343 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMadCat]

Oh no I think we're all in agreement that the story of Thedas is far from over. But when you use words such as trilogy it implies that this story and the main character, you, are going to be stretched over multiple games and that part I don't see happening. Like I said my money is on an expansion or rather large DLC finishing off this characters story meaning Morrigan, Flemeth, and the child, creating a much cleaner ending, and setting up for the next characters story.

[Squiggles1334]

Sialater wrote...

Dunno about y'all, but I the last card I got was that my adventures were far from over.

I got an ending like that too... but that was in Baldur's Gate 2.

[Medhia Nox]

How about.. "This is the wrong reason to have a child."



Do any of you actually have children? Did you have them because of the advantage they would provide you with later? Seriously?



Good Lord people.. Morrigan's "God Child" is a tool.. which she intends to use. This isn't compassion.. or philanthropy.. or humilty. This is done by a woman who confesses many times that survival is everything..



IF she is Flemeth.. and Flemeth takes the body of her daughter once she becomes more powerful.. then a daughter with the powers of an Old God sounds perfect.



But of course.. birthing a child to consume it later and extend your life is. "Grey"

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

ShadowAldrius wrote...

I imagine it'll be somewhere between B and C.

My pet theory on the game has always been that the expansion/sequel/the next major storyline would focus on a war between Flemeth (either in a new body after you killed her or simply in the Kate Mulgrew-voiced body if you spared her/never did the side quest) and the Empress of Orlais and the Chantry. (It's headquarters being in Orlais.)

This is getting into the realm of a crazy fan theory but my personal opinion is that Flemeth is a reborn Archdemon (she can transfer from body to body just like the Archdemon, but she shows no signs of taint and she's mortal, or at least her body is), much in the same way that Morrigan's potential child will be. Her goal is to re-establish the old god religion and destroy the Chantry as part of her revenge. (Or just to eradicate a powerful enemy.)

In that vein, having a second reborn old god to help her is a potential boon to Flemeth (or Morrigan, if she feels she's inherited her mother's mission), but not entirely necessary. In that way, the plot could play out without the child, but it could play out differently if the child is there, and it could play out VERY differently if it's Alistair's child or the Grey Warden's child. It would heighten the drama, but the overall plot structure would be the same. (Flemeth does battle with the Chantry.)

In essence Morrigan's child wouldn't be a subplot, but it wouldn't be a totally necessary aspect of the main plot either. It'd be like if you spare Loghain at the landsmeet. The plot plays out VERY differently from that point forward. And Alistair is likely not involved at all. But the plot itself is basically the same with some differences as far as the details are concerned.

Honestly, this is fairly baseless speculation, but I think there's some merit in there somewhere.

I have a similar belief although I hadn't drawn it out as much as you have. My slight tweak to what you've said though is that the bodyswap story Morrigan told the PC isn't completely and utterly true and yet at same time not false.

I think we will see Morrigan with child, whether it be the old-god or not, but I do believe another essence will be in that child even if the old-god is there. That being Flemeth.

As you've pointed out, Morrigan states the ritual was Flemeth's idea to begin with and told her to go with you for that reason. If that is the case, it kind of chucks the whole "She plans to takeover my body" story out the window and then brings us back to a comment Flemeth said which was "Yes she does, the question is do you?", I reckon the ritual that happens regarding the old-god is akin to how Flemeth and in some respects Morrigan "It is a tale Flemeth has heard before and also told..." have managed to remain alive for such a long time (first recordings of Flemeth being around was before the 3rd Blight, waay back in the past).

We know Flemeth can shapeshift into a Dragon, according to Morrigan to be able to shapeshift into an animal the mage has to spend some time with them. This I believe ties in with your Tevinter theory AND in some respects maybe why Morrigan disapproves of not taking up the Tevinter Mages offer.

Dragons only started coming back into the realm at the beginning of this current age and for along while the Tevinter Imperium has lost its power. They are looking to return to power and Flemeth/Morrigan is going to do their best to help out.

With the old-god they get more knowledge from the past, without it, their plans still are ongoing, just not as powerful as they possibly could be.

I also think if they do a sequel it will be based 30 years in the future. That will tie in nicely with the comment Flemeth makes to the character if they spare her which is that they won't see her again because even if they survived the blight they'll be dead (well the wardens at least will be).

Course, if the Warden did do the ritual, it is then up to whichever side wins as to whether they will be remembered as heros (for aiding the return of the religion of the old-gods) or fools/villains (for aiding the attempted resurgence. After all, history is written by the victors.

Edit: One thing that always makes me laugh when this topic is debated, is the people that claim they can't trust Morrigan are generally the ones whom believe every word she has said?

Seriously, where is the logic in that?

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 22 décembre 2009 - 06:04 .

[TheMadCat]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Dunno about y'all, but I the last card I got was that my adventures were far from over.

I got an ending like that too... but that was in Baldur's Gate 2.

Wasn't there a BG3 planned though but scappred for NWN and the move to 3D or is my memory broken again?

Modifié par TheMadCat, 22 décembre 2009 - 06:03 .

[Squiggles1334]

TheMadCat wrote...

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Dunno about y'all, but I the last card I got was that my adventures were far from over.

I got an ending like that too... but that was in Baldur's Gate 2.

Wasn't there a BG3 planned though but scappred for NWN and the move to 3D or is my memory broken again?

The only thing I ever heard about BG3 was a rumor blurb on IGN years ago (along with PS:T2), this after BioWarians had stated pretty explicitly that there was no BG3 in the works.

I do not trust IGN to know what they're talking about, anyway.

[TheMadCat]

http://en.wikipedia....ur.27s_Gate_III



It's wiki but whatever. The point I was trying to make is the story did indeed mean to continue just it never came about, obviously.



I don't know, with Dragon Age Gaider and company closed the story very well but at the same time left it with plenty of room to continue on with the same main character and a few of the big supporting one. Seems to me like they wanted to see what it did financially, if it tanked do some DLC and call it a day if it did well continue on. You don't leave that much wiggle room on all your endings by accident.

[Sialater]

That's pretty much how you start off a series, be it a trilogy or higher. Close the first chapter with wiggle room. That's why Episode IV ended like it did with Darth Vader not dying.

[Maconbar]

Sialater wrote...

That's pretty much how you start off a series, be it a trilogy or higher. Close the first chapter with wiggle room. That's why Episode IV ended like it did with Darth Vader not dying.

Imagine if Darth Vader never showed in Episode V after seeing him spin off into space in IV.

[TheMadCat]

Of course you're right, it very well could be a trilogy or whatever and indeed this is how they start. Like I said though, nothing has ever been hinted at while Mass Effect was a confirmed trilogy well before it was even released where as Dragon Age has been out for over a month and aside from the DLC not even a clue as to where it's going. You also generally have more similar, more clean endings to make the transition much more clear and simple, again not really the case though I'm a strong believer they can all be worked around if they do continue with the same PC.



We both agree the game is going to continue and most likely there will be at least something extending this main characters adventures. I just think you're using the term trilogy a little broadly, at least more broadly then I would use it.

[Sialater]

We should say, "Series," Not "Trilogy."

Modifié par Sialater, 22 décembre 2009 - 07:30 .

[SarEnyaDor]

As long as they don't end any of them the way Matrix 2 ended..........

[Sialater]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

As long as they don't end any of them the way Matrix 2 ended..........

Or Matrix 3.

[SarEnyaDor]

Yeah, but at least in 3 it didn't seem like the reel broke at the theater

[Estelindis]

Well, sorry about the trilogy thing.  My mistake.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

 Morrigan states the ritual was Flemeth's idea to begin with and told her to go with you for that reason. If that is the case, it kind of chucks the whole "She plans to takeover my body" story out the window and then brings us back to a comment Flemeth said which was "Yes she does, the question is do you?"

I don't know if there have been many threads about the VO/localisation dev comments yet, but open up that conversation ("flemeth_plot") in the toolset and on that line we have the following comment: "she knows very well that Morrigan has lied to the player."  What do people think of that?  ;-)

[Sialater]

OK... but about what? At that point that "bargain" hasn't even been broached.

[Estelindis]

Not to your character, no. But between Morrigan and Flemeth, certainly.



I guess it makes me wonder how many other lies Morrigan has told to the player character. Without that comment, I would have regarded her as someone who prefers to lie by omission or to just refuse to answer a question rather than one who would wield untruth like a bludgeoning weapon. It just doesn't seem Morrigan to me. Guess it shows what I know!

[Sialater]

Estelindis wrote...

Not to your character, no. But between Morrigan and Flemeth, certainly.

I guess it makes me wonder how many other lies Morrigan has told to the player character. Without that comment, I would have regarded her as someone who prefers to lie by omission or to just refuse to answer a question rather than one who would wield untruth like a bludgeoning weapon. It just doesn't seem Morrigan to me. Guess it shows what I know!

Well, I figured she's lying.  About what?  I don't know.  But she's not bright enough to lie with the truth, I don't think.  



I have other reasons for taking that deal.  None of them include trusting her.

[Taleroth]

Estelindis wrote...

I don't know if there have been many threads about the VO/localisation dev comments yet, but open up that conversation ("flemeth_plot") in the toolset and on that line we have the following comment: "she knows very well that Morrigan has lied to the player."  What do people think of that?  ;-)

Comments are hardly definitive.  Things change over the course of development, comments aren't always updated.

[Estelindis]

Sialater wrote...
Well, I figured she's lying.  About what?  I don't know. 

I did not figure she was lying, until this...  Perhaps I am too trusting.  But she strikes me as more likely than most to tell the truth, because of her defiant attitude.  In the end, she must remain something of a mystery (particularly with puzzles like these), so I suppose I'm reduced to "I don't know" as well.

Taleroth wrote...
Comments are hardly definitive.  Things change over the course of development, comments aren't always updated.

Many things change over the course of development, and I never said it was definitive.  ;-)  I still find it interesting, for the reason mentioned (lying doesn't fit with my image of Morrigan), and unless a dev says otherwise I shall operate under the assumption that the comment holds true.

Modifié par Estelindis, 22 décembre 2009 - 10:48 .

[Kreid]

I don't know if there have been many threads about the VO/localisation dev comments yet, but open up that conversation ("flemeth_plot") in the toolset and on that line we have the following comment: "she knows very well that Morrigan has lied to the player."  What do people think of that?  ;-)

I'm pretty sure it's about the reason Morrigan is with you, after all it's a lie, she tells you that she's with you to help you stop the Blight but she's in just because of the baby, and if you refuse her she won't even staay until the end, so that's a lie however you look at it.

I too think Morrigan mainly lies by omission.
She simply doesn't tell you what you wanna know util you squeeze it out by asking directly, like the Archdemon deal which she didn't tell you because "you wouldn't have believed her", or when you ask her what is she going to do with the child and she simply refuses until you ask more directly then she complies and tells you still vaguely.

Modifié par Creid-X, 22 décembre 2009 - 11:32 .

[deusofnull]

It'll be interesting that's for sure. The diversity of endings in DA1 is greater than in any other Bioware game. Look at Mass Effect, either you do something, or you don't. Granted there are tons of different ways to get there, but at the end, there are two main endings. That makes for a sequel that has only 2 major differences.



Not in DA though, there really is only one ending but multiple circumstances upon which you reach this ending. Frankly, it makes for a difficult environment to write new content for.



I wouldn't be surprised if the next DA game is in a different part of Thedas and the PC as someone other than the warden from DA1. I'd be disappointed if this happens, but I could very easily see this happening.

[Estelindis]

I'm pretty sure it's about the reason Morrigan is with you, after all it's a lie

To be honest, I really get the impression that the comment is saying that Morrigan lied to the PC about Flemeth's means of prolonging her life, since that is what the PC and Flemeth are actually discussing. 

But yes: to a certain extent, knowing that Morrigan deceived you from the start regarding her reason for being with you does kinda make it hard to believe anything else she says...  Particularly when she only comes clean on that night, no matter how much or how little she cares for you.  And I'm saying that even continuing to believe that, for the most part, she doesn't out-and-out lie to you.  I just mean that it casts doubt over the trustworthiness of many things she wants you to believe.

Modifié par Estelindis, 22 décembre 2009 - 11:37 .

[robertthebard]

She didn't lie about her reason to be with you. She went to help you stop the blight. The ritual does not prevent stopping the blight. The archdemon dies, just as it does if you don't do the ritual.

[Obadiah]

[Shrug] It is hard to believe that Morrigan is lying when Flemeth doesn't deny it, and kinda sorta pretty much confirms her story. Of course, once you start going down the path of "who is lying" in a game where your conversation options are so rigid, and no evidence is offered one way or another to the facts, your speculation can be endless. At some point one has to believe that the developer/writer has enough respect for the players to give them (or make available) enough information to make the choices offered.

But who know? Maybe the right answer is once Flemeth turned into A DRAGON, the PC knew he/she couldn't trust Morrigan and should have kept the Grimoire for further study, kicked Morrigan out of the party since she's more a liability than asset, and told her, "Hell no!" when she made the offer at the end.

Ah, well, questionable companions are always to good part of the ensemble adventurer's story.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 12:05 .