343 réponses à ce sujet

[deusofnull]

Estelindis wrote...

I'm pretty sure it's about the reason Morrigan is with you, after all it's a lie

To be honest, I really get the impression that the comment is saying that Morrigan lied to the PC about Flemeth's means of prolonging her life, since that is what the PC and Flemeth are actually discussing. 

But yes: to a certain extent, knowing that Morrigan deceived you from the start regarding her reason for being with you does kinda make it hard to believe anything else she says...  Particularly when she only comes clean on that night, no matter how much or how little she cares for you.  And I'm saying that even continuing to believe that, for the most part, she doesn't out-and-out lie to you.  I just mean that it casts doubt over the trustworthiness of many things she wants you to believe.

If she had told me at some earlier point, like once all the treaties were completed, I would be far less betrayed and hurt.  I really liked her...

[Estelindis]

One thing that always confused me was the fact that Flemeth offers you the Grimoire as something to fob off Morrigan before you even mention it... A mistake in writing the conversation, or a slip that points to elaborate collusion of some sort?



So... confused... :-(

[Leonhartx]

guys theres such a thing called cannon....



like in Kotor... the actual story is LS Jedi Revan?



so if Bioware goes with a sequel, Morrigan (being one of the more favorite characters) having the child has a good chance of happening regardless of how many of you RP'ed it out your playthrough.

[Estelindis]

There is also such a thing as canon, but never mind. ;-)



And yes: that's one way of doing it. But importing decisions from previous games, as Mass Effect does, is also an option. I hope Bioware will be taking it, even as the mind boggles at having to manage two story streams that seem so different (to us, with our current point of views).

[TheMadCat]

Leonhartx wrote...

guys theres such a thing called cannon....

like in Kotor... the actual story is LS Jedi Revan?

That was more Star Wars/Lucasfilms cannon then actual Bioware/story cannon. KoToR 2 actually allowed either ending to be used in the story based on your choice.

As I've said, they left themselves enough room to allow all the endings to stick and to bring the main character if they so choose, if they decide to use a different main character it becomes even easier. Wait and see, but they didn't dig themselves in so deep a hole that they need to canonize it.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 23 décembre 2009 - 01:00 .

[Obadiah]

Well, I'm hoping we just find out the outcome of the choice at some point. A epilogue card or book indicating some big war that took place at some point in the near future (or not) because of it is fine by me. I don't need to roleplay a direct sequel. In fact I'm hoping the next Dragon Age game is a completely different story.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[robertthebard]

Obadiah wrote...

Well, I'm hoping we just find out the outcome of the choice at some point. A epilogue card or book indicating some big war that took place at some point in the near future (or not) because of it is fine by me. I don't need to roleplay a direct sequel. In fact I'm hoping the next Dragon Age game is a completely different story.

I would just as soon not be a Grey Warden in a sequel.  If we are, we are, but it would be nice to do things because we want to, instead of being "required" to. 

[Obadiah]

ckriley wrote...
And now there's an even greater evil out there somewhere, growing inside Morrigan's belly.

No way any of this should have been optional.  

Y'know, if you're a dude and you convince Alistair to do the deed, he gets to ask Morrigan the straightforward question (that my PC wanted to ask really) of whether this child will be a threat to Ferelden. Morrigan swears it won't, and that he'll never see it again.

Hmm... interesting. What kind of weirdo plot is this?

[AtreiyaN7]

Didn't Morrigan say something in response to one question about the Old God/child: "Some things in this world are worth preserving. Make of that what you will." Who says she is planning on pulling a Flemeth? Maybe she legitimately wants to save something that is/was very special (based on her dialogue). No one can definitively say whether or not an untainted Old God is "evil" anyway. Seeing as this particular reborn Old God was the God of Beauty, I'm thinking...maybe not? If it were the God of Death, God of Discord or God of Really Evil Nasty Things and I'd rethink that position however.

[Original182]

Yes my personal theory is Flemeth wants to be an Old God, and she planned for Morrigan to be pregnant with the Old God, then possess her. Once the Old God child has been born, Flemeth would then possess the child and become a god.

Morrigan initially didn't know of Flemeth's possession plan, but I think she genuinely wants to preserve an Old God. My theory is that she plans to raise the Old God to free the world of the "Chantry's control", and remake it in her vision.

[Estelindis]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Didn't Morrigan say something in response to one question about the Old God/child: "Some things in this world are worth preserving. Make of that what you will." Who says she is planning on pulling a Flemeth? Maybe she legitimately wants to save something that is/was very special (based on her dialogue).

I really wish that was true.  Really, really, really.  But why would she hide so much from *every* type of PC if that was the case?  Is there no possible Warden who could and would help her achieve what she wants, if it's such a bold, brave, and noble thing?  Or is it just a question of this being so important to her that she simply cannot risk interference from anyone, even one who she thinks *might* be able to help (in case they ended up not doing so)?  I mean, if nothing else, it is staggeringly clear that this is incredibly important to Morrigan.  That might be the only explanation I could buy.

[AtreiyaN7]

Estelindis wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Didn't Morrigan say something in response to one question about the Old God/child: "Some things in this world are worth preserving. Make of that what you will." Who says she is planning on pulling a Flemeth? Maybe she legitimately wants to save something that is/was very special (based on her dialogue).

I really wish that was true.  Really, really, really.  But why would she hide so much from *every* type of PC if that was the case?  Is there no possible Warden who could and would help her achieve what she wants, if it's such a bold, brave, and noble thing?  Or is it just a question of this being so important to her that she simply cannot risk interference from anyone, even one who she thinks *might* be able to help (in case they ended up not doing so)?  I mean, if nothing else, it is staggeringly clear that this is incredibly important to Morrigan.  That might be the only explanation I could buy.

Well, I suppose one could argue that it's part of her nature to hide things because she was raised by Flemeth. She's been taught to protect her own interests and focus on survival with sentiment and emotional attachments being viewed as bad things generally. If you do get buddy-buddy with her as a female, she will call you a true friend eventually...I don't think she shounded like she was lying when she said it. As to why she would keep such things secret...when is the last time any person in Ferelden actually had a positive reaction to apostates and/or the words "blood magic"? I just don't think it would over too well - even if you were talking about blood magic rituals with Wardens (who according to Duncan are cool with the use of blood magic in stopping a Blight). I suppose Avernus would be interested, heh.

There's no denying that it's possible that Morrigan is using the child for something nefarious (according to Morrigan this was originally Flemeth's plan - what that plan was we'll never know for sure I guess). Maybe Morrigan really had a change of heart - at least I'd hope so after everything. Personally, I just hope there's a DLC to resolve this eventually - or you could hazard a guess at what happens based on Arl Foreshadow's note if you want to finish the Summoning Sciences quest - heh.

** Edited to fix typo!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:22 .

[Estelindis]

Good point regarding Morrigan being secretive because of her upbringing, Atreiya. Sometimes I expect characters to have "good" reasons for everything they do in order to cohere as characters. But bad reasons can work just as well. Thanks.

[Medhia Nox]

Flemeth says QUITE a lot about "Belief" when you first meet her. She even asks you what you believe.. if you say that "You're no fool." She challenges it..

Perhaps, when you prove you ARE a fool by believing Morrigan, she just figures that there's no point in arguing with an idiot.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:11 .

[Squiggles1334]

Just to throw another bone into the big mixing pot of opinions and wild speculations...

BioWare explicitly stated they are trying to make Dragon Age into an entire franchise, including videogames, books, and a PnP tabletop game. No word on trading cards or figurines yet, but anyway... If they're trying to build their own franchise here, I think it would be really shortsighted to make all the games focused on the Blight and its fallout. The whole setting would be a one-trick pony. Imagine if every game set in the Forgotten Realms was about a Drow invasion. DA:O did a good job of establishing the nature of the Darkspawn, the Blights, and the Grey Warden organization.

There's already a number of aspects of the setting that have strong potential for exploration in the game, such as the Fade, racial tensions, border tensions, political intrigues... Hell, BioWare could even introduce something completely new that had no overt reference point in DA:O or the currently published books up to this point. I'd be excited for that.

Way more excited than for Morrigan's optional DirtyLittleBastard, at least.

[TheMadCat]

Partly why I've been suggesting them doing an expansion instead of a sequel if they do go ahead with the baby thing. So much land and lore in this universe, I'd like to see them move onto the next big chapter in the story sooner rather then later. At the same time though there are quite a few loose ends and a rather big plot possibility that can go in about a million different directions. Bring the PC back, tie everything up nicely and give it a nice clear and clean ending and move on to the story.

[Medhia Nox]

If they force the child.. I will be very unhappy. Unless, perhaps.. they suggest that - without you being aware - Alistair and Morrigan were having an affair on the side. This is the only option I can think of that would allow the God-child story to happen.. but also leave room for the PC to deny Morrigan. ((Unless, of course.. the PC did not deny her.))



Assuming this possibilty of a hidden romance between the two.. Morrigan still needs to be pregnant and bring the child to term. Then.. it's just an infant. I despise stories that do the "Because of magic.. this child will grow quickly to serve the story! ENCHANTMENT!" I will be really disappointed to find that Bioware's writers could not be more creative.



However.. let's say the child IS born. Perhaps, it's very birth is fortold by magi.. perhaps, visions of it are seen by priestesses throughout the Chantry. Perhaps, High Dragons the world over learn of it.. and then, there are the Darkspawn.



A great war erupts across the world. Not because the child has grown up and is leading armies.. but, the very idea that this child possesses such immense power is intoxicating. The Qunari want it destroyed.. the Tevinter Imperium wants it to mold.. perhaps the Chantry sees it as Andraste reborn.



Thus begins Dragon Age: Messiah.



Player as King, and Dead Player are such drastic departures from one another that I really don't believe the original character will be involved. So, new "Origins". 1) Chantry 2) Tevinter 3) Ferelden Grey Warden 4) Etc. etc. They all draw you into the Morrigan's flight from those that are persuing her and the child.. she asks you to help her. You agree.. whether our of compassion, your own desires.. or some other contrivance that forces the story along.



From there.. several games could lead you to serving, controlling, or fighting against the child as "she" (it's gonna be a she I bet) grows up.



I think that's a better framework than.. "Child is old god, threatens world, beat up Morrigan and child.." Just my opinion though.

[ShadowAldrius]

Player as King, and Dead Player are such drastic departures from
one another that I really don't believe the original character will be
involved.

Well. Most likely the 'dead PC' ending will result in you being incapable of transferring your character over and continuing the story. The same way ME2->ME3 will work. If you died, you need to start over with a new Warden.

Not saying that it's not possible that they'll create a new protagonist, but... don't rule anything out like that.

[Medhia Nox]

Is that confirmed for Mass Effect 2/3 that you will simply "stop"? I was under the impression that we'll be able to continue the campaign with "Dead Shepard" as an option.. I'd find that more compelling.. otherwise.. Shepard dying is pointless.. Mass Effect 3 doesn't really continue the story then.



Anyway, that was totally off topic.. back to Morrigan and her hellspawn.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...

How about.. "This is the wrong reason to have a child."

Do any of you actually have children? Did you have them because of the advantage they would provide you with later? Seriously?

Good Lord people.. Morrigan's "God Child" is a tool.. which she intends to use. This isn't compassion.. or philanthropy.. or humilty. This is done by a woman who confesses many times that survival is everything..

IF she is Flemeth.. and Flemeth takes the body of her daughter once she becomes more powerful.. then a daughter with the powers of an Old God sounds perfect.

But of course.. birthing a child to consume it later and extend your life is. "Grey"

QFT!

Lotion Approves (+25)

[Obadiah]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
...
There's no denying that it's possible that Morrigan is using the child for something nefarious (according to Morrigan this was originally Flemeth's plan - what that plan was we'll never know for sure I guess). Maybe Morrigan really had a change of heart - at least I'd hope so after everything. Personally, I just hope there's a DLC to resolve this eventually - or you could hazard a guess at what happens based on Arl Foreshadow's note if you want to finish the Summoning Sciences quest - heh.
...

Evil or not, Morrigan is a character that values power and survival above all else, and she's asking you to grant her even more through a sick and twisted perversion of a sex act, with compelling arguements of pretty much pure selfishness. I think the real point of the choice of the ritual is:
- Can you trust her with that kind of power?
- Is it worth the risk of some future problem?
- How badly do you want to survive your duty?

It's a pretty good final temptation.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 08:07 .

[robertthebard]

I really think a 4some with Isabela is far more perverse, and fun, than a one on one sex act intended to produce a child. Although I'll just have to imagine all the fun I had with my PC, Leliana and Isabela.

[Obadiah]

robertthebard wrote...

I really think a 4some with Isabela is far more perverse, and fun, than a one on one sex act intended to produce a child. Although I'll just have to imagine all the fun I had with my PC, Leliana and Isabela.

Really? Describe the four-some to any aquaintance, and then Morrigan's ritual offer. I'm pretty sure Morrigan's will get the look of shock over the four-some in most (if not all) cases.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 08:14 .

[Maconbar]

I hope that Morrigan names the child: Damien.

[robertthebard]

Obadiah wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I really think a 4some with Isabela is far more perverse, and fun, than a one on one sex act intended to produce a child. Although I'll just have to imagine all the fun I had with my PC, Leliana and Isabela.

Really? Describe the four-some to any aquaintance, and then Morrigan's ritual offer. I'm pretty sure Morrigan's will get the look of shock over the four-some in most (if not all) cases.

Not amongst my circle of friends.  I was bouncer in a strip club for about 5 years too.  However, even the friends that I grew up, at least the ones that are still alive, wouldn't find either particularly shocking.  Now, I may not want to discuss either with my mom, but...