343 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

robertthebard wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I really think a 4some with Isabela is far more perverse, and fun, than a one on one sex act intended to produce a child. Although I'll just have to imagine all the fun I had with my PC, Leliana and Isabela.

Really? Describe the four-some to any aquaintance, and then Morrigan's ritual offer. I'm pretty sure Morrigan's will get the look of shock over the four-some in most (if not all) cases.

Not amongst my circle of friends.  I was bouncer in a strip club for about 5 years too.  However, even the friends that I grew up, at least the ones that are still alive, wouldn't find either particularly shocking.  Now, I may not want to discuss either with my mom, but...

Even given that history, I think your friends probably know the difference between acts of sexual pleasure, and purposefully conceiving a child (or thing) , bonding it to a spirit, and giving birth to it in order to survive.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 08:46 .

[robertthebard]

If I was a particularly religious man, I would argue that you do those things every time you procreate, unless fetuses don't have souls?

[Obadiah]

robertthebard wrote...

If I was a particularly religious man, I would argue that you do those things every time you procreate, unless fetuses don't have souls?

You want to argue that the spirit of the Old God bonded to a concieved child is the same as the "normal" soul of a conceived child?

Be my guest.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:04 .

[robertthebard]

It's fun to watch you get all worked up, soon you'll be telling me that opinions can't be right or wrong, it just depends on what they're based on whether they're right or wrong, like somebody else here.



You know, I'm really sorry that you can't shock me with sexual conversations, so that you try to go all "What if..." on me on the baby. My position is clearly stated probably in this very topic. We don't know what if on this baby. We don't even know if it will be born. Further more, some people that chose the ritual aren't thinking about what might happen in 30 years, they are thinking that they either need the achievement, or didn't want to throw their or Alistair's life, or allow Loghain to redeem himself. If this fact is too much for you, it's really only your problem. Actually, it's not, because their save games do not affect your save games at this time. It's more of an oppurtunity for you to try to tell others how they should live, or play the game. Nice effort, but it's falling on deaf ears. I will play the game however I please, and if you don't like it, don't play it the way I do.

[Medhia Nox]

Funny thing is.. Robertthebard.. all those things you can't tell your mom? Yeah, there's a reason..



When we do things our culture would see as deviant, evil, or any other name.. we conceal them out of shame. We find like minded individuals so that we might feel comfortable. Surrounding ourselves with degenerates does not raise our morality.. it is simply a cult following of degenerates.



We all commit acts we are less than proud of. Moments when we wish we could have made a better choice instead of the selfish one. Times where we would have prefered to show our moral fiber... instead of giving in to our own craven impulses.



Some of us treat self-control with disdain. It is simply a natural reaction to something we cannot be ourselves. When we can't do something, or fail to do something someone else does, we grow to despise the thing because it is easier than looking at ourselves and altering our own weak, cruel, selfish behaviors.



----



Giving birth for personal gain is a disgusting act. Bringing more life in this world.. not out of a union of love.. but rather out of a desire for power, advantage, or resource.. is contemptable.



Now, in our modern culture we comfort ourselves with our high brow idea of "Grey" morality. Here's a reality check.. if you do not start out with Absolute Black and White.. you can never mix them to get grey. The two must exist for any variation of grey to be a possibility.



So, those loving "Grey" can have their illusion of no morality. They can screw Morrigan.. have a child for profit.. and claim themselves "pragmatic" (which seems to be a replacement for "If you don't do it.. you must be stupid."). I'll take the road less traveled.

[Lord Abrasion]

I can already see the main plot twist in DA:O2 - You are Rev... uhm... the god baby!

[robertthebard]

Actually, no. I can't tell my mom because she's Roman Catholic, and she would have a cow. As to whether I'm a moral degenerate, well, let's just say that the girls at the strip club I bounced at called me a Provert, because I didn't need to practice. I am not ashamed of any of it, I just don't see throwing it in my mom's face. If you can't justify that any other way than shame, then I'm sorry that you've been so sheltered. I have not. I have lived my life, and have few regrets. The ones I have have nothing to do with my lifestyle. I do, for example, regret missing my wife's funeral. We were divorced, and she was dead for about 6 months before I found out. I also regret missing my father's funeral, we had been estranged for 35 years or so when he died, and it was more like a year later when I found out. These things I regret, as to actually living my life, instead of hiding behind somebody else's idea of morality, no regrets.

[Bullets McDeath]

This is retarded. We're talking about the ending to a goddamn video game. I read a book once where everyone died, I guess that makes me king of the ****s. I don't understand how you can devote so much brainpower to this and at no point do you think to yourself "whoa i am thinking way too hard about choices in a ****ing videogame". Roberthebard, I don't mean you.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:32 .

[Obadiah]

robertthebard wrote...

It's fun to watch you get all worked up, soon you'll be telling me that opinions can't be right or wrong, it just depends on what they're based on whether they're right or wrong, like somebody else here.

You know, I'm really sorry that you can't shock me with sexual conversations, so that you try to go all "What if..." on me on the baby. My position is clearly stated probably in this very topic. We don't know what if on this baby. We don't even know if it will be born. Further more, some people that chose the ritual aren't thinking about what might happen in 30 years, they are thinking that they either need the achievement, or didn't want to throw their or Alistair's life, or allow Loghain to redeem himself. If this fact is too much for you, it's really only your problem. Actually, it's not, because their save games do not affect your save games at this time. It's more of an oppurtunity for you to try to tell others how they should live, or play the game. Nice effort, but it's falling on deaf ears. I will play the game however I please, and if you don't like it, don't play it the way I do.

I see. You think I'm judging you. No, this is a role-playing video game. I was judging fiction. My contest with your position is purely as a fan of the story. You are arguing that the choice role-playing wise does not really matter (because Morrigan isn't evil, the demon child isn't really perverse, there are compelling reasons of survival and tactical advantage to do the ritual). For myself, unless I delve into Saw movie torture territory I couldn't come up with a more twisted act or temptation than the one Morrigan offers, especially since I like the character so much. But I'm not terribly imaginative.

I think it was a really good plot device, and after playing this, I'm cringing at what may be in store in Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:56 .

[TheMadCat]

This is retarded. We're talking about the ending to a goddamn video game. I read a book once where everyone died, I guess that makes me king of the ****s. I don't understand how you can devote so much brainpower to this and at no point do you think to yourself "whoa i am thinking way too hard about choices in a ****ing videogame". Roberthebard, I don't mean you.

Haha, I love posts like these. The irony is always awesome and something about them just seems to scream "I lack self-confidence."

I can already see the main plot twist in DA:O2 - You are Rev... uhm... the god baby!

Yeah, I'm going to give Gaider a little more credit then that. Then again I just wouldn't be surprised.

[Gold Dragon]

I am fairly Certain that we will NOT be the God-child as an adult in the next DA. THat would be too easy.



Then again, it IS Bioware that we are talking about..... Don't EVER put anything past them. they just might DO it...

[robertthebard]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

I am fairly Certain that we will NOT be the God-child as an adult in the next DA. THat would be too easy.

Then again, it IS Bioware that we are talking about..... Don't EVER put anything past them. they just might DO it...

"Spiritual Successor to Baldur's Gate is one thing, stealing the plot device?  Please no.

[Medhia Nox]

So, would you regret having a child for personal gain?



Doing something is wrong.. and truly regretting it later.. is a path to attonement. ((But always better to never have done something to regret in the first place.))



Doing something wrong and excusing it away with moral-less ideals (the infamous "Grey" morality)... is something else.



----



As for applying real world morality to video games. If a medium cannot be used to reflect upon real life.. then I do not find worth in it. Yes, even my entertainment.

[Gold Dragon]

And yet.. It is the easiest plot hook to tie a sequel into.....

[Lord Abrasion]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

And yet.. It is the easiest plot hook to tie a sequel into.....

While my previous post was mainly a sarcastic joke of sorts, I have to agree with this.

[robertthebard]

Medhia Nox wrote...

So, would you regret having a child for personal gain?

Doing something is wrong.. and truly regretting it later.. is a path to attonement. ((But always better to never have done something to regret in the first place.))

Doing something wrong and excusing it away with moral-less ideals (the infamous "Grey" morality)... is something else.

----

As for applying real world morality to video games. If a medium cannot be used to reflect upon real life.. then I do not find worth in it. Yes, even my entertainment.

What would be the other reason to have a child?  Rulers have children to have heirs.  People have children to carry on their family name, sons anyway, all pretty much based on personal gain.  Children are our road to immortality.  Would I have children to sell into slavery?  No, and frankly, that's about the only evil reason to have children.  The problem with trying to transpose your morality to this situation is that you can't.  When's the last time one of your friends got pregnant with a God Child, or a God's Child?  What did they do with the baby?

[Maconbar]

TheMadCat wrote...

This is retarded. We're talking about the ending to a goddamn video game. I read a book once where everyone died, I guess that makes me king of the ****s. I don't understand how you can devote so much brainpower to this and at no point do you think to yourself "whoa i am thinking way too hard about choices in a ****ing videogame". Roberthebard, I don't mean you.

Haha, I love posts like these. The irony is always awesome and something about them just seems to scream "I lack self-confidence."

I can already see the main plot twist in DA:O2 - You are Rev... uhm... the god baby!

Yeah, I'm going to give Gaider a little more credit then that. Then again I just wouldn't be surprised.

LOL Its like going to an MMO board and reading QQ posts about people QQing.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Sialater wrote...

OK... but about what? At that point that "bargain" hasn't even been broached.

The "Yes she does, the question is, do you?" comment which is registered as her knowing Morrigan has lied to the PC, is all to do with how Flemeth extends her unnatural life, Flemeth knows that Morrigan has told you the 'tale' that Morrigan said regarding bodyswapping. She knows this because she has also told it herself.

Out of the two of them, Flemeth tells more truths than Morrigan does. Not only that she has really good foresight, because (if you've read the books) she told Maric that Loghain would betray him again and again each time getting worse. I believe that when she tells the PC in the first encounter that the wardens face a greater threat behind the Blight, she wasn't referring to the Archdemon, think about it, every Blight has one of those, I believe she was in fact referring to Loghain screwing things up. She also stated that Ser Jory was sadly not important in the grand scheme of things, I think she knew he didn't have the courage to go through the joining and thus knew what the outcome would be.

The thing is, a lot of people (and even animals) tell lies, to some it is a 'survival' tactic and it generally works well for them. As has been stated Morrigan just as much as Flemeth considers survival a big thing. That doesn't make them evil as some people claim them to be. If they were evil and wanted that old-god baby as bad as people believe then they would have done the ritual by force. Instead she walks off, not too happy but without any undue fuss. Just means they possibly have to wait another few hundred years to try getting that power again or seek some other means of power (become a member of the royals in Orlais.. perhaps )

To go back to the OP topic header, considering that David Gaider has stated that if they do a sequel then there will be a canon ending, then it would seem a bit strange that they did make it optional if it is supposed to have happened according to the canon, but if it wasn't then in some respects the refusal of it does play a part in the canon as well potentially.

They can get round the origin of the Warden simply by just referring to him as "The other warden". Which makes me think though that if they go with the non-ritual ending then it will be either Alastair or Loghain that made the sacrifice with 'The other warden' going off into the deep roads.

[TheMadCat]

To go back to the OP topic header, considering that David Gaider has stated that if they do a sequel then there will be a canon ending, then it would seem a bit strange that they did make it optional if it is supposed to have happened according to the canon, but if it wasn't then in some respects the refusal of it does play a part in the canon as well potentially.

Nope, I know what post you're talking about I believe. He said a canon ending was simply one way they could go, and would be the easier way and one they have done in the past. So he just pointed out it was one way they could go if they made a sequel, not that a canon ending is definitely the way they're going to go.