490 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenEyry]

At least you can force Ashley into armour, unlike Miranda. Can't say anything about her sudden love of makeup though.

[Ageless Face]

spirosz wrote...
Shepard's love boat. 


Err. Ship. Boat, whatever. Ship, yeah. 

Shepard has a love boat?

Kaidan is Shepard-sexual?

...

WHAT?

[wizardryforever]

The Angry One wrote...

I'd argue that turning Ashley from a no-nonsense marine into a supermodel who prances around the battlefield in high heels is more of a change than making her bisexual ever could be but hey what do I know.

Because what she's wearing totally reflects on her personality, right?  She can't possibly be the same person in hotter clothing?

Change of clothing =/= change of personality.

[kleindropper]

wizardryforever wrote...

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Personally I think the whole concept of having no gender is kinda ruined if that species identifies more with a particular gender in other species.  It's mixed messages.

And Aethyta was referring to another asari when talking up Benezia's rack, so that doesn't really count.  We know that the find one another attractive (asari in general, I mean), because if they didn't, their species would have died out a long time ago.  Prior to ME3, most of the asari relationships that we see are with male aliens (or male humans), then they show two asari with female human relationships to balance it out in ME3.  Like I said, it's not just bisexuality, because bisexual people still identify themselves as a gender and often favor one gender as a partner.  The asari don't care at all about their partner's gender, because they themselves don't have a gender.  It's all academic to them.

They do have a gender. "Monogendered" means one gender. Not no gender.

Liara isn't the final authority on this. She may just be making excuses since she's aware some species tend to display bigotry towards Asari sexuality, and hasn't been around many humans at the point she's explaining these things.

Well if that's the case, then it's something other than male or female.  And Liara is the only one who ever says anything on the matter, so while we can speculate on what she may have meant, I'm just going to take what she said at face value.  "Male and female have no real meaning for us."  This implies that they are neither male nor female, not all-female.  Like I said, it's mixed messages, since the codex describes them as all-female.

You're taking what Liara said a bit out of context. Male or female have no meaning for them when it comes to reproduction, because Asari can bond with either to conceive a child. So for them, there is literally no difference at all whether they are with a male or a female partner. Asari are still female. They make the babies and give birth to them, like any other female entity, they just don't need genetic material to do it...hence Liara's comment.

So it's still technically a traditional relationship for Maleshep (as traditional as bunking with an alien goes), a  lesbian relationship for Femshep and a bisexual relationship for Liara (cuz she's interested in either MaleShep or Femshep; doesn't matter the gender).

Asari are both male and female, because within their own species, they can be the father or the mother of the child.  People project them as female because in all of the interspecies relationships, they can only be the mother.  But despite asari claims, mating within one's own species tends to be the default state of life, so it isn't really fair to say that asari are female simply because they play the part of the mother in their interspecies relationships.  Because with their own species, they can be either/or.

Like I said, it's a one-sided lesbian relationship with Liara.  Asari are aware of gender at a conceptual level, but they don't know what it really means to be male or female.  Thus they don't see gender as an obstacle.  Kinda like how most people don't see eye-color as an obstacle.  It's just irrelevant to their attraction.

Geez, here we go.  Maybe this will help explain things:

[Dragon_Claw]

In the future everyone is bi!

Trust me on this one...

[Asharad Hett]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

Only idiots and trolls are against same sex relationships.

Meh... 

[krukow]

Dragon_Claw wrote...

In the future everyone is bi!

Trust me on this one...

No, Traynor is gay.  Trust me, I tried

[The Angry One]

wizardryforever wrote...

Because what she's wearing totally reflects on her personality, right?  She can't possibly be the same person in hotter clothing?

Change of clothing =/= change of personality.

I don't know, off the top of my head I can't remember any marines in real life who think high heels and lip botox can enhance their careers in any meaningful way. Just saying.

[Batnat]

Dragon_Claw wrote...

In the future everyone is bi!

Trust me on this one...

One can hope...

[The Angry One]

Dragon_Claw wrote...

In the future everyone is bi!

Trust me on this one...

You don't say...

[krukow]

The Angry One wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Because what she's wearing totally reflects on her personality, right?  She can't possibly be the same person in hotter clothing?

Change of clothing =/= change of personality.

I don't know, off the top of my head I can't remember any marines in real life who think high heels and lip botox can enhance their careers in any meaningful way. Just saying.

Well, she's a spectre now, so there!!

Besides, all the ME characters are over sexualized in one way or another (or in many).  It is what it is, at least she still wears armor.  Armored skirt, but armored none the less!

[krukow]

The Angry One wrote...

Dragon_Claw wrote...

In the future everyone is bi!

Trust me on this one...

You don't say...

I don't even think bi covers Captain Jack.  I'm thinking pan...

[wizardryforever]

kleindropper wrote...

Geez, here we go.  Maybe this will help explain things:

And this doesn't help at all, because of the way asari reproduction works.  Because it is a union of minds, there is no need for asari to have an organ specifically for impregnating each other.  But because they still give live birth, they need a birth canal.

But if the joining worked the way it does with humans, then asari would be true hermaphrodites, with both sets of equipment.  But that not only screws up the "can mate with anyone" thing, but would squick a lot of people out.

[wizardryforever]

The Angry One wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Because what she's wearing totally reflects on her personality, right?  She can't possibly be the same person in hotter clothing?

Change of clothing =/= change of personality.

I don't know, off the top of my head I can't remember any marines in real life who think high heels and lip botox can enhance their careers in any meaningful way. Just saying.

Well for one, ME isn't real life.  There should be some leeway given on account of this.  I'll admit that I groaned when I saw the heels, but otherwise she was subject to the same art upgrades as everyone else.  All the human squadmates and many of the aliens are sexualized anyway.  I don't see Ashley as being a particularly egregious example of that.

[The Angry One]

wizardryforever wrote...

Well for one, ME isn't real life.  There should be some leeway given on account of this.  I'll admit that I groaned when I saw the heels, but otherwise she was subject to the same art upgrades as everyone else.  All the human squadmates and many of the aliens are sexualized anyway.  I don't see Ashley as being a particularly egregious example of that.

From the ME3 CE artbook.

Ashley:
"For Ashley's reappearance in the series, we let her hair down and gave her sex appeal."

Kaidan:
"The team bulked him up to show that he's seen a lot of action and is ready to fight in the biggest war the galaxy has ever seen."

I have no problem with sexiness and glamour, but my pet peeves are it coming at the cost of obvious impracticality, and male/female double standards.
Ashley is made pretty, while Kaidan is made to look more like a soldier, solely because she's female and he's male even though she's a "mundane" soldier and he's a powerful biotic who doesn't necesarilly need bulky armour to begin with (and didn't in ME1).

[mauro2222]

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Kaidan wasn't 'out of the blue.' There was pretty heavy subtext between him and Shepard, wasn't there? On Horizon, he says that having Shepard gone "felt like losing an arm."

You can interpret that in many ways, like Jack's "Girl's Club" comment.

Oh, I headcanon the chat like this.

Kaidan: "I thought you were dead Shepard, we all did"

*extreme long hug*

Kaidan: "...is like losing a limb, like my right arm, the one I use to touch..."
Shepard: "Ok! Watch the details!"

Modifié par mauro2222, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:12 .

[krukow]

The Angry One wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Well for one, ME isn't real life.  There should be some leeway given on account of this.  I'll admit that I groaned when I saw the heels, but otherwise she was subject to the same art upgrades as everyone else.  All the human squadmates and many of the aliens are sexualized anyway.  I don't see Ashley as being a particularly egregious example of that.

From the ME3 CE artbook.

Ashley:
"For Ashley's reappearance in the series, we let her hair down and gave her sex appeal."

Kaidan:
"The team bulked him up to show that he's seen a lot of action and is ready to fight in the biggest war the galaxy has ever seen."

I have no problem with sexiness and glamour, but my pet peeves are it coming at the cost of obvious impracticality, and male/female double standards.
Ashley is made pretty, while Kaidan is made to look more like a soldier, solely because she's female and he's male even though she's a "mundane" soldier and he's a powerful biotic who doesn't necesarilly need bulky armour to begin with (and didn't in ME1).

I'm pretty sure bulking Kaidan up didn't hurt his sex appeal...

edit: in retrospect, I don't think you were insulting Ash, and I agree about how annoying the double standard is.  I liked Ash better when she met alliance regs...

Modifié par krukow, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[RavenEyry]

The worst blatant attempt at being sexy is Allers though. The only other person seen with a short dress in all of Mass Effect is femshep and that's because she needed to run around in it. Allers is blatantly designed with modern fashion in mind instead of the fashion of the period, which really bugs me.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[mauro2222]

The "mundane" thing wasn't an insult.

[The Angry One]

krukow wrote...

I'm pretty sure bulking Kaidan up didn't hurt his sex appeal...

It certainly didn't, but I don't think that's what they were aiming for.
My point in all that was they increased Ashley's sex appeal in a way that seems foreign to her character.

And by the way, that "mundane" soldier murders a krogan warlord to save Shep in ME while your "powerful" biotic sits around and writes poems or whatever he does because I don't pay attention to weiner dogs...

Never watched Babylon 5? "Mundane" in this sense refers to someone without extraordinairy abilities, telepathic in that case, biotic in this. A Harry Potter fan would term such a person a "muggle".

[krukow]

Yeah, I edited my post.

[Ieldra]

I like Samantha and Steve. They're well-written characters who come across as real. Their sexual orientation doesn't matter that much unless you want it to matter.

I just wish a similar effort in character writing had been made for Miranda.

[kleindropper]

wizardryforever wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Geez, here we go.  Maybe this will help explain things:

And this doesn't help at all, because of the way asari reproduction works.  Because it is a union of minds, there is no need for asari to have an organ specifically for impregnating each other.  But because they still give live birth, they need a birth canal.

But if the joining worked the way it does with humans, then asari would be true hermaphrodites, with both sets of equipment.  But that not only screws up the "can mate with anyone" thing, but would squick a lot of people out.

I'm assuming that Asari give birth and have a uterus and "vajajay" as Oprah calls it.  They obviously have breasts that produce milk for their young.  Asari produce the egg from which their offspring grow.

Based on their consistent diminuitive and womanly shape, they also seem to lack the Asari equivelent of testosterone, and the lack of a "package" in their tight fitting armor indicates there's nothing sticking out  in the swimsuit area.  These all point to Asari being 100% female by definition.  There is nothing pointing to them having any male characteristics; sexual preference does not in any way define gender.

[DRTJR]

I think that STEEEEVE! and Tranoy's romance is poorly implemented.

[wizardryforever]

I don't really think that it was a double standard to bulk up Kaidan while slimming down Ashley.  If you want to get picky about it, neither one could be considered "in character."  The purpose of both was to increase their sex appeal.  Men find different things sexy than women, that's why they were treated differently.  I really don't think it's fair to decry Ashley's look but to ignore that Kaidan has become more stereotypically masculine in appearance.  A significant portion (perhaps even the majority) of straight women find masculinity attractive in a man.  The reverse is true for men.  Not seeing the double standard.