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[Taboo]

Freud argued that people would be Bisexual if societal influences were not there.

I disagree. I think it very much has to do with the way you put together. You either are or you aren't. You're born that way.

I did not choose to be Heterosexual. I just was. And I've always known it.

It's apparently the same for Homosexuals and Bisexuals.

I don't see what the issue is. People are who they are.

And they are ALL equal and deserve equal treatment under the law.

[incinerator950]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freud argued that people would be Bisexual if societal influences were not there.

I disagree. I think it very much has to do with the way you put together. You either are or you aren't. You're born that way.

I did not choose to be Heterosexual. I just was. And I've always known it.

It's apparently the same for Homosexuals and Bisexuals.

I don't see what the issue is. People are who they are.

And they are ALL equal and deserve equal treatment under the law.

Indeed. 

[incinerator950]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Freud argued that people would be Bisexual if societal influences were not there.

I disagree. I think it very much has to do with the way you put together. You either are or you aren't. You're born that way.

I did not choose to be Heterosexual. I just was. And I've always known it.

It's apparently the same for Homosexuals and Bisexuals.

I don't see what the issue is. People are who they are.

And they are ALL equal and deserve equal treatment under the law.

D*mnit, man, are you still copy-pasting that? I swear I've seen you post something like this before.

A lot of Taboo's posts are almost identical copies of his old ones.

Like all the "**** YEAH ART" ones.

Or how 60% of his posts are about David Bowie songs.

[Taboo]

No I'm not. Very few things just truly upset me. Being ignorant about things as basic as sexuality is one of them. It's absolutely abhorrent that culture treats the LGBT community this way.

[ShepnTali]

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

[incinerator950]

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

Completely true. 

[Taboo]

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

[Zaire Taylor]

I find it a bit odd since Kaidan is into men now all of a sudden, but I'm fine with it. And Cortez is a really good character. Plus, why let female Shepards choose their sexuality while men had to be straight?

[incinerator950]

Taboo-XX wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

%20http://j.wigflip.com/VmSXCwrt/roflbot.jpg%20

I call Ace Ventura to stand by with his testimony.  

[en2ym3]

 There's...been same-sex romance before..  Liara, technically, is female - asari are mono-gendered, not asexual.

And wasn't Kelly Chambers available to women as well as men?  Why would they be surprised it's existent in the third one, when it was in the first and I think second one?

Or are we talking about male same-sex romance, in particular?  Because I admittedly can't recall if there was one possible before 3.

In any case, I've seen one thread that had a negative comment about Steve, and that got a lot of criticism/backlash for it, so I'd say most find it acceptable or good.  My problem with characters in ME3 is how characters are handled in ME3, it seems Bioware mostly or entirely managed anything offensive involving homosexual characters throughout the series, so I've got no complaints there.

[thehomeworld]

Mshep and Kaiden both got retconned.

Mshep while I do understand why they needed to do it he had a freakin' press release stating he was straight in this case  BW should've just kept him straight and then allowed him to hook up gay crewmen or something. BW while they've made bi heros in the past seemed like they really wanted to go a different way hence they deliberately made mshep straight (hence the press release) but kept fshep bi for their fan base who enjoyed bi heros. The best way they should've done it instead of retconning 1/2 heros was to just wait for the next ME title and just start both male and female hero's as s/s potentials that way it would be consistent all the way through if its another series.

In the case of Kaiden its now set a horrible presidence that means BW can retcon all character's sexualities regardless of the games before it like Cortez in the next ME game will come up as straight or bi suddenly because he's now hero-sexual. That's not a good thing.

Other then that Trayner, Steve were done fine and believable Cortez was believable but his husband's whole anchor line was the lamest dialogue ever delivered in gaming history and gives Cortez negative points by association.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 01 août 2012 - 06:27 .

[en2ym3]

SilentNukee wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Some people were annoyed that Kaiden became bisexual all of a sudden. And some complained about Cortez not being able to do his job because he was gay (I have no idea why).

While the Kaidan thing may be a valid complaint, that Cortez comment makes it obvious that a few of them are just homophobic trolls

1. Kaidan never mentioned his preference, or sexuality in any way in the ME trilogy. Neither did any of the other characters except Jack, if you read between the lines anyway. So, he didn't "just become gay". Yes, he had a fling with a girl in the past... I'm sure a lot of bisexual people did as well. Not that it matters, because if you're playing a hetero Shep then you just don't see any of this in your game so it shouldn't affect you in any way.

The Cortez thing... That's just idioting homophobic haters, or trolls. :/

Actually, I didn't have a big issue with this, but I did a bit.  They did it in 2, as well, where they ret conned it so that Tali, in reality, had this big crush on you in 1 - there's absolutely no hint of this, and Bioware didn't even realize that people would want to romance Tali, originally (if I'm recalling correctly).  

It's slightly awkward and out of no where, but it's still somewhat believable, so it really doesn't deserve too much complaint (unless there's another reason it's a problem, I suppose).  

[incinerator950]

en2ym3 wrote...

 There's...been same-sex romance before..  Liara, technically, is female - asari are mono-gendered, not asexual.

And wasn't Kelly Chambers available to women as well as men?  Why would they be surprised it's existent in the third one, when it was in the first and I think second one?

Or are we talking about male same-sex romance, in particular?  Because I admittedly can't recall if there was one possible before 3.

In any case, I've seen one thread that had a negative comment about Steve, and that got a lot of criticism/backlash for it, so I'd say most find it acceptable or good.  My problem with characters in ME3 is how characters are handled in ME3, it seems Bioware mostly or entirely managed anything offensive involving homosexual characters throughout the series, so I've got no complaints there.

Liara is a completely different species, who reproduce with just about anything sapient.  Its why Asexual is almost correct, because they can mate with anything male, female, their own race.  I'm honestly surprised they can't mate with themselves. 

Kelly was and wasn't available.  You couldn't do anything outside of a private dance, and her dialogue was almost copypasta for both genders.  Now in ME3, I think she may have been moved to Hetero only, but no one actually talks about her, and I'm not about to make a female character to find out for people about one of things I think is redundant.

I've seen a lot of topics on another forum about the amazement of Cortez being gay.  Most of them surprise, or negative.  My problem with characters in ME3 is that they're either convoluted, forced, or just over-top stereo-typical.  The Steeeeve shout at the end of the game does feel out of place.  Mainly that its almost more forced then Legion dying for the Geth consensus. 

I don't want to bring up the Liara/Kaidan thing anymore, because that would be literally beating the topic with the dead horse.  

[Sherbet Lemon]

EntropicAngel wrote...


The issue is that the characters aren't defined. They're a "gray area," purely for the satisfaction of the player. Fan-service, if you will.

I just wanted to highlight this quote because it's something that I see time and time again in these threads and it continues to irk me incessantly.   Offering people a varied amount of choice isn't wrong because sexuality doesn't make up someone's character in the totality.  I talk a lot about the social construction of gender and gender performativity but I also know that to some sexuality and gender are both incredibly important if the essentialness of it is often challenged, dehumanized, and marginalized (i.e gay, lesbian, bi, gender queer and transgendered folks) within the confines of heteronormativity.  But sexuality and gender are not all we are.  They don't define a person.  They are one part of a persona and personas are complex.  When describing characters like Miranda or Liara or Fenris and Isabela, there characterization goes beyond just their sexuality.  What would be the point in having dialogue?  Conversation?  Rivalry or Friendship?  There are things to learn that discuss more that just which Shepard or Hawke they'll sleep with. 

There's nothing wrong with living in the gray.  I live in the gray.  Many live in the gray because sexuality and gender for some is fluid and complex. Placing people in rigid categories doesn't make for strong writing.  It makes for weak writing.  In the gray there is messiness and complications and uniqueness.   Mass Effect didn't have enough gray in my opinion, but that is neither here nor there.

[o Ventus]

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

Yeah. Those people are wrong, possibly stupid.

[incinerator950]

Village Idiot wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...


The issue is that the characters aren't defined. They're a "gray area," purely for the satisfaction of the player. Fan-service, if you will.

I just wanted to highlight this quote because it's something that I see time and time again in these threads and it continues to irk me incessantly.   Offering people a varied amount of choice isn't wrong because sexuality doesn't make up someone's character in the totality.  I talk a lot about the social construction of gender and gender performativity but I also know that to some sexuality and gender are both incredibly important if the essentialness of it is often challenged, dehumanized, and marginalized (i.e gay, lesbian, bi, gender queer and transgendered folks) within the confines of heteronormativity.  But sexuality and gender are not all we are.  They don't define a person.  They are one part of a persona and personas are complex.  When describing characters like Miranda or Liara or Fenris and Isabela, there characterization goes beyond just their sexuality.  What would be the point in having dialogue?  Conversation?  Rivalry or Friendship?  There are things to learn that discuss more that just which Shepard or Hawke they'll sleep with. 

There's nothing wrong with living in the gray.  I live in the gray.  Many live in the gray because sexuality and gender for some is fluid and complex. Placing people in rigid categories doesn't make for strong writing.  It makes for weak writing.  In the gray there is messiness and complications and uniqueness.   Mass Effect didn't have enough gray in my opinion, but that is neither here nor there.

Except the Grey in ME has never lead to better writing.  It led to more convoluted story archs and a middle sequel that didn't bridge the intro and end together until a DLC appeared.  The character writing was almost pathetic in DA2, with the game being rushed and every character magically bi.  Its almost more insulting than forced drama, or Drew's over-cliche story archs with Good Protaganists and Evil villains.  Hell, looking back, Sovereign is a bit of a dissapointment.  The Character writing in BG2 blows DAO and DA2 out of the water, and I haven't even touched the game.  I loved Veronica in FONV despite her being a naive Idealist and a Lesbian. 

If anything, the over-abundance of choices is almost a detremental factor.  They made a poster-boy, but tried to include several options for everyone.  The Illusion is a pale substitute that despite having several variations of the same character, you only have two Caucasian VAs.  Then, the Female is almost always a copy and paste of the male.  Less than 40% of the Female Shepards dialogue is unique.  In ME2, it got worse with the VS being exactly the same.  The entire focus of the story was on the characters, never mind the option to debunk them, or remove them after finding them.  It was even more painful for several players, because the majority of the ME2 romances were shoehorned when importing to ME3.  Tali and Garrus repeatedly showing up was a Fan Service.  Traynor and Cortez being Same sex, almost hamstrung out of it, was a fan service to a vocal minority. 

For a game that offered such a wide variety of options, it had such limited control.  Sadly, and I'm going to be alone in this topic, the game would have been better without so many trivial choices and instead focused on being a relevant, coordinated and connected plot with the default, male Sheploo and fewer Romances.  Focusing on improving the actual point of the character and the Story Arch while maintaining some semblence of good combat, with a successful mid game and a thought out ending. 

Also, Hale is a better VA than Meer.  There I said it, its just sad that her Shepard VA work is the worst she's done, and in ME Meer did a better job than she did on many levels.  Now that this is all in the open:



Goodnight

[The Twilight God]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You know what's odd? I didn't get the come-on by Kaidan. I don't know if I did something wrong, but I played a maleshep and Kaidan never mentioned romance.

I believe if you are in a romance it shuts everyone else down. Like if you spoke to Liara first and sealed the deal with a kiss then Kaidan/Ashley don't bring it up. I romanced Tali and that part with Kaidan occurs before you go to the Migrant Fleet so he came on to me. I hate how any time apart equals no romance over until you meet up again. My penis is not in range of your vagina so we're not together anymore. classic Bioware take of relations.

[The Twilight God]

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

Liara has a "penis" and a "vagina". Together they make up the azure. True story.

[shepdog77]

The Twilight God wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

Liara has a "penis" and a "vagina". Together they make up the azure. True story.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[DevilBeast]

incinerator950 wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

There's speculation that Miranda's really a dude...

Completely true. 

Hmmm....

[shepdog77]

LMFAO^^^^

[Abraham_uk]

I'd rather have Minsc and Boo than S/S romance.

Comaraderie, adventure and steel on steel. The stuff of Legend, Right Boo?
Squeaky wheel gets the kick.


During S/S routine.

Minsc: Magic is impressive, but Minsc leads, swords for everyone
Partner: What?
Minsc: We must prepare for battle!
Partner: I don't do that sort of thing. But I have a whip.
Minsc: Do you know how to use one?
Partner: Yes. Of course (in a sultry voice)
Minsc: Good. Boo, we are going on an epic adventure.
Boo: Squeak.
Partner: Eeecch. A rat! Ahhh!
Minsc: How dare you confuse my hamster with a rat! Prepare to die! Go for the eyes Boo, go for the eyes!
Partner:

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 01 août 2012 - 02:32 .