495 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

zsom wrote...

Ozida wrote...

zsom wrote...

And I want Hamlet to be rewritten as well.. he totally deserves to be together with the crazy chick who drowned herself. And I want Maximus to become emperor, and Mel Gibson to win against the English.

Anything but a perfect fairy tale ending just doesn't do it for our generation! Well.. if you have to, then you can kill off some no name NPCs, but not too many...

Oh, so we put ME3 now in the same line with Homer, Shakespeare and Dostoevsky? Excuse me, I will go puke for some time and will return to this debate regarding "pure art".

Absolutely! SInce Maximus Decimus Meridius is a character in the Odyssey and Braveheart was written by Dostoevsky. Oh wait a minute... Maybe we should put ME3 in the same line as the other products of modern entertainment industry.

Yeah! Mel Gibson wrote Hamlet!

[Chashan]

DocGriffin wrote...

What about the ending felt unvictorious to you? Were you looking for a Star Wars medal ceremony a la Shep's survival and reunion? Because you can feel victorious without that. I mean, unless you chose Refusal, you get to see the Reapers either destroyed, under your control, or helping to rebuild the galaxy. I'd feel pretty victorious with any of those, given the goal of the series was stopping them.

Two out of those did not leave much of a sense of victory with me.

Having said that, Destroy post-EC was triumphant alright. Only actual "Imma chargin mah cruceebl"-ending whose ambiente meshes well with the "eulogy"-scene on the Normandy too, to be had.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Look eventually Shepard would have started shooting at stuff and eventually would have hit something that set off the big boom. Starbrat isn't the Catalyst. It's a propaganda machine. It's the AI that controls the reapers. It doesn't want you to destroy the reapers. It's trying to prevent you from doing that. It's going to try to talk you out of that. Walters can't write his way out of a paper bag. Couldn't sell Synthesis so he put those stipulations on Destroy.

Originally regarding post ending DLC: "What's the point? It's a wasteland!" -- Mac Walters interview.

On the destroy ending that thing "Child" aka "Mac Walters" to whom we were speaking in the Citadel took his marbles and went home. Seriously. High EMS Destroy. 7650 EMS, and all I get is a ****ing 1/4 second gasp for air? "Head canon your reunion."

This is one of the worst endings in video gaming history. Synthesis and Control got closure. Destroy? No closure. Screw you, Mac Walters. Head canon my money for single player DLC. The single player campaign is not worth replaying.

The only part of the game that's worth anything is the multi-player at least while I'm waiting for Borderlands 2 and Halo 4.

[Chashan]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

[...]
This is one of the worst endings in video gaming history. Synthesis and Control got closure. Destroy? No closure. Screw you, Mac Walters. Head canon my money for single player DLC. The single player campaign is not worth replaying.

The only part of the game that's worth anything is the multi-player at least while I'm waiting for Borderlands 2 and Halo 4.

"Closure" is not much of a problem for me, and it is rather crystal-clear that Shepard pulls through and is found by the gang. No matter what some more jolly fellows like to claim.

Agreed on the MP-part though: the only thing of ME3 I am perusing these days is MP, too much fun compared to SP

[Ieldra]

Andrew_S wrote...
Stop a 300 year war, cure a disease that has kept a people down for 1,400 years, stop Reapers from terrorizing the galaxy (that has gone on for maybe 1 billion years), save every inhabited planet in the known galaxy before it is too late and every species from extinction, (possibly) save species long thought dead from being wiped out for good, and at the end becoming a heroic martyr for future generations to inspire, a synthetic all powerful being (protective or for you sith lovers, oppressive), or living on after the mission is accomplished. I feel like a boss.

Now everything sure didn't happen the way I personally would have liked, and those original endings were garbage, but victory sure is sweet.

I second this. With the EC, the ending makes me smile. Any of the three main endings. I've made the galaxy a better place in several ways.

But I still resent that the solutions were handed down to me by some god-like authority figure.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Andrew_S wrote...
Stop a 300 year war, cure a disease that has kept a people down for 1,400 years, stop Reapers from terrorizing the galaxy (that has gone on for maybe 1 billion years), save every inhabited planet in the known galaxy before it is too late and every species from extinction, (possibly) save species long thought dead from being wiped out for good, and at the end becoming a heroic martyr for future generations to inspire, a synthetic all powerful being (protective or for you sith lovers, oppressive), or living on after the mission is accomplished. I feel like a boss.

Now everything sure didn't happen the way I personally would have liked, and those original endings were garbage, but victory sure is sweet.

I second this. With the EC, the ending makes me smile. Any of the three main endings. I've made the galaxy a better place in several ways.

But I still resent that the solutions were handed down to me by some god-like authority figure.

This.

At least I feel something this time. I didn't have that before.

[Ryoten]

I agree that in my 20+ years of gaming, this was deffinetly the worst ending I've seen.

[AtreiyaN7]

Almost everything in this thread can be reduced to one word at this point: wah.

[incinerator950]

...Its like BSN was hit with the retarded stick again.

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

But I still resent that the solutions were handed down to me by some god-like authority figure.

That's a dealbreaker.

I mean, really. I didn't defeat my enemy, I renegotiated with him on his terms and came to an agreed solution on his terms. I've got no idea why they decided to turn our nemesis into this weird figure that occupies a funky gray area between enemy and neutral party.

[Blueprotoss]

Shepard Cmdr wrote...

 At the end of ME1 I felt victorious
Same with ME2
ME3 left me feeling like I had lost even post EC
I do not play a game to lose I play it to win.

It seems like you haven't played that many games that allow you to personally survive, saving a group of people, or preventing a Galaxy based genocide.

[Blueprotoss]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

But I still resent that the solutions were handed down to me by some god-like authority figure.

That's a dealbreaker.

I mean, really. I didn't defeat my enemy, I renegotiated with him on his terms and came to an agreed solution on his terms. I've got no idea why they decided to turn our nemesis into this weird figure that occupies a funky gray area between enemy and neutral party.

How is that when God(s) isn't anything new as a concept especially in the sci-fi genre.

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Look eventually Shepard would have started shooting at stuff and eventually would have hit something that set off the big boom. Starbrat isn't the Catalyst. It's a propaganda machine. It's the AI that controls the reapers. It doesn't want you to destroy the reapers. It's trying to prevent you from doing that. It's going to try to talk you out of that. Walters can't write his way out of a paper bag. Couldn't sell Synthesis so he put those stipulations on Destroy.

Originally regarding post ending DLC: "What's the point? It's a wasteland!" -- Mac Walters interview.

On the destroy ending that thing "Child" aka "Mac Walters" to whom we were speaking in the Citadel took his marbles and went home. Seriously. High EMS Destroy. 7650 EMS, and all I get is a ****ing 1/4 second gasp for air? "Head canon your reunion."

This is one of the worst endings in video gaming history. Synthesis and Control got closure. Destroy? No closure. Screw you, Mac Walters. Head canon my money for single player DLC. The single player campaign is not worth replaying.

The only part of the game that's worth anything is the multi-player at least while I'm waiting for Borderlands 2 and Halo 4.

Pretty much agree on all of that, except I'm not even playing MP.  I'm waiting for the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition to be released.  I mourn at how far Bioware has fallen.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It boils down to this: don't end a 150 hr trilogy with a head canon. I didn't pay for that. I paid for a story with an ending, not an open end. No, they had to get tricky. It didn't work for me and it didn't work for a lot of people. Six seconds. Six seconds showing at minimum rescue instead of a gasp; or six seconds at the end of the high EMS showing Shepard and LI (or team) standing watching the sunrise symbolizing a new beginning instead of that breath scene.

Control and Synthesis got to say goodbye to Shep when they sacrificed. Breath scene? WTF? That's been from BW a "yes Sheps alive" to "that's Sheps last breath." WTF? Head canon. That's no ending.

The open end method works for some people, it doesn't work for others. It doesn't mean some people are smarter or less imaginative than others either.

[Ozida]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

zsom wrote...

Ozida wrote...

zsom wrote...

And I want Hamlet to be rewritten as well.. he totally deserves to be together with the crazy chick who drowned herself. And I want Maximus to become emperor, and Mel Gibson to win against the English.

Anything but a perfect fairy tale ending just doesn't do it for our generation! Well.. if you have to, then you can kill off some no name NPCs, but not too many...

Oh, so we put ME3 now in the same line with Homer, Shakespeare and Dostoevsky? Excuse me, I will go puke for some time and will return to this debate regarding "pure art".

Absolutely! SInce Maximus Decimus Meridius is a character in the Odyssey and Braveheart was written by Dostoevsky. Oh wait a minute... Maybe we should put ME3 in the same line as the other products of modern entertainment industry.

Yeah! Mel Gibson wrote Hamlet!

All I'm saying is let's not bring a real classic tragedies when talking about ME3 (unless you were talking about Hamlet movie or something).  A tragedy along with drama is built on canon principles developed from ancient Greek theatre  which are followed up to nowadays.

And you favorite Hollywood reference to a happy-ending is made without a realization that all tragedy movies are as cheesy as happy ones because they are based on the same entries-old principles. You do not turn comedy into drama all of a sudden. Writers actually learn steps to bring a play or a movie to a dramatic conclusion; they don't invent them.

So if you claim that "modern generation" doesn't want to see anything but happy-endings, you are not paying attention to a fact that Mass Effect never started as a tragedy, and for that it failed to follow the basic rules of such. They should've done a better work from start then.

And I don't care if we couldn't win against all odds without losses because of logic... Because, brining a "modern" media examples, we would be sooo doomed in Armageddon with its meteorite bomb if we followed the logic, as well as we would never see any survivors in XMen battles. Yes, I put ME in the same line with comics as much as art goes. It is an entertainment media, not a philosophical "To be or not to be" tractate.

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It boils down to this: don't end a 150 hr trilogy with a head canon. I didn't pay for that. I paid for a story with an ending, not an open end. No, they had to get tricky. It didn't work for me and it didn't work for a lot of people. Six seconds. Six seconds showing at minimum rescue instead of a gasp; or six seconds at the end of the high EMS showing Shepard and LI (or team) standing watching the sunrise symbolizing a new beginning instead of that breath scene.

Control and Synthesis got to say goodbye to Shep when they sacrificed. Breath scene? WTF? That's been from BW a "yes Sheps alive" to "that's Sheps last breath." WTF? Head canon. That's no ending.

The open end method works for some people, it doesn't work for others. It doesn't mean some people are smarter or less imaginative than others either.

This, again.

To many people implications =/= closure.  Particularly when there's so many endings avilable that don't have these implications (SHepard is definitely dead in these)  Shepard Lives is more easter egg than ending.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Shepard's survival in Destroy is undetermined by anything other than the player's headcanon.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Jassu1979 wrote...

thematic wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

And you do realize that the people who established this "irrevocable fact" are the ones responsible for the ending? Mass Effect 1 certainly did not establish that the Reapers were completely invincible - neither did ME2. It was only in the third game that the Reapers suddenly became absolutely unstoppable; and even then, a single person with a laser pointer could bring one of them down if the plot demanded it.
But of course, the Reapers had to be "unstoppable" if you wanted to give the game the kind of ending we got: the worst possible mixture of the "magical Off-button" and unavoidable tragedy.

You're kidding, right? In ME1, the only reason--the only reason--that Sovereign--a single Reaper--is defeated is because his shields were down from reanimating Saren. The Codex says this. We couldn't even beat a single Reaper conventionally. From the very beginning. The Reapers were always nearly unstoppable, if not completely so. ME3 was where they became fragile, unfortunately: to allow the ending that we got, which is far too kind of an ending based on ME1 info.

I'd love to keep discussing this, but it's  early morning here so I must go. But remember--we could not have defeated Sovereign in ME1 were it not for him reanimating Saren.

Sovereign depended on the element of surprise, and only attacked with the support of a whole geth fleet. Heck, the whole original Reaper invasion strategy pretty much revolved around surprise: taking out the centre of Galactic government and disabling interstellar travel in a single surprise attack.

Was it a powerful ship? Without a doubt.
Was it invincible without special circumstances? By no means, or else it would just have flown to the Citadel on its own, whisked all the warships aside like a swarm of gnats, and then re-established contact with the station. Instead, it relied on the element of surprise, depended on the fact that the station was closed off to the surrounding fleet, kept the defenders busy with the aid of the geth and needed an inside man to sufficiently sabotage the defenses.

Given the fact that as stated above if Sovereign hadn't been plugged into Saren and that IS what really killed it.
Because even with the Alliance reinforcements the Citadel fleet chances are Sovereign would have won. 

It stands to reason that the galaxy could tackle the reapers quite differently once they are prepared for them, and that technological innovation (you know, like the Thanix cannon) would provide you with sufficient means to pull through. Perhaps not easily, and certainly not without losses. But it was only in the third game that the Reapers could basically just waltz through the entire galaxy unchallenged, without either disabling the relay network nor exterminating galaxy-wide communication lines and centres of government first.
Heck, even ME3 still labors to establish that pretty much all the Citadel races are bumbling idiots who ignore the threat up until it appears on their very doorstep, and even then fail to pull themselves together.
The epilogue of ME1 painted a very different picture, with a galaxy that was now alerted to the threat and would work to prepare for the inevitable attack. It was only with ME2 that the creative team gradually started to write itself into a corner by making the galaxy deny and ignore the imminent danger.

First off the Thanix cannons don't have anywhere the near the same kind of firepower that the one Harbinger has. The Thanix cannons are also a NEW weapons systems and chances are that that aren't enough factories to build them or places to install them on the ships. Also that if you save the Council the Alliance lost 1/3 of it's fleet strength and that the Reapers' wipe out that much if you don't save the Council. 

Also you seem to think that every Reaper in the galaxy is in orbit on Earth, even before the EC I felt that they were not. Lets suppose for the sake of argument the fleet won that battle but at the cost of 50% of the fleet, do you think they could survive another battle with more Reapers that are for the lack of a better word: fresh?

In other words no matter how you slice it, the Crucible was the only weapon, because conventional victory would NOT have worked, or in others there is no way to win the war with the Reapers conventional means.  

[sth128]

Our studies of past pages led us to believe that BSN is cyclical. Many patterns repeat. The same quests of resolution, the same memes of absolution. The same conflicts are argued in every thread, but in a different manner.

The speculation is too prevalent to be merely chance. I believe the posters are only servants to this pattern. They are not its master...

Modifié par sth128, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:20 .

[Blueprotoss]

 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

hostaman wrote...

Sounds like you wanted shep to ride off into the sunset with the LI on your arm!

You've missed the point of ME. It's all about making dificult decisions. Do you save Ashley of Kaiden, The Quarians or the Geth? And when it came to the end do you sacrifice yourself to save the galxay or attempt to go out all guns blazing?

There are plenty of "F*** yeah" testosterone filled shooter games out there, but ME dares to be different. Maybe it's not the game for you.

I for one didn't feel too euphoric at the end of ME2 as I lost two of my squad and the entire crew of the Normandy (I waited too long), hardly a victory.  But I still enjoyed the game becuase hey, life is full of choices.

Try Super Mario - He always gets the princess [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Woohoo, another straw man ablaze!

Yet you're the one using a straw-mann and its done without reason. 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Ah yes, the irrational sentiment of wanting a trilogy of RPGs about resisting the Reapers not ending with going along with Reaper plans. Because the laws of nature and fiction clearly dictate such a course. And the refreshment value alone is immense.

As for the condescension, save it for the easily impressed. I think I've read three novels too.

It sounds like you haven't played that many RPGs based on endings and it also sounds like you don't follow that much sci-fi whether its a novel, comic, movie, tv show, or video game. 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Personally I find the poster's patronizing attitude about "gamers" not being "ready" for the profound experience of ME3 so misguided that I cannot take him seriously at all.

Yet you're 
patronizing about "gamers" not being "ready" for, which is pretty ironic.

SpamBot2000 wrote... 

And BW attempting to do something "different"? Anyone believing this really needs a crash course in popular culture.

Yet it doesn't matter if current  pop culture is used especially in a sci-fi story thats set thousands of years in the future. 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Ah, but you did say "gamers" were "not ready" for the ME3 ending. Which would seem to imply there is a process of readying oneself to appreciate such fine things, and unlike yourself, the "gamers" hadn't completed this process. A failure to mature on their part, which you from the vantage point of your more advanced state deign to understand.

Feel free to frame your feedback to BioWare in such constructive terms as you deem appropriate, but don't expect the "gamers" to react with perfect deference to your dilletante slumming in the "low arts".

Insulting people won't help you just like you're making acguisations ot of thin air.   

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:30 .

[Andrew_S]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Shepard's survival in Destroy is undetermined by anything other than the player's headcanon.

People love saying headcanon, but what about common sense? Take the destroy ending. Shep is determined to blow the Reapers to hell. He/she knows they are on the verge of death and just goes for it (more dramatic than sniping the tube from across the room).  Without the bonus scene, that is it. A defient and badass end to our hero. That is the closure.

Enter the bonus scene, showing Shep still drawing breath. There is NO reason for Bioware to undermine that previous "death" by giving us a "last breath", it would ruin what just came before. I don't care what they spew on twitter or whatever, their stance is that other than what we see it is up to us to determine what happens next, so they only said that dumb "last breath" so they wouldnt take a stance on what they said is up to us and make something canon that would offend some group.  But people want to run with that since they are hating ME3 and Bioware.

If someone wants Shep to be dead after even that, go for it. But that is not the flow of the scene(s). The headcanon is imaging Shep as dead. Shep being alive is what is implied and how it flows...






IMHO

[BatmanPWNS]

That would be too video gamey, not enough art and we wouldn't be able to SPECULATE!

[Ozida]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

You stopped the cycle.

It's not their fault that's not enough for you.

Ok, let me ask you this: what was the point of the game? To "stop the cycle" or to have fun? While I did the first one, I certainly had a lack of a second one.

Once again, I do not see ME3 as my personal task to fulfill the destiny and stop the Reapers at any cost, even if it requires my money and time... I see it as a bloody game to entertain me after a bloody work day. So if it fails to do that, then, yes, it is "their" problem they couldn't satisfy at least one customer. And I am usually easy to please considering some of the games I've played.