Original182 wrote...
robertthebard wrote...
Dude, seriously, get off Alistair's boots
I think we should be the ones telling you that.
, you know where he's been walking. What are the terms of the duel? They are clearly laid out before you start. The Landsmeet will follow the winner. I dueled Loghain, and I won. My terms, not Alistair's. From day one, Alistair has laid the responsiblity for stopping the blight squarely on your shoulders. When you decide that Riordan's statement about compelling reasons to have as many Wardens as possible at the Archdemon is compelling reason to let him live, the matter should be closed. Now, you may be saying that he's not power hungry, and shouldn't be considered such, but, let's play what if:
What if he gets his way and siezes the crown and gets to kill Loghain? Is he going to be a good King, or is he going to be a King that abuses his power to meet his ends, exactly the same way he did to get the crown in the first place. While this is hypothetical, since he can't win that little decision, it's what needs to be considered.
Wrong, you judge that based on the epilogue. After he becomes king to kill Loghain, did he further abuse his power in the epilogue? You are calling him power-hungry just based on one act alone. Justice which should by default have been carried out.
Again, calling Alistair for wanting to seek justice as power-hungry is quite the stretch. Then Grey Wardens are also power-hungry, because they have invoked the Right of Conscription to prevent local Ferelden cases from carrying out their sentences. Duncan has done this for the dwarf commoner, mage and city elf origins.
It is well within Alistair's right to seize the throne to seek justice, even if you consider it countering the sentence you passed. Wanting to seek justice is not power hungry. He did not have to take the throne to get justice. That extra step should not have been needed.
At this point, he is no better than Anora or Loghain, and may in fact be worse than Anora.
Horrible reasoning. Alistair is as bad as Anora and Loghain just because he wants justice.
Alistair is a saint, however, despite the fact that he will do exactly what Loghain did prior to your duel, and go against what the Landsmeet has decided. You see, his sentence is no longer up in the air at this point. Alistair's hissy fit is a direct result of that sentence being passed down. You can color this however you like, but he is in it for the power to kill Loghain with noone being able to question him on it.
How can wanting to kill Loghain for justice be power-hungry? Alistair has been with you up to that point as a lowly templar Grey Warden. He doesn't seek riches, willing to listen to your orders, and doesn't live like a rich noble. How can you say someone like that is power-hungry? How can you even compare him to Anora or Loghain?
Conclusion: Alistair is not as power-hungry as Anora or Loghain. That was the original point to be debated.
There is no epilogue to Alistair siezing the crown in that instance, because it cannot happen. The entire Landsmeet knows this is a bad thing, and raises up against him. Doing so may ultimately end up in his death, which is I believe where the option to kill him at the Landsmeet comes from. So I guess the answer to your question is, Alistair is dead in that epilogue.
Again, with this hangup on Justice. Alistair doesn't want to kill Loghain for selling the elves into slavery. Nor does he want to kill him for Killing Cailin. Alistair wants to kill him for killing Duncan. Nothing else factors into his decision to wrest the crown from Anora. This is not Justice. This is vengence, and the only way he can get it is to get the power to do so and be above reproach for doing it, so he has to be King. In order to get the power to do what he wants to do in the name of vengence he must take the crown. He is not thinking of the good of Ferelden, nor is he trying to stop the Blight. He wants his power so he can kill one man. If he could be successful, do you not think he wouldn't turn on you and Riordan next in his little fit of power mad rage? After all, you forced his hand, and defiled the memory of Duncan.
Again, perspective time. He's not looking for justice. You can put that thought out of your head. He's not thinking about the good of Ferelden, despite trying to take the crown to rule it. So a man that is blindly motivated by revenge isn't power hungry when he attempts to take the throne? What would you call it then? Wait, you don't have to answer, you already have, it has to be justice, simply because Alistair is doing it. The fact that you hold onto this position, despite all the evidence to the contrary shows that no matter what, he can do no wrong. I'm sorry that you feel that way, old man. If siezing the throne to meet one's own ends is power mad for one person, it is for anyone else too. Loghain is far from innocent. However, when he is beaten, he at least goes with dignity, even if you do kill him. Alistair is far from honorable. He wants the throne for the power to kill one man, initially. Who's to say who he'll decide to kill after that?
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