490 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

RavenEyry wrote...

I've made a small poll about Ashley's appearance now since it's become a hot topic.
http://social.biowar...03/polls/37623/

Amazon? But I don't want to encourage self-mutilation.

[krukow]

iamweaver wrote...

Exactly.  Though somehow I hadn't consciously noticed how the armor was constructed to accent her attractiveness (specitifclly, the shot someone above included of the view from behind the NPC).  My MaleSHep romanced her, probably becasue I like prickly, strong-willed women who like 18th C literature.

Your male shep has good taste and I feel my maleshep would get along with him.  They should have a playdate in the park sometime.

[Mr.House]

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

How was it established that Kaidan was only into women? I talk with my girl friends(friends that are girls, not romances) about women and my straight friends but my gay friends? I talk about men You can not assume right away.

[Lopez23]

I never plan having a gay character cuz im always a maleshep and can never romance anyone other than liara but i dont mind s/s romances if someone enjoys it and likes that sort of thing then im all for it for them....my male shep was mad tight with cortez i liked him he was a great character with a good story and was generally a chill guy....im glad bioware didnt go with the whole "im gay im gay im gay" thing with steve or traynor just talking bout oh yea im gay/lesbian hi and stuff, they made two great characters who happend to also be gay".
 
i think the main arguments from people against the s/s romances were that they didnt want characters to all of a sudden become bi or whatever, didnt want their shepards getting hit on by the s/s romances and ninjamanced which i think can be decent arguments in a way, the whole characters becoming bi thing isnt really a big issue because gay kaidan really just goes for the single sheps with no romances or newgame me3 sheps and you can easily put him down if he makes an advance because i heard one complaint about DA2 with that mage who hits on ur male and u either am like yea i like u too or a complete **** to him but i think they did good to avoid the ninja manceing

and my male shep was never hit on by steve in any of my playthorughs so it kinda throws that out the window even when at purgatory when u say what about me hes like sorry shep but ur taken and stuff so i think they did good with balancing out the concerns and giving gay sheps what theyve been waiting for for the past few years

Modifié par Lopez23, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:01 .

[Baronesa]

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

you need to look back even further:

KOTOR: Juhani, first confirmed lesbian jedi

"Juhani is the first female character written for the Star Wars
universe that is a lesbian. An error in the first release of the video
game allowed player-characters of both male and female genders to access
the Juhani romance sub-plot, leading some people to believe that Juhani
was bisexual, but the error has since been corrected and the romance
sub-plot restricted to female player-characters." - From Wookiepedia.

Jade Empire: Sky and Silk Fox

flanny wrote...
I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

That is not changed, it is expanded... I have dated girls who only had boyfriends before... was dating me a retcon of their life?

[Fiery Phoenix]

flanny wrote...

I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

You are misusing the word 'established'. Consider revising.

[iamweaver]

krukow wrote...

iamweaver wrote...

Exactly.  Though somehow I hadn't consciously noticed how the armor was constructed to accent her attractiveness (specitifclly, the shot someone above included of the view from behind the NPC).  My MaleSHep romanced her, probably becasue I like prickly, strong-willed women who like 18th C literature.

Your male shep has good taste and I feel my maleshep would get along with him.  They should have a playdate in the park sometime.

Hah!  Though given the general prickliness of the forums, I'm surprised someone didn't call me on this, and point out that Tennyson is 19th C.  It really was a typo, I swear.  Not that I have anything against Pope or Cowper.

[iamweaver]

Lopez23 wrote...

I never plan having a gay character cuz im always a maleshep and can never romance anyone other than liara but i dont mind s/s romances if someone enjoys it and likes that sort of thing then im all for it for them....my male shep was mad tight with cortez i liked him he was a great character with a good story and was generally a chill guy....im glad bioware didnt go with the whole "im gay im gay im gay" thing with steve or traynor just talking bout oh yea im gay/lesbian hi and stuff, they made two great characters who happend to also be gay". i think the main arguments from people against the s/s romances were that they didnt want characters to all of a sudden become bi or whatever, didnt want their shepards getting hit on by the s/s romances and ninjamanced which i think can be decent arguments in a way, the whole characters becoming bi thing isnt really a big issue because gay kaidan really just goes for the single sheps with no romances or newgame me3 sheps and you can easily put him down if he makes an advance because i heard one complaint about DA2 with that mage who hits on ur male and u either am like yea i like u too or a complete **** to him but i think they didnt good to avoid the ninja manceing and my male shep was never hit on by steve in any of my playthorughs so it kinda throws that out the window even when at purgatory when u say what about me hes like sorry shep but ur taken and stuff so i think they did good with balancing out the concerns and giving gay sheps what theyve been waiting for for the past few years

Let me add to this (and note to Lopez23 - It's very difficult to read a post without paragraphs), that I also liked the closeness of Steve and Vega.  Not that I would necessarily expect anything else, but it was good to see that Cortez wasn't treated as the "token gay male character".

In fact, in some ways, this is even more important than the S/S relationships themselves.

Modifié par iamweaver, 31 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[flanny]

Mr.House wrote...

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

How was it established that Kaidan was only into women? I talk with my girl friends(friends that are girls, not romances) about women and my straight friends but my gay friends? I talk about men You can not assume right away.

He talks about when he was at biotics school he fell in love with a girl, he cared for her so much he couldn't sand the thought of the turian trainer hurting her so he killed the trainer.

He also talks to about Liara and Ashley and even admits liking Ashley.

again as I said I think the introduction of gay characters is a good thing, I just thing it would be better to introduce new gay character rather then re-write old ones 

[bleetman]

You know, I once had feelings for a girl.

Clearly I can never deviate from my rigidly established heterosexuality.

[Batnat]

Flog61 wrote...

Thank-you very, very much for all the time you put into this.

If I may, could i take some of your content or quote you in my main essay which i am writing on S/S relationshipis in ME which i will post soon?

You´re very welcome. Sure, go right ahead.
I´m really looking forward to reading your essay!

[krukow]

Baronesa wrote...

[

flanny wrote...
I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

That is not changed, it is expanded... I have dated girls who only had boyfriends before... was dating me a retcon of their life?

I feel this is a much better explanation for Kaidan's newfound sexuality.  He was straight in ME1.  You couldn't romance him as a guy.  This was established.  He's just grown and changed as a character, and now he has these new feelings.  I find that a far better explanation than "his sexuality wasn't established.  Nu-uh!"  He didn't like guys in ME1.  He does now.  It does happen from time to time.  Though I would have found it a lot less plausible in Ash than Kaidan. 

And I played KOTR for like 10 years before I found out Juhani was gay.  Guess that's what I get for always playing as a guy...

[Mr.House]

flanny wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

How was it established that Kaidan was only into women? I talk with my girl friends(friends that are girls, not romances) about women and my straight friends but my gay friends? I talk about men You can not assume right away.

He talks about when he was at biotics school he fell in love with a girl, he cared for her so much he couldn't sand the thought of the turian trainer hurting her so he killed the trainer.

He also talks to about Liara and Ashley and even admits liking Ashley.

again as I said I think the introduction of gay characters is a good thing, I just thing it would be better to introduce new gay character rather then re-write old ones 

Ok so he's into women, show me in ME where he is not into men sexualy.

[iamweaver]

Flanny, sexual preference is on a sliding scale. It's possible for even a strongly hetero person to feel some level of attraction to a few people of the same sex. Admittedly, it seems that the number of clearly bisexual males is a very small percentage of the population; but I'm not sure that isn't just a result of our culture's traditionally homophobic nature.

[Ageless Face]

flanny wrote...
He talks about when he was at biotics school he fell in love with a girl, he cared for her so much he couldn't sand the thought of the turian trainer hurting her so he killed the trainer.

He also talks to about Liara and Ashley and even admits liking Ashley.

again as I said I think the introduction of gay characters is a good thing, I just thing it would be better to introduce new gay character rather then re-write old ones 

Kaidan is bi, not gay. He can talk with Shepard about women but also like men.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:01 .

[Mr.House]

krukow wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

[

flanny wrote...
I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

That is not changed, it is expanded... I have dated girls who only had boyfriends before... was dating me a retcon of their life?

I feel this is a much better explanation for Kaidan's newfound sexuality.  He was straight in ME1.  You couldn't romance him as a guy.  This was established.  He's just grown and changed as a character, and now he has these new feelings.  I find that a far better explanation than "his sexuality wasn't established.  Nu-uh!"  He didn't like guys in ME1.  He does now.  It does happen from time to time.  Though I would have found it a lot less plausible in Ash than Kaidan. 

And I played KOTR for like 10 years before I found out Juhani was gay.  Guess that's what I get for always playing as a guy...

How do you know he did not like guys in ME? Maleshep was never allowed to flirt with him because Bioware cut his gay romance. I bet you if maleshep was able to flirt with Kaidan back in ME Kaidan would be all over that in a second.

[SpamBot2000]

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure a male character could marry Bertrand the Pirate in Temple of Elemental Evil, a D & D game released in 2002 or so. So BioWare are just catching up.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:04 .

[The Angry One]

Sigh it's the old Anders argument again.

"Anders can't be bi! He talked about girls in Awakening!"

Everyone who argues so much about real life should know that real people are complex and have different desires at different times. They change their minds. Or maybe they don't give details about every little thing that's ever happened to them.

[wizardryforever]

flanny wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

How was it established that Kaidan was only into women? I talk with my girl friends(friends that are girls, not romances) about women and my straight friends but my gay friends? I talk about men You can not assume right away.

He talks about when he was at biotics school he fell in love with a girl, he cared for her so much he couldn't sand the thought of the turian trainer hurting her so he killed the trainer.

He also talks to about Liara and Ashley and even admits liking Ashley.

again as I said I think the introduction of gay characters is a good thing, I just thing it would be better to introduce new gay character rather then re-write old ones 

Yeah, what a lot of the naysayers don't understand is that Kaidan could have just realized that he was into men too.  It's like these people don't understand what bisexuality really is.  Or it could even be that he isn't into men in general, but is willing to go that way with Shepard.  He could just be "Shepard-sexual." 

He could even be like me.  I'm bi, but prefer women to men.  I essentially only pursue women, but if the right man came along, I'd be willing to be with him.  None of this violates his established personality.

[Lopez23]

iamweaver wrote...

Lopez23 wrote...

I never plan having a gay character cuz im always a maleshep and can never romance anyone other than liara but i dont mind s/s romances if someone enjoys it and likes that sort of thing then im all for it for them....my male shep was mad tight with cortez i liked him he was a great character with a good story and was generally a chill guy....im glad bioware didnt go with the whole "im gay im gay im gay" thing with steve or traynor just talking bout oh yea im gay/lesbian hi and stuff, they made two great characters who happend to also be gay". i think the main arguments from people against the s/s romances were that they didnt want characters to all of a sudden become bi or whatever, didnt want their shepards getting hit on by the s/s romances and ninjamanced which i think can be decent arguments in a way, the whole characters becoming bi thing isnt really a big issue because gay kaidan really just goes for the single sheps with no romances or newgame me3 sheps and you can easily put him down if he makes an advance because i heard one complaint about DA2 with that mage who hits on ur male and u either am like yea i like u too or a complete **** to him but i think they didnt good to avoid the ninja manceing and my male shep was never hit on by steve in any of my playthorughs so it kinda throws that out the window even when at purgatory when u say what about me hes like sorry shep but ur taken and stuff so i think they did good with balancing out the concerns and giving gay sheps what theyve been waiting for for the past few years

Let me add to this (and note to Lopez23 - It's very difficult to read a post without paragraphs), that I also liked the closeness of Steve and Vega.  Not that I would necessarily expect anything else, but it was good to see that Cortez wasn't treated as the "token gay male character".

In fact, in some ways, this is even more important than the S/S relationships themselves.

sorry bout that lol but yea i almost forgot that about steve and vega they were like best buds and though im pretty sure vega is straight like from his confusion over steves "u do love grizzlys" comment or whatever he said but yea they made em straight up normal people just like gays are in real life

[krukow]

Mr.House wrote...

krukow wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

[

flanny wrote...
I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

That is not changed, it is expanded... I have dated girls who only had boyfriends before... was dating me a retcon of their life?

I feel this is a much better explanation for Kaidan's newfound sexuality.  He was straight in ME1.  You couldn't romance him as a guy.  This was established.  He's just grown and changed as a character, and now he has these new feelings.  I find that a far better explanation than "his sexuality wasn't established.  Nu-uh!"  He didn't like guys in ME1.  He does now.  It does happen from time to time.  Though I would have found it a lot less plausible in Ash than Kaidan. 

And I played KOTR for like 10 years before I found out Juhani was gay.  Guess that's what I get for always playing as a guy...

How do you know he did not like guys in ME? Maleshep was never allowed to flirt with him because Bioware cut his gay romance. I bet you if maleshep was able to flirt with Kaidan back in ME Kaidan would be all over that in a second.

He didn't have a gay romance, Hale and Meer read from the same script.  You'd think that urban legend would have died out by now...

And that's an arguement from silence.  The game clearly shows that he's interested in femshep, but if you're maleshep, there's no romance.  I don't mind that he changed, I just wish people would stop pretending there's hasn't been some change.

Modifié par krukow, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .

[Mr.House]

I can romance Kaidan in ME as Maleshep. I can continue that romance in ME2 as maleshep. In ME3 I even get all the romance content with maleshep before his dinner. So ya... He has always been bi.

[flanny]

Baronesa wrote...

flanny wrote...

I'm glad it was put for mass effects gay fan base, while I myself don't consider romance arcs to a major part of bioware games, I know many people. Since DA already 'broke the ice', and with the whole Liara + Femshep romance there was little reason not to include it.

you need to look back even further:

KOTOR: Juhani, first confirmed lesbian jedi

"Juhani is the first female character written for the Star Wars
universe that is a lesbian. An error in the first release of the video
game allowed player-characters of both male and female genders to access
the Juhani romance sub-plot, leading some people to believe that Juhani
was bisexual, but the error has since been corrected and the romance
sub-plot restricted to female player-characters." - From Wookiepedia.

Jade Empire: Sky and Silk Fox

flanny wrote...
I do have a bit of a reservation about Kaiden's character being changed to suit the part, as it's pretty much established unless you never talked to him that he's interested in women. It would have been better if it had been just been cortez and the 'new character to explain things about the series to new fans character' instead of vega.

That is not changed, it is expanded... I have dated girls who only had boyfriends before... was dating me a retcon of their life?

forgot about her, I usually end up killing her though rather then making her a squadmember (probably should mention it's nothing to do with orientation I just like dark side playhtroughs), Also I wasn't aware the player could romance her. but I stand corrected.

As for the second point i simply think you need to draw a distinction between real life and a game. In a game that focuses so deeply on character interaction, you never get to see anything before ME3 that Kaiden might be gay (he only expresses interest in women), I simply think it would fit the theme better if they made a new gay character (inside of vega), rather then change Kaiden's character.