490 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

HagarIshay wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
Kaiden isn't bi-sexual, he's shepard-sexual.

What? 

Shepard's love boat. 


Err. Ship. Boat, whatever. Ship, yeah. 

Modifié par spirosz, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:22 .

[Isichar]

Nonoru wrote...

As long as established characters don't change their preference across the games i don't care.
Also the everyone is bisexual is unreal but i don't mind that much to emit a complaint.
DA2 was a failure in that department

It does not bother me that they choose to make the characters that (which admittedly is a bit unrealistic) way but...

Archengeia said something that summed it up pretty well that I agree with. It all felt incredibly lazy, its not as if the dialogue was done any differently, it remains the exact same whether you are male or female ingame. If they are going to make every character bisexual at least make them all unique.

Modifié par Isichar, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:25 .

[The Angry One]

RavenEyry wrote...

Wow a lot of attempts to fit our gender constructs onto the asari here!
The way I see it, femshep and Liara is a lesbian relationship from a human persective and not from an asari perspective.

"gender constructs" that the Asari have been dealing with for thousands of years with regards to other species.
They are fully aware of such things and the meaning of same-sex relationships. It is just irrelevant to them.

[Ozzy]

It's not my cup of tea but I didn't mind. It's there for who wants it and doesn't detract from the gaming experience.

[NRieh]

Was there any difference in reactions between the F/F options and the M/M options?

Yes, and already mentioned..none of previous M/F options were ever opened to F/F... And some boys were soo eager to make Ashley\\Fshep or better Miranda\\Fshep couple, that they could never forgive Kaidan change... (straight female Kaidan lover here - just in case you wonder).

why they didn't "convert" Ash to lesbian as well then?

*deep breath* Because. Kaidan Alenko. And. Ashley Williams. Are. Two. DIFFERENT. Characters.

If you belive they are not - BW tricked you, congratz.

But you could ask as well - why Kaidan never ever quoted Tennyson.

Modifié par Nrieh, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:27 .

[RavenEyry]

The Angry One wrote...

"gender constructs" that the Asari have been dealing with for thousands of years with regards to other species.
They are fully aware of such things and the meaning of same-sex relationships. It is just irrelevant to them.

I know they are fully aware of what gender is, my point is that they don't see 'straight' or 'gay' relationships, they just see relationships.

[spirosz]

Well, I also think Kaidan's fanbase were more insistent on having Kaidan be an option, compared to Ashley's fanbase. At least, that's how I've seen in before the arrival of ME3. Like Tali's role in ME3, I think a lot of the choices were based off how loud the fanbases were.

[The Angry One]

RavenEyry wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"gender constructs" that the Asari have been dealing with for thousands of years with regards to other species.
They are fully aware of such things and the meaning of same-sex relationships. It is just irrelevant to them.

I know they are fully aware of what gender is, my point is that they don't see 'straight' or 'gay' relationships, they just see relationships.

Sure, but that's a cultural thing, and a view I share myself.
This doesn't change that biologically it's the same gender, and hence s/s. The only factor here is whether it matters and in that sense no it doesn't matter to Liara. But then, it doesn't matter to my Shepards.

Now of course the ability to procreate with either gender blurs things even further, but there is still a biological distinction there.

[David7204]

Kaidan wasn't 'out of the blue.' There was pretty heavy subtext between him and Shepard, wasn't there? On Horizon, he says that having Shepard gone "felt like losing an arm."

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Kaidan wasn't 'out of the blue.' There was pretty heavy subtext between him and Shepard, wasn't there? On Horizon, he says that having Shepard gone "felt like losing an arm."

You can interpret that in many ways, like Jack's "Girl's Club" comment.

Modifié par spirosz, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:33 .

[RavenEyry]

The Angry One wrote...

Sure, but that's a cultural thing, and a view I share myself.
This doesn't change that biologically it's the same gender, and hence s/s. The only factor here is whether it matters and in that sense no it doesn't matter to Liara. But then, it doesn't matter to my Shepards.

Now of course the ability to procreate with either gender blurs things even further, but there is still a biological distinction there.

Oh yeah, asari are biologically female. I'm amazed people even try to debate that.

[David7204]

I haven't played as a female Shepard in ME 2 or 3. What's Jack's 'girl club' comment?

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

I haven't played as a female Shepard in ME 2 or 3. What's Jack's 'girl club' comment?

 

Yet, she's admitted to being open to it, with her past comments about playing around. So it's really up to you and how you want to take that comment in, as with Kaidan and his "losing a limb."

Modifié par spirosz, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:37 .

[RavenEyry]

Jack's an interesting one. Fits pretty much every stereotype of a lesbian but isn't.

[David7204]

That seems pretty cut and dry to me. Jack's just telling her she's not interested.

[Ozzy]

David7204 wrote...

I haven't played as a female Shepard in ME 2 or 3. What's Jack's 'girl club' comment?

If you keep talking to her in ME2 with a Femshep she assumes that you want to make some girl on girl love. It's basically just reflective of the restricted squadmate relations in ME2, in that you won't to fully help unless you get them in the sack. 

[spirosz]

RavenEyry wrote...

Jack's an interesting one. Fits pretty much every stereotype of a lesbian but isn't.

Yep, I agree. Kudos on Bioware, but I wouldn't of minded seeing her as a option for FemShep's out there, who do want her as an option. I guess not "loud" enough again? Oh well. 

[The_Shootist]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Only idiots and trolls are against same sex relationships.

My, aren't you the Enlightened One? Omama was opposed until last month. Idiots and trolls must be the only people to have lived for the last 2000 years of Western Civilization. Do you really believe that?

In two ME games out of three, such things were forbidden. But, somehow, enlightenment came to the developers only in the last game of the series? Or was it fear of the response of people with bigoted thoughts like yours, that changed their minds?

I ate at Chic-fil-A Saturday and I'm going there for lunch today. Not because I'm opposed to what adults do, or don't do, in the privacy of their bedrooms, I'm not, but because someone has to stand up to the bigotry of the Thought Police.

Modifié par The_Shootist, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:45 .

[krukow]

But you could ask as well - why Kaidan never ever quoted Tennyson.

I've... I've never thought of that before!  Thanks, I'm totally stealing that!

And yeah, they didn't change Ashely's character, so I could really care less.  Steve and Traynor are pretty cool characters too (well, once traynor starts brushing her teeth again at least), so I think they were fine additions to the cast.  PLUS: Ashley anger orgasm!

[The Angry One]

I'd argue that turning Ashley from a no-nonsense marine into a supermodel who prances around the battlefield in high heels is more of a change than making her bisexual ever could be but hey what do I know.

[krukow]

The Angry One wrote...

I'd argue that turning Ashley from a no-nonsense marine into a supermodel who prances around the battlefield in high heels is more of a change than making her bisexual ever could be but hey what do I know.

...I have no comeback to that.  Though at least in gameplay she's still badass.  Give her a revenant/black widow and she just destroys.

Modifié par krukow, 31 juillet 2012 - 03:46 .

[David7204]

I thought Ashley looked much better in ME 3.

[wizardryforever]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Personally I think the whole concept of having no gender is kinda ruined if that species identifies more with a particular gender in other species.  It's mixed messages.

And Aethyta was referring to another asari when talking up Benezia's rack, so that doesn't really count.  We know that the find one another attractive (asari in general, I mean), because if they didn't, their species would have died out a long time ago.  Prior to ME3, most of the asari relationships that we see are with male aliens (or male humans), then they show two asari with female human relationships to balance it out in ME3.  Like I said, it's not just bisexuality, because bisexual people still identify themselves as a gender and often favor one gender as a partner.  The asari don't care at all about their partner's gender, because they themselves don't have a gender.  It's all academic to them.

They do have a gender. "Monogendered" means one gender. Not no gender.

Liara isn't the final authority on this. She may just be making excuses since she's aware some species tend to display bigotry towards Asari sexuality, and hasn't been around many humans at the point she's explaining these things.

Well if that's the case, then it's something other than male or female.  And Liara is the only one who ever says anything on the matter, so while we can speculate on what she may have meant, I'm just going to take what she said at face value.  "Male and female have no real meaning for us."  This implies that they are neither male nor female, not all-female.  Like I said, it's mixed messages, since the codex describes them as all-female.

You're taking what Liara said a bit out of context. Male or female have no meaning for them when it comes to reproduction, because Asari can bond with either to conceive a child. So for them, there is literally no difference at all whether they are with a male or a female partner. Asari are still female. They make the babies and give birth to them, like any other female entity, they just don't need genetic material to do it...hence Liara's comment.

So it's still technically a traditional relationship for Maleshep (as traditional as bunking with an alien goes), a  lesbian relationship for Femshep and a bisexual relationship for Liara (cuz she's interested in either MaleShep or Femshep; doesn't matter the gender).

Asari are both male and female, because within their own species, they can be the father or the mother of the child.  People project them as female because in all of the interspecies relationships, they can only be the mother.  But despite asari claims, mating within one's own species tends to be the default state of life, so it isn't really fair to say that asari are female simply because they play the part of the mother in their interspecies relationships.  Because with their own species, they can be either/or.

Like I said, it's a one-sided lesbian relationship with Liara.  Asari are aware of gender at a conceptual level, but they don't know what it really means to be male or female.  Thus they don't see gender as an obstacle.  Kinda like how most people don't see eye-color as an obstacle.  It's just irrelevant to their attraction.

[Batnat]

I can´t really contribute to the initial question, ´cause I wasn´t around the BSN at the time.
But I´d like to throw my voice in anyway, if I may.

I´m female, I´m gay and my main FemShep romances Liara, which I clearly see as a lesbian relationship!
I was disappointed to find out that Ash and Kaidan´s S/S dialogue/scenes were cut from the first game. Imagine my happiness when I realized my main ManShep wouldn´t be alone anymore because he could finally be with the love of his life, Kaidan. I´m giddy just thinking about it and I haven´t even started that playthrough yet.
Ashley not going the bi route I can understand...not that I would have objected...but this way IMO it´s fleshed out that these two are actually two different characters. Kaidan never seemed completely straight to me for some reason (maybe wishful thinking) and considering Ash´s background and personality made her seem a little bit less open-minded. Not to mention that I really can´t stand her anymore (which I don´t see as a bad thing BTW).

Samantha and especially Steve were of course welcome additions, though I do find the Traynor romance a bit cheap at the beginning but in the end it luckily turned out to be as valuable as any other (I don´t count Diana "get the f*** out of my face" Allers as a romance option).

I´m thankful for every single S/S option that BioWare puts into their games...with the overwhelming amount of straight relationships IRL/on TV/in Games it´s really nice to roleplay a character that can have my mindset. Not that I don´t like the straight ME-couples (minus Jacob...hehehe...and Thane & Jack really should have been bi!) but it´s refreshing to see S/S relationships handled equally as good or bad alongside them.

Me peronally like the option to have a significant other in RPGs, the more the relationships get fleshed out, the better. It just completes the whole experience. And in my case it makes saving the world/galaxy/whatever a whole lot easier because I have a personal stake in it...otherwise I can all too easily slip into the "Is this world / Are these people really worth saving?" - mentality.

Could some dialogues/voice-overs (and come-ons) use improvement?...definately...I always cringe when my FemShep goes to talk to Jacob because the first words out of her mouth sound so syrupy...though her "Dismissed, Chief" to Ash in ME1 wasn´t much better either. But those little cringes I gladly endure for the overall options we get. I just wish the cheating aspects of the games would have had the promised "consequences"...but its not like that´s the biggest issue I have with ME3...nevermind.

On the really positive side, it does give my (admittedly pretty bleak) world view a much needed ray of light to notice the (as far as I have seen) pretty positive feedback from the straight gamers around here.

I only hope BioWare keeps the LIs a bit more balanced in future games.
Gays like some different flavor to their options too...