371 réponses à ce sujet

[Aggie Punbot]

devSin wrote...

I'm pretty sure Patrick has said Tali did not and would not betray Shepard in this way. She's loyal to her people, but she isn't going to do something that would violate Shepard's trust. (Although it wouldn't really bother my Shepard if she stole the designs from Cerberus.)

Still, I think I'll push her off the cliff next time. You can never be sure.

If you have to tell people outside of the game that something did or did not happen, you failed in telling the story. The codex that infers that Tali stole the tech is in gthe game; Patrick telling us that she did not is not.

[D24O]

TS2Aggie wrote...

If you have to tell people outside of the game that something did or did not happen, you failed in telling the story. The codex that infers that Tali stole the tech is in gthe game; Patrick telling us that she did not is not.

Is this the actual codex, or the 2 lines on that ship we never actually see?

[Spartanburger]

It could just be an example of Convergent technological evolution rather than blatant stealing.

That said, the easiest explanation is usually the correct one, and it's easiest to explain by Tali's work on the ship and intimate knowledge of the ship core from ME1 and ME2.

But, in a wartime situation such as this, I don't think "stealing" such technology matters. Everyone's lives are at stake, so if there's a type of tech that can help improve one person, or one group's chances at survival and/or victory, then it helps everyone. And considering that the tech could be transferred from person to person by simply transmitting the digital blueprint or designs of the tech, it takes very little resources to share.

If such "intellectual property" (I hate that term) being shared is an issue, then take it up with the Quarians after the war when the threat of extinction isn't hovering over everyone's heads.

[George-Kinsill]

I'm pretty sure I told Tali to scan every part of the ship in ME2, right after I recruited her. I think it was a fair trade; she got cool stealth tech which helped the Quarian fleet in war against the Reapers (after their idiotic & short war with the Geth) and she cleaned the Engine room of bugs, which all my Sheps greatly appreciate.

[D24O]

I would honestly have an easier time believing Xen read about the Normandy's attack on Soverign and had a genius moment, than Tali stealing tech. It's not in her character.

[Aggie Punbot]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Are people looking this hard for reasons to hate the Quarians/Tali?

You don't need to look that far to find reasons to hate the quarians, to be honest.

[incinerator950]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

Cerberus got the plans for the Stealth Drive Simply by asking for them.  REMEMBER:  Until the Events of ME 1, Cerberus was a Black Ops Alliance sponsered Group that actually helped get the drive built in the first place.

Engineer Adams also states that, Given a month on board, Tali would know more about the engines than he did.

Salarians could have scanned it after Virmire.  Commander Rentola might have (since it IS possible to kill Kirahe).

Quarians could also have simply been given the plans from the Turians in return for some assistance.  Salarians also might have done so.

As for Tali, one of the engine Room Banters REALLY puts Egg on her face about it in ME 3.

And Shepard didn't steal the Normandy SR-2.  EDI did.  Or did the third Log about her on Chronos Station not ring a bell?

Acting on orders from Sur'Kesh, STG agents procured schematics of the
SSV Normandy's stealth systems and the algorithms behind the Normandy
SR-2's Reaper IFF signal. Months of research yielded something
previously unthinkable--dreadnoughts with stealth capabilities.

[SparkyRich]

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

[D24O]

SparkyRich wrote...

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

^

[DevilBeast]

JBPBRC wrote...

Burnhardt wrote...

Or the most tech-savvy race in the galaxy came up with it on their own.

Most tech-savvy? Ehhhhh. When it comes to scavenging, recycling and repurposing things yes.

I'd think the Geth are more tech savvy overall than their Quarian creators. Then there's the humans, who developed it on their own (okay, with Turian help, but still).

The Asari probably could've had it before anyone thanks to their secret Prothean tech, but were too busy dancing and stripping instead of being commandos. Or something. I forget how the joke went exactly, just that I was SUDDENLY VERY ANGRY AT JOKER for some reason.

Well, if Joker knew what happened to his sis, then he probably wouldn´t want more asari commandos..

[Aggie Punbot]

SparkyRich wrote...

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

See, here's where I disagree. I would actually have little problem with sharing that technology with anyone except the quarians. Why, you ask? No other race has declared their intentions to attack and attempt to eradicate an entire race like the quarians have (to the geth), except maybe the Krogan in one instance (that instance being when Wreav is in charge). Hence, the quarians have proven that they can't be trusted to use such technology in a responsible manner.

The fact that they chose the worst possible time to instigate a war with the geth proves that they are selfish and close-minded and lack the ability to see the big picture. Their actions not only endangered a sapient race (the geth), but they also endangered the entire galaxy's existence because they (the quarians) were too stubborn and self-aggrandizing to be able to see that their possible victory would have meant the death of everyone (not just geth and quarians).

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 01 août 2012 - 01:57 .

[justafan]

TS2Aggie wrote...

SparkyRich wrote...

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

See, here's where I disagree. I would actually have little problem with sharing that technology with anyone except the quarians. Why, you ask? No other race has declared their intentions to attack and attempt to eradicate an entire race like the quarians have (to the geth), except maybe the Krogan in one instance (that instance being when Wreav is in charge). Hence, the quarians have proven that they can't be trusted to use such technology in a responsible manner.

The fact that they chose the worst possible time to instigate a war with the geth proves that they are selfish and close-minded and lack the ability to see the big picture. Their actions not only endangered a sapient race (the geth), but they also endangered the entire galaxy's existence because they (the quarians) were too stubborn and self-aggrandizing to be able to see that their possible victory would have meant the death of everyone (not just geth and quarians).

Well, there was that one time Krogan were slamming asteroids into planets.  Oh, and the other time the Salarians and Asari Used the Krogan to eradicate the Rachni who in turn were eradicating the Salarians and Asari.  Not to mention the time they used the genophage as a "gentle genocide".  The Batarians would like nothing more than to destroy humanity, and I'm pretty sure the Reaper's mantra is "genocide everything to death".

Genocide is pretty much the norm of the galaxy.  The only major race that doesn't have it on their resume yet is humanity, and Shepard can fix that with destroy.

Not to mention, the Quarian goal was never to "eradicate the geth"  it was to "reclaim the homeworld", it just so happens that every action of the Geth in the past 300 years has led the galaxy to assume that you couldn't have one without the other.

[hoodaticus]

Doesn't matter have Shepard.

[incinerator950]

SparkyRich wrote...

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

Yeah, and the Salarians should have cured the Genophage, and the Asari should have shared the Beacon.  While we're at it, the Quarians should have joined forces with the Geth instead of destroying their Dyson sphere.

[DPSSOC]

TS2Aggie wrote...

SparkyRich wrote...

All allies here - Instead of being insular and secretive, perhaps it would have been better if the entire galaxy had been set up with these upgrades to save lives when the Reapers showed up. Cerberus has the Alliance thinking too much like them - "It's us against them" is a poor attitude when we could be helping to build a better galaxy together.

See, here's where I disagree. I would actually have little problem with sharing that technology with anyone except the quarians. Why, you ask? No other race has declared their intentions to attack and attempt to eradicate an entire race like the quarians have (to the geth), except maybe the Krogan in one instance (that instance being when Wreav is in charge). Hence, the quarians have proven that they can't be trusted to use such technology in a responsible manner.

The fact that they chose the worst possible time to instigate a war with the geth proves that they are selfish and close-minded and lack the ability to see the big picture. Their actions not only endangered a sapient race (the geth), but they also endangered the entire galaxy's existence because they (the quarians) were too stubborn and self-aggrandizing to be able to see that their possible victory would have meant the death of everyone (not just geth and quarians).

This.

But yes pwecious wittle Tawi took advantage of your trust and stole the schematics for the top secret stealth system and gave it to a bunch of genocidal, insular, xenophobic, war hungry morons with a long history of holding grudges.  You know I missed this little detail in my first run but since I found it I find it really hard to make myself protect the Quarians from their own stupidity.  Really if we win it's only a matter of time before they set their sights on us so probably best to let the Geth take care of them.  Alas I remind myself that I still have to deal with the immediate threat.

[Rustedness]

...clever girl.

</velociraptor attack>

[SSPBOURNE]

So Tali went out of the way to help her people, even through immoral means. Isn't that what Shepard does EVERY DAY?

[TheWerdna]

Hmm, lets see. Tali was working on said systems as engineer for several months... so she likely learned how the stealth systems worked (note, the Tantelus drive core is completely separate. from the stealth systems). Since the Quarian ship in question seems to not be able to completely conceal heat transmissions, it seems more likely that Tali was able to figure out how to make a similar stealth system given what she learned while on the Normandy.

[The Twilight God]

Rhayak wrote...

 When you start the Rannoch storyline, you dock with the Quarian Diplomatic vessel.

It's described as a vessel similar to other Quarian models, yet possessing a very advanced Stealth technology, not unlike that of the Normandy. It is also 'unsure' how the Quarians acquired such tech.

Then it hit me: IT WAS THAT TWO-TIMING **** TALI!!!!!!!!!!!!

All playing innocent nerdy schoolgirl in Mass Effect 2.... yet she would omni-tool-scan the hell out of your ship every single time you were not looking! Even after you agreed to be her lawyer free of charge!!!!! >(((((

I swear that thought completely changed my overall feelings about her. And i mean over the whole trilogy.

What do you think? I mean yeah, giggly Quarian bums and all, but how can we really trust Tali? How many times would she sacrifice Shepard to give the flotilla the slightest edge?

I am now unsure about my decision to kill the Geth with my soldier on 1st playthrough. He might be a renegade, but sure as hell he is against slavery....

Well, we got cyclonic barriers in exchange....

[TheWerdna]

Honestly, I think its less of "Tali stole the designs" and more of "worked on them for long enough to figure out how to make similar, if not as completely effective, stealth drives"

[TheWerdna]

Rhayak wrote...

 When you start the Rannoch storyline, you dock with the Quarian Diplomatic vessel.

It's described as a vessel similar to other Quarian models, yet possessing a very advanced Stealth technology, not unlike that of the Normandy. It is also 'unsure' how the Quarians acquired such tech.

Then it hit me: IT WAS THAT TWO-TIMING **** TALI!!!!!!!!!!!!

All playing innocent nerdy schoolgirl in Mass Effect 2.... yet she would omni-tool-scan the hell out of your ship every single time you were not looking! Even after you agreed to be her lawyer free of charge!!!!! >(((((

I swear that thought completely changed my overall feelings about her. And i mean over the whole trilogy.

What do you think? I mean yeah, giggly Quarian bums and all, but how can we really trust Tali? How many times would she sacrifice Shepard to give the flotilla the slightest edge?

I am now unsure about my decision to kill the Geth with my soldier on 1st playthrough. He might be a renegade, but sure as hell he is against slavery....

Umm, you realise part of Tali's character growth is the fact that she comes to think of the Normandy as her home and flat out chooses to join Shepard several times rather then help the Migrant fleet. So ya, I think we can trust her.

Also, quick note. The Stealth drives on the Normandy were not a new concept, they were just the most advanced versions of them. Tha Tantelus Drive core was the big, secrit thing the SR1 and SR2 has going for it. By ME3 the freaken shuttles have stealth tech, which I best use the exact same concept. The quarians could have figured it out on their own (or even just Tali figuring it out given her knowlage gained from working on the SR1 for a couple of months, without needing to steal anything) without much trouble.

Honestly, the Stealth Drives wern't all that big a deal. They were high-tech and state of the art, but not ever a huge secret. Now,  if the Quarians suddently had a Tantelus Drive Core, then that would be reason to get upset and freak out (since that WAS the big, top secret thing the Normandy had)

Modifié par TheWerdna, 01 août 2012 - 05:00 .

[Maples01]

See, the perfect galaxy we are creating all species will hold hands and sing:

[Aggie Punbot]

DPSSOC wrote...

But yes pwecious wittle Tawi took advantage of your trust and stole the schematics for the top secret stealth system and gave it to a bunch of genocidal, insular, xenophobic, war hungry morons with a long history of holding grudges.  You know I missed this little detail in my first run but since I found it I find it really hard to make myself protect the Quarians from their own stupidity.  Really if we win it's only a matter of time before they set their sights on us so probably best to let the Geth take care of them.  Alas I remind myself that I still have to deal with the immediate threat.

No, no. The quarians only want to retake their homeworld from the AI that they themselves created by 'skirting around' council laws regarding such things. I can't imagine they'd have any illusions that they would ever have any chance of conquering anyone.

But back to the original topic: Ashley was absolutely right about the need to restrict the aliens' access to sensitive military equipment, and I wish there had been an opportunity to agree with her in Mass Effect 1.