490 réponses à ce sujet

[flanny]

Mr.House wrote...

I can romance Kaidan in ME as Maleshep. I can continue that romance in ME2 as maleshep. In ME3 I even get all the romance content with maleshep before his dinner. So ya... He has always been bi.

is there a mod or something? or do you mean headcanon?

[krukow]

flanny wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I can romance Kaidan in ME as Maleshep. I can continue that romance in ME2 as maleshep. In ME3 I even get all the romance content with maleshep before his dinner. So ya... He has always been bi.

is there a mod or something? or do you mean headcanon?

Either he uses a mod, or he means he doesn't romance anyone and considers it a slow, simmering romance with Kaidan.  Which is fine, it's not that much different than me "romancing" Ashley in ME2.

[chuckles471]

As long as Bioware(as a whole not just me3 team) doesn't do this constantly the same in the future with every game. Y'know 2 straight 1 Bi 1 gay because it will feel like more a gameplay mechanic than actual character traits. I know Bioware is famous for it's inclusive nature of sexuality in games but they can mix it up a bit from time to time in the future. A lesbian romance but have a gay male who doesn't fancy your character no matter what you do. Hell, even throw in transgender(is that PC, im not sure) to mix things up like Naoto from persona 4.

I just hate box ticking in life even if it is a positive reason to do it.

[Mr.House]

Sure to romance Kaidan in ME, you need to mod but Meer still does all the dialog, but that does not change the fact that in ME2 Bioware had Meer do the romance lines(something that was useless unless Bioware had plans) and in ME3 Meer did ALL of Kaidans romance before you have dinner with Kaidan. Maleshep can only start a romance with Kaidan at dinner in ME3, however Bioware still let players continue it as maleshep. Bioware always wnated Kaidan to be bi, you can cry and argue all you want that it's not true and he was retcon, but that's simply not true with all the evidence and how Bioware did it.

PS:Hale did not do any of Ash's romance in ME3.

Modifié par Mr.House, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

flanny wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I can romance Kaidan in ME as Maleshep. I can continue that romance in ME2 as maleshep. In ME3 I even get all the romance content with maleshep before his dinner. So ya... He has always been bi.

is there a mod or something? or do you mean headcanon?

There where cut audio files in game I think, the storyline was just never implamented in the final game. There are mods out there.

[krukow]

Mr.House wrote...

Sure to romance Kaidan in ME, you need to mod, but that does not change the fact that in ME2 Bioware had Meer do the romance lines and in ME3 Meer did ALL of Kaidans romance before you have dinner with Kaidan. Maleshep can only start a romance with Kaidan at dinner in ME3, however Bioware still let players continue it as maleshep. Bioware always wnated Kaidan to be bi, you can cry and argue all you want that it's not true and he was retcon, but that's simply not true with all the evidence and how Bioware did it.

PS:Hale did not do any of Ash's romance in ME3.

I'm not crying.  I actually don't care about Kaidan (see avatar pic).  I was simply saying that he's unromanceable S/S until ME3, and that I think him discovering new feelings later in life is a better explanation than just saying "his sexuality wasn't established!"

That's all I'm saying.  That it's a better explanation.

[Fiery Phoenix]

How about we just stop calling characters bi/homosexual/heterosexual and simply pretend they're whatever we want them to be for our playthroughs?

Sounds like a decent Occam's Razor to me...

[jlb524]

krukow wrote...
I'm not crying.  I actually don't care about Kaidan (see avatar pic).

Aw, Ashley, y u hate Kaidan?

chuckles471 wrote...
As long as Bioware(as a whole not just me3 team) doesn't do this constantly the same in the future with every game. Y'know 2 straight 1 Bi 1 gay because it will feel like more a gameplay mechanic than actual character traits.

Yeah, I want the next game to be all homosexual exclusive romances and no heterosexual ones.

I mean, why do they always have to provide multiple heterosexual options anyway?  Seems like a ridiculous gameplay mechanic to me.

Modifié par jlb524, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:24 .

[erilben]

Mr.House wrote...

Sure to romance Kaidan in ME, you need to mod, but that does not change the fact that in ME2 Bioware had Meer do the romance lines and in ME3 Meer did ALL of Kaidans romance before you have dinner with Kaidan. Maleshep can only start a romance with Kaidan at dinner in ME3, however Bioware still let players continue it as maleshep. Bioware always wnated Kaidan to be bi, you can cry and argue all you want that it's not true and he was retcon, but that's simply not true with all the evidence and how Bioware did it.

PS:Hale did not do any of Ash's romance in ME3.

Kaidan says things like he "wants to prove himself to a woman he loves" and other things like he's never met a woman like Shepard. There's romance only lines where he refers to Shepard as "ma'am". What happens here for manShep?

[iamweaver]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

How about we just stop calling characters bi/homosexual/heterosexual and simply pretend they're whatever we want them to be for our playthroughs?

Sounds like a decent Occam's Razor to me...

Yeah, that was my point earlier.  Characters are whatever they are for your  playthrough. You cannot look at every available response from every dialogue path or dialog wheel optoin and say, see - this is part of NPC X's character, even if you don't choose those options" . The different dialogue trees aren't necessarily consistent.

[iamweaver]

jlb524 wrote...

krukow wrote...
I'm not crying.  I actually don't care about Kaidan (see avatar pic).

Aw, Ashley, y u hate Kaidan?

chuckles471 wrote...
As long as Bioware(as a whole not just me3 team) doesn't do this constantly the same in the future with every game. Y'know 2 straight 1 Bi 1 gay because it will feel like more a gameplay mechanic than actual character traits.

Yeah, I want the next game to be all homosexual exclusive romances and no heterosexual ones.

I mean, why do they always have to provide multiple heterosexual options anyway?  Seems like a ridiculous gameplay mechanic to me.

Just as with the other aspects of an RPG, different romances play out very differently.  It's not as though you have to do a single set of actions, and just substitute in NPC X for NPC Y.   It also adds to replayability.

[krukow]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

How about we just stop calling characters bi/homosexual/heterosexual and simply pretend they're whatever we want them to be for our playthroughs?

Sounds like a decent Occam's Razor to me...

Well, because certain people are things.  Cortez is gay, Ashley is straight, Kaidan is bi, and Garrus is awesome.  Part of the game being inclusive is recognizing and respecting these various traits in people.  Identifying characters' sexuality as something is only a problem if you think that something is bad.

[hoorayforicecream]

I think the world would be a better place if people didn't automatically assume "heterosexual unless proven otherwise".

[jlb524]

iamweaver wrote...
Just as with the other aspects of an RPG, different romances play out very differently.  It's not as though you have to do a single set of actions, and just substitute in NPC X for NPC Y.   It also adds to replayability.

My scenario provides choice and replayability...as long as you RP a homosexual PC.

[mauro2222]

Mr.House wrote...

Ok so he's into women, show me in ME where he is not into men sexualy.

Or romantically.

Edit: Is that even a word? I think I just made it up

Modifié par mauro2222, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:40 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

krukow wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

How about we just stop calling characters bi/homosexual/heterosexual and simply pretend they're whatever we want them to be for our playthroughs?

Sounds like a decent Occam's Razor to me...

Well, because certain people are things.  Cortez is gay, Ashley is straight, Kaidan is bi, and Garrus is awesome.  Part of the game being inclusive is recognizing and respecting these various traits in people.  Identifying characters' sexuality as something is only a problem if you think that something is bad.

I really have no problem with either, but more than a few folks apparently do. Such a tough life we lead..

[krukow]

mauro2222 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ok so he's into women, show me in ME where he is not into men sexualy.

Or romantically.

That's an arguement from silence.  Just FYI.  It's a fallacy.

[mauro2222]

krukow wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ok so he's into women, show me in ME where he is not into men sexualy.

Or romantically.

That's an arguement from silence.  Just FYI.  It's a fallacy.

Why? Love and sexual attraction are two different things, more when love is irrational.

[krukow]

mauro2222 wrote...

krukow wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ok so he's into women, show me in ME where he is not into men sexualy.

Or romantically.

That's an arguement from silence.  Just FYI.  It's a fallacy.

Why? Love and sexual attraction are two different things, more when love is irrational.

No, I mean to say "show me where he isn't interested in men, therefor he was bi" is an arguement from silence.  You're trying to use a lack of evidence as evidence for your side.  I may as well say "Show me where he isn't attracted to children".  Same logical fallacy.

Kaidan was straight in ME1, though with some under the surface stuff.  He fully discovered new feelings in ME3.  This is fine.  It just means his character evolved from what it had been.  Does it make it better if I use the word evolve instead of change?

[Batnat]

jlb524 wrote...
Yeah, I want the next game to be all homosexual exclusive romances and no heterosexual ones.

I mean, why do they always have to provide multiple heterosexual options anyway?  Seems like a ridiculous gameplay mechanic to me.

Hehe...I guess that would be the only BioWare game I´d ever preorder again...

[mauro2222]

If he doesn't say it, you can't assume that it's the contrary, is not a fallacy, it's a real fact.

It applies both ways, he shows interest in women, then he likes women, that doesn't make him straight only, the path is open to bisexuality, pansexuality, and heterosexuality.

[krukow]

mauro2222 wrote...

If he doesn't say it, you can't assume that it's the contrary, is not a fallacy, it's a real fact.

It applies both ways, he shows interest in women, then he likes women, that doesn't make him straight only, the path is open to bisexuality, pansexuality, and heterosexuality.

But the only evidence we have is that he likes women.  And from a meta perspective, you can only romance him if you're a woman.  And since the game does include a S/S romance (Liara), it's safe to assume the characters are aware of homosexuality (even though femshep has that dumb "but I'm a girl" line).

I'm not arguing from a lack of evidence.  I'm following all the evidence to the logical conclusion.  You're making the teacup orbiting jupiter arguement (yeah, but how do you KNOW???). 

And again, I don't care about the evolution.  I just think him discovering new feelings is the proper explanation.

[iamweaver]

jlb524 wrote...

iamweaver wrote...
Just as with the other aspects of an RPG, different romances play out very differently.  It's not as though you have to do a single set of actions, and just substitute in NPC X for NPC Y.   It also adds to replayability.

My scenario provides choice and replayability...as long as you RP a homosexual PC.

I so didn't read your OP correctly.  *facepalm*

[mauro2222]

krukow wrote...

But the only evidence we have is that he likes women.  And from a meta perspective, you can only romance him if you're a woman.  And since the game does include a S/S romance (Liara), it's safe to assume the characters are aware of homosexuality (even though femshep has that dumb "but I'm a girl" line).

I'm not arguing from a lack of evidence.  I'm following all the evidence to the logical conclusion.  You're making the teacup orbiting jupiter arguement (yeah, but how do you KNOW???). 

And again, I don't care about the evolution.  I just think him discovering new feelings is the proper explanation.

Oh, wait. I get it.

Well if you metagame then yeah, you right. I wasn't trying to use an illogical argument here. If someone doesn't tell you in the face what he likes, then you can't be 100% sure ('cause you know, you aren't that person), that's what I was trying to say.

Modifié par mauro2222, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:57 .