so you could only complete all the LMs by getting your crew juiced.

You forgot to add "in my opinion". Because if they did exactly what you are saying in ME2, I personally would be pretty pissed off.

Modifié par Ozida, 01 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

When did i say it wasn't? wtf are you talking about anymore?

I apologize then because it sounded like you were acting like Aocalypse Now and Spec Ops: the Line didn't share the Heart of Darkness basis.  If yo can't make your point clear then you shouldn't blame anyone else then yourself.

I could also blame your fuzzy logic. I was refering to games that had themes similar to heart of darkness, how you drew the conclusion that the game I referenced was in my eyes the only incarnation of this theme is beyond me.

Yet interpretation is based on opinion not fact and its useless to insult someone.

[Yakko77]

Reject End, everyone dies. Sucks. An F U from BW IMO. Control and Synthesis just seem out of character for Shep and break game lore though Control is the lesser of that. Destroy seems to fit the game and Shep as a character best but of all the ends it's the least conclusive when it comes to Sheps fate whereas Shep is clearly and unmistakably dead in the other endings.

[Blueprotoss]

Fawx9 wrote...

1) I never mentioned fallout, but sure. Also I heared that Sherlock Holmes stayed dead and the author didn't change his mind at all.

I figured that you meant Fallout 3 while whole Sherlock Holmes death was published in a jornal, which what most writers in Europe did with their literary works for feedback.

Fawx9 wrote...
 
2) You forgot to mention the part where that 'revision' was done after announcing how the system would work back in 2010, and how Blizzard was lambasted accross the internet becuase of their silly ideas.  Shockingly they didn't handwave it as a vocal minority and instead did something in response.

Yet the "revisiotn" isn't a surprise based on how Blizzard have made mutiple announcements that the Real ID system was being tweaked for SC2: Heart of the Swarm.  If you noticed this then you would know that a vocal minority didn't change a 5-6 year old system that added, removed, and altered the system over multiple game releases.

Fawx9 wrote...  

3) Except they've said they changed their schedule to make the EC. So I'm going to go with that rather than beliveing some weird conspiracy where it was actually being made in secret and was intended all along. (Also this makes the company look worse as it would be admitting that they released an unfinished ending that would need to be patched)

Bioware changed their schedule to make the EC a priority over the other SP DLC while the conspiracy would be deny that the "fans" caused the production on the EC to happen.

[Blueprotoss]

spirosz wrote...

Blue, I'm asking for proof, I didn't say base it off the negativity on BSN - show me statistics from other websites, magazines, your own space magic numbers, etc. Btw, I'm not claiming that you're right or wrong, as you might use that for an argument, I'm just saying that you say these things and I would like to see the backup of these statements. 

I gave you the information by looking at the national/international NPD sales and the RetakeME3 member numbers.  Btw you still haven't countered the facts that I have shown you just your reliance on opinion to get information.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I'd asked how that statement has something to do with anything but I really don't care.

[dirty console peasant]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

We were also drilled into thinking not everyone would survive ME2. Alas, it's possible. Your argument is invalid.

True, but that's a problem with ME2's design. The game should have forced the Reaper IFF mission the way Horizon was forced, so you could only complete all the LMs by getting your crew juiced.

I recently did a speedrun on ME2 Recruited the only two characters that I recruited that were not the origional 6 were zaeed, and Tali.  The LMs that I did were Tali, Jack, Zaeed, Garrus, and Grunt,  I successfuly navigated the SM with no casualties (even crew) and I did not wait after I recieved the IFF mission to take it.  I was even able to squeeze in LotSB. (all LMs were done after Horizon, even Zaeed)
Edit:
Tali took the vents while Garrus led the second fireteam
Jack held the bubble while Garrus again led the second fireteam
Tali led the crew to safety
Took Jack, and Grunt with me to kill the terminator
hold the line members were Mordin-0, Zaeed-4, Garrus-4, Jacob-1, Miranda-1 sum of defence values =10 average =2 everyone survived.

Modifié par Shepard Cmdr, 01 août 2012 - 04:40 .

[Mcfly616]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The sense of victory also comes with a sense of defeat.

Which happens in war.

If anything was accomplished, they certainly captured that vibe from Apocalypse Now well.

A true heart of darkness I would say.

Spec OPs the line was actually base on heart of darkness. Would have played that if that's what I wanted.

so....because one game has a sense of victory that also comes with a sense of defeat, other games such as Mass Effect aren't allowed to do something similar? Lol umm ok.....

[MetioricTest]

Blueprotoss wrote...

MetioricTest wrote...

Ironically you are asking for an unrealistic expectation because everyone has their own tastes and a satisfying conclusion is in the eye of the beholder based on how its a video game series designed for millions of people.

The rest of the game was received pretty well universally.

And thousands of other stories overcame this problem.

the current ending just sucks

I highly doubt this espcially when Metacritic, which is a very biased site, showed enough rage to have anger as soon as Bioware mentioned the "From Ashes" DLC.   Internet rage will always be biased and you can't accurately measure anonymity.

Whoever was unhappy will always complain.

But you're deluding yourself if you think that means it isn't clear when something is well recieved or badly recieved in general. The ending controversy for this game has been so ludcriously loud and widespread that calling it "Just a few disgrunted people who had different tastes" is absurd.

The very fact we're having this conversation right now on a forum full of conversations like it right now in a sea of other forums with this conversation right now while Spec-Ops The Line fans aren't, is proof of that.

Equally so

[Blueprotoss]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

The ME1 controversy was Fox blowing things out of proportion as usual
Same with MW2s Airport massacre
for those of you who have not seen them here they are
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Sadlly they're still random and crazy.

Shepard Cmdr wrote... 

There is a difference between someone who has probably never touched a game in their life complaining and someone who has played all three ME games more times than they can count making a complaint that Biowares "art" is actually just a polished turd.  ME1 = Art,  ME3 =/= art.  I blame the rEApers but I just wish that bioware would admit that they screwed up and just FIX THE GODDAM ENDINGS.

Ironically everything is art whether you like it or not.  I hate Kanye West and everything Twilight while I can't deny them being art even with my dislike of them.  Bioware didn't screw up at all based on how everyone got a war with the Reapers and Bioware created what they wanted to since ME is their Intellectual Property aka IP.

Shepard Cmdr wrote...  

not losing =/= victory

Then there is no such thing a victory because somehing will always be lost.

[Fawx9]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

1) I never mentioned fallout, but sure. Also I heared that Sherlock Holmes stayed dead and the author didn't change his mind at all.

I figured that you meant Fallout 3 while whole Sherlock Holmes death was published in a jornal, which what most writers in Europe did with their literary works for feedback.

Fawx9 wrote...
 
2) You forgot to mention the part where that 'revision' was done after announcing how the system would work back in 2010, and how Blizzard was lambasted accross the internet becuase of their silly ideas.  Shockingly they didn't handwave it as a vocal minority and instead did something in response.

Yet the "revisiotn" isn't a surprise based on how Blizzard have made mutiple announcements that the Real ID system was being tweaked for SC2: Heart of the Swarm.  If you noticed this then you would know that a vocal minority didn't change a 5-6 year old system that added, removed, and altered the system over multiple game releases.

Fawx9 wrote...  

3) Except they've said they changed their schedule to make the EC. So I'm going to go with that rather than beliveing some weird conspiracy where it was actually being made in secret and was intended all along. (Also this makes the company look worse as it would be admitting that they released an unfinished ending that would need to be patched)

Bioware changed their schedule to make the EC a priority over the other SP DLC while the conspiracy would be deny that the "fans" caused the production on the EC to happen.

First of all Real ID is only 3 years old in terms of deployment.

Secondly when the CEO makes this statement :

I'd like to take some time to speak with all of you regarding our desire
to make the Blizzard forums a better place for players to discuss our
games. We've been constantly monitoring the feedback you've given us, as
well as internally discussing your concerns about the use of real names
on our forums. As a result of those discussions, we've decided at this
time that real names will not be required for posting on official
Blizzard forums.

I'm going to take his word over your revisionist history and once again state that it was the fans that got it changed.

PS That was 3 days after their intial posting concerning the idea, which caused the backlash.

TLDR: You're wrong, fan outcrys have and will continue to change things. Those on the internet are not always a negligible minority.

Modifié par Fawx9, 01 août 2012 - 04:43 .

[spirosz]

Blueprotoss wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Blue, I'm asking for proof, I didn't say base it off the negativity on BSN - show me statistics from other websites, magazines, your own space magic numbers, etc. Btw, I'm not claiming that you're right or wrong, as you might use that for an argument, I'm just saying that you say these things and I would like to see the backup of these statements. 

I gave you the information by looking at the national/international NPD sales and the RetakeME3 member numbers.  Btw you still haven't countered the facts that I have shown you just your reliance on opinion to get information.

Sales = satisfactory with the game itself? Could of fooled me. Look at how many people people keep buying COD, yet the same people complain about it every year, gamers are truly a weird bunch.

Question, what was the point of the EC is it was just the minority? It's not like they would be worried about future sales/products or fans staying because "it's just the minority", right?  

[Blueprotoss]

MetioricTest wrote...

Whoever was unhappy will always complain.

This is true.

MetioricTest wrote... 

But you're deluding yourself if you think that means it isn't clear when something is well recieved or badly recieved in general. The ending controversy for this game has been so ludcriously loud and widespread that calling it "Just a few disgrunted people who had different tastes" is absurd. 

I'm not deluded at all while the ME3 ending contraversy isn't any bigger then ME1 with the Mako, DA with the KotR style gameplay, and ME2/DA2 being more action based then ME1/DA.  Heck there's more contraversy coming from "sexism" in the Tomb Raider reboot, Hitman: Absolution, DoA5, anLollipop Chainsaw.  

MetioricTest wrote... 

The very fact we're having this conversation right now on a forum full of conversations like it right now in a sea of other forums with this conversation right now while Spec-Ops The Line fans aren't, is proof of that.

The Internet is filled with contraversies and thats nothing new when some people will always rage over something because of anonymity.

MetioricTest wrote... 

Equally so

 You mean two wrongs don't make a right.

[Blueprotoss]

Fawx9 wrote...  

First of all Real ID is only 3 years old in terms of deployment. 

Yet it was imploymented in Wrath of the Lich King, which I'm not a WoW player and I know that.

Fawx9 wrote...

Secondly when the CEO makes this statement :

I'm going to take his word over your revisionist history and once again state that it was the fans that got it changed. 

 Activision doesn't speak for Blizzard while Vivendi would be a different story. 

Fawx9 wrote... 

PS That was 3 days after their intial posting concerning the idea, which caused the backlash.

I highly doubt that espcially when everyone gets meaningless nasty backlash even nice Nintendo.

Fawx9 wrote...  

TLDR: You're wrong, fan outcrys have and will continue to change things. Those on the internet are not always a negligible minority.

Yet opinion isn't fact and you clearly aren't interested in the facts.  "Fans" actually cause more problems then good while the real fans do help.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The sense of victory also comes with a sense of defeat.

Which happens in war.

If anything was accomplished, they certainly captured that vibe from Apocalypse Now well.

A true heart of darkness I would say.

Spec OPs the line was actually base on heart of darkness. Would have played that if that's what I wanted.

so....because one game has a sense of victory that also comes with a sense of defeat, other games such as Mass Effect aren't allowed to do something similar? Lol umm ok.....

Not what I'm saying, Mass Effect had more themes other then war is hell, to focus on just that can alienate a fair chunck of an established fanbase.

[Blueprotoss]

spirosz wrote...

Sales = satisfactory with the game itself? Could of fooled me. Look at how many people people keep buying COD, yet the same people complain about it every year, gamers are truly a weird bunch.

Yet people say this about Assassin's Creed, Halo, Madden, Fifa, Need for Speed, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Sonic, and Dynasty Warriors game while they still well every year.

spirosz wrote... 

Question, what was the point of the EC is it was just the minority? It's not like they would be worried about future sales/products or fans staying because "it's just the minority", right?  

The minority hated the endings with or without the EC while you might get over your rage when you're willing to hear the facts.

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

so....because one game has a sense of victory that also comes with a sense of defeat, other games such as Mass Effect aren't allowed to do something similar? Lol umm ok.....

Not what I'm saying, Mass Effect had more themes other then war is hell, to focus on just that can alienate a fair chunck of an established fanbase.

Yet war is hell isn't the only theme in Apocalypse Now or Spec Ops: the Line, which makes you sound contradicting.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 01 août 2012 - 05:09 .