23 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Outcaat]

I love this game, but one thing I don't understand is how the identity of being "The Grey Warden" seems to take over everything else, which is really odd considering that the various origins are so good and help me provide a specific personality for the characters I play. It really irks me how quickly these origins are just discarded with the exception of a few odd comments you can make and the potential for being Royalty for human nobles.

Now I'm not saying being a Grey Warden isn't a big deal or anything, it just strikes me as odd that it takes priority over everything else in a character's life. The most glaringly out of place example of this is the Fade in the Circle of Magi. Why is the illusion always about Duncan and the end of the darkspawn? I truly can't picture a character from any of the origins having that as thier ideal fantasy. Hell, unless you were a dwarf noble you only ever met 2 of em.

Also, I know it's implied that a year passes between the origin and the official start after the battle of Ostagar, but personally, I never really felt like my character was a Grey Warden til at least half the areas are complete. Not because my character is weak, but because I've done nothing to prove that I belong to the ranks til then. A character's history consists of Wardenhood at the begining pretty much consists of not dying to a drink, iighting a bonfire, and not dying from a peppering of arrows. The whole battle has the feeling of showing up to work on the first day of a new job and finding out the company went bankrupt.

I wish the early game had more option as a character to, well, not be a Grey Warden. More relunctancy to single handedly carry the burden that was just carried by hundreds, and perhaps more insistance to persue personal goals, like revenge against Howe or Bhalen. An interesting twist for the Dalish too would have been to abandon Ferelden to attempt to rejoin thier clan since they're cured. And perhaps build up to a more defining moment for the character to embrace the title of Grey Warden. For the most of the game I just felt like a jackass using the title of some dead heroes to con people into respecting me.

[Kosh_Naranek]

The *entire game* takes place over about a year and a half to two years, what makes you think that it's a year from the origin to the end of Ostagar?

[AntiChri5]

Would have been better if they had done more to establish you as a Grey Warden.

[AntiChri5]

Kosh_Naranek wrote...

The *entire game* takes place over about a year and a half to two years, what makes you think that it's a year from the origin to the end of Ostagar?

Frequently got the same impression as OP.

[HarlequinDream]

Joshyfruit wrote...

Haha another thing I noticed is that before you even drink the darkspawn blood, Duncan already says "you're a Grey Warden." Not to mention people assume you're a Grey Warden before you actually go through the ritual; you're right, it does seem a bit rushed.

Well, once you get there, you can't back down. Either you survive the Joining and become an "official" Gray Warden or you die. It's pretty much a "Once you sign up, you're in until you die."

[Eternal Outcaat]

Kosh_Naranek wrote...

The *entire game* takes place over about a year and a half to two years, what makes you think that it's a year from the origin to the end of Ostagar?

The most solid evidence is as a Dwarf Noble, if in the origin you sleep with the Noblehunters, you will have a newborn son on returning to Orzammar. Also, if you won the proving the Proving Fan will mention having seen your victory "last year"

Wynne also comments on it being a year since you left the Tower as far as I've heard, though I didn't get that scene myself.

Modifié par Eternal Outcaat, 20 décembre 2009 - 06:40 .

[Kosh_Naranek]

I always saw it as, at most, a couple of weeks to a month. After all, somehow Cailan still hasn't heard that, say, Arl Howe has attacked and murdered the Couslands, the second-most powerful family in Ferelden and personal friends of his wife, when you arrive at Ostagar, and yet messengers have arrived at Ostagar with your description. I imagine SOMEONE would have told him in all that time if it had really been *that* long.



The Wynne conversation is a bit anomalous, yes.

[KalosCast]

Kosh_Naranek wrote...

I always saw it as, at most, a couple of weeks to a month. After all, somehow Cailan still hasn't heard that, say, Arl Howe has attacked and murdered the Couslands, the second-most powerful family in Ferelden and personal friends of his wife, when you arrive at Ostagar, and yet messengers have arrived at Ostagar with your description. I imagine SOMEONE would have told him in all that time if it had really been *that* long.

The Wynne conversation is a bit anomalous, yes.

The Wynne conversation as well as the Dwarf Noble's son. In fact, the only origin that doesn't support this is Dalish Elf, since you're slowly dying. Given that the PC is the -only- survivor of the Cousland slaughter (Duncan excluded) Howe can come up with any story he wants. He did bring his entire army that was supposed to be fighting at Ostagar to sack Castle Cousland. All he had to do was blame it on errant darkspawn or raiders and say he was barely able to fight them off at heavy losses.

[riptide1246]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Well, once you get there, you can't back down. Either you survive the Joining and become an "official" Gray Warden or you die. It's pretty much a "Once you sign up, you're in until you die."

How funny would it have been had there been an option to refuse to drink the darkspawn blood and Duncan proceeds to stick you like Ser Jory, and then that's the end of the game  XD

[riptide1246]

"And so, the story of the would-be Grey Warden came to an abrupt and bitter end. Leaving offenses un-revenged, adventures untold, and the monumental task of quelling the Blight unfinished in his/her wake. Duncan perished in the following battle at Ostagar, and Alistair became an investment banker. The End."

[skotie]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Joshyfruit wrote...

Haha another thing I noticed is that before you even drink the darkspawn blood, Duncan already says "you're a Grey Warden." Not to mention people assume you're a Grey Warden before you actually go through the ritual; you're right, it does seem a bit rushed.

Well, once you get there, you can't back down. Either you survive the Joining and become an "official" Gray Warden or you die. It's pretty much a "Once you sign up, you're in until you die."

Funny thing is you could have easily left the Grey Wardens after Flemeth saved you, you were the only two surviving wardens in Fereldan after all who is to say you survived at all? Even if other Grey Wardens came to hunt you down its not like they have supernatural powers to find you or kill you once they do.

[cepapoe]

riptide1246 wrote...

"And so, the story of the would-be Grey Warden came to an abrupt and bitter end. Leaving offenses un-revenged, adventures untold, and the monumental task of quelling the Blight unfinished in his/her wake. Duncan perished in the following battle at Ostagar, and Alistair became an investment banker. The End."

And it would be comic gold if they added the death theme song from Mass Effect in thier as well.

[Thomas9321]

Eternal Outcaat wrote...

Kosh_Naranek wrote...

The *entire game* takes place over about a year and a half to two years, what makes you think that it's a year from the origin to the end of Ostagar?

The most solid evidence is as a Dwarf Noble, if in the origin you sleep with the Noblehunters, you will have a newborn son on returning to Orzammar. Also, if you won the proving the Proving Fan will mention having seen your victory "last year"

Wynne also comments on it being a year since you left the Tower as far as I've heard, though I didn't get that scene myself.

If you don't get Wynne until later in the game that conversation is fine. The circle tower is always my third or fourth treaty so the passage of a year always seems fine. They should have probably only made that  dialgue trigger after you've done the third treaty however.

The Dwarf Noble's son is another one that only makes sense if you go to Orzammar last. Before that though it does seem odd.

[Squiggles1334]

Is it possible that each origin story takes place at a different time? Like perhaps Duncan visits the Circle tower and Orzammar about a year before the battle at Ostagar while his visit to Highever and perhaps the Denerim Alienage were mere weeks before Ostagar? Kinda like each origin story occupies a different slot in Duncan's country-wide recruitment tour itinerary.



Just a thought to throw out there, I haven't completed every origin story yet so I'm not yet familiar with all the details on the impression of time passage. I could totally be wrong in every way here, and I wouldn't know unless somebody politely corrected me.

[NatOreN]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Is it possible that each origin story takes place at a different time? Like perhaps Duncan visits the Circle tower and Orzammar about a year before the battle at Ostagar while his visit to Highever and perhaps the Denerim Alienage were mere weeks before Ostagar? Kinda like each origin story occupies a different slot in Duncan's country-wide recruitment tour itinerary.

Just a thought to throw out there, I haven't completed every origin story yet so I'm not yet familiar with all the details on the impression of time passage. I could totally be wrong in every way here, and I wouldn't know unless somebody politely corrected me.

I believe you may have a point there. The dwarven commoner origin, for example, happens to occur the day before the dwarven noble. I remember someone mentioning in that particular origin that the commission of the king's second son would be celebrated the next day.

[kevinwastaken]

skotie wrote...

Funny thing is you could have easily left the Grey Wardens after Flemeth saved you, you were the only two surviving wardens in Fereldan after all who is to say you survived at all? Even if other Grey Wardens came to hunt you down its not like they have supernatural powers to find you or kill you once they do.

I agree with you, but I think it is at least possible for other Gray Wardens to sense your presence (and thus track you) since you have the "taint."  I could be wrong, but others in the game can sense you because of this so it's at least hinted at.

Whether or not they would even bother is another matter.

[Herakleia]

I love this game, but one thing I don't understand is how the identity of being "The Grey Warden" seems to take over everything else, which is really odd considering that the various origins are so good and help me provide a specific personality for the characters I play. It really irks me how quickly these origins are just discarded with the exception of a few odd comments you can make and the potential for being Royalty for human nobles.

The game wants me to treat Duncan as some kind of surrogate father and Jedi master.  From my character's perspective, he's a cold blooded murderer and a con artist.  The Grey Wardens are a dubious secret society that recruited me under false pretenses and then poisoned me.  They will kill to keep the petty secrets of their initiation ritual secret.  The king that expelled them did right. 

And so far, being drafted into this dubious outfit has not given me any noticeable advantage in fighting Darkspawn, since I fought them the same way before being drafted at sword's point. 

[Bomfy]

I have the impression the that the Grey Warden ritual is always rushed, to make sure as few as possible get stuck when they try and back out. Especially when Alistair is around, I could totally have seen him go, congrats on your 30 more years until you're dead max, unless the darkspawn get you first. If the first person was fine. He is in fact a moron.



The casteless dwarf story gives off the impression that it's somewhere near a year when you get back. Your sister has a kid and she wasn't preggers when you left. I guess we need to know the gestation period on a dwarf to get a better idea ad to the time frame. But then your old buddy makes if seem like thing have moved pretty quickly to get to where they are since you left.



As for the acting dead and being tracked down, I would bet it's possible. That would be an amusing questline, chase down AWOL Grey Wardens.

[ejoslin]

The time between the origin and Ostegar is just a week or two; the time it takes to get there. I agree that the Wynne conversation should have been triggered after getting a few treaties. I'm not sure how you'd get around your sister having a kid in Orzammar unless if she were pregnant if you go soon and a mom if you go after so many treaties. It would give a better feeling of time.

Getting from Flemeth's hut to Lothering does seem to take awhile, though.

What I didn't understand about the Mage origin story is why Loghain just didn't use your phylactory to track you down. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 décembre 2009 - 04:19 .

[SekuLarac]

Yes... like the OP said... i am sometimes 'ashamed' to say that i am a Gray Warden in the conversations. So i use that option rarely

[NatOreN]

ejoslin wrote...

The time between the origin and Ostegar is just a week or two; the time it takes to get there. I agree that the Wynne conversation should have been triggered after getting a few treaties. I'm not sure how you'd get around your sister having a kid in Orzammar unless if she were pregnant if you go soon and a mom if you go after so many treaties. It would give a better feeling of time.

Getting from Flemeth's hut to Lothering does seem to take awhile, though.

What I didn't understand about the Mage origin story is why Loghain just didn't use your phylactory to track you down. 

I'm guessing that only the Chantry and the Circle have the authority to access those, no-one else. Then there's always the possibility and highly likely reason that he didn't know who the surviving Grey Wardens were. You don't go hunting down a particular Grey Warden if you don't know it's him you should be hunting, now do you?

Modifié par Saivar, 20 décembre 2009 - 04:32 .

[Trumwulf]

One thing to keep in mind is the the travel time in Ferelden. It's hard to get an idea of the true size of the country when the plot remains on hold as our little bloodstains take the long way around on the roads (seriously, we're working to save the world from oncoming darkness and destruction, can't we travel overland a little bit? You know, travel in straighter lines?). I think the most telling point about the travel time comes if you accept the quest for the dwarf girl to join the Circle of Magi. She makes a mention of it being about a month travel from Orzammar to the Circle tower - so that trip should take two months. That trip looks pretty short on the map, just over the north of the lake. Now imagine the trip from Highever to Ostagar, or imagine the times your character made the long trek past Denerim on the road that travels around the center of Ferelden.



I also agree with the mention someone made about the origin stories possibly happening at different times. In the Human Noble story your brother has just been sent down to help the King at Ostagar and your father and Howe are preparing to march their parts of the army - so Cailan must just be approaching Ostagar at that point. I get the impression that the encampment hasn't been there too long yet. It's been there long enough for a couple of skirmishes with darkspawn (enough to infect the war hounds) but not long enough that Duncan hasn't sent more experienced Wardens to get the treaties (I mean seriously, something that important and you trust it to 3 uninitiated recruits and your rookie Warden?). In regards to the Dwarf story, I get the impression when you head back to Orzammar that they have been wrangling for a while on the kingship aspect - and it's enough time for the woman crimelord (can't remember her name now) to considerably solidify her power.