343 réponses à ce sujet

[LynxAQ]

GammaRayJim wrote...

I finished the game twice choosing to sleep with her in one and turn her down in the other. The epilogue in the one that I turned her down in stated that she was last seen crossing the Frostback mountains she was heavy with child. That same as in the one where I choose to sleep with her. Sorry guys I think this is a done deal for any future DLC, exp or sequels.

It also clearly states that she never got to finish the ritual therefore the baby is just a run of the mill baby. You get this epilogue if your main character sleeps with her but turns down the ritual.

David I believe has said that the ritual is needed to get the old god soul into the baby and that no warden would die if she managed to do it with "another" warden behind your back.

AKA - if your warden dies when slaying the arch demon - she has NO god child. If she managed to finish the ritual without you - YOU OR ALISTAIR OR LOGHAIN WOULD NOT OF DIED. Simple. But guess what? You do die therefore the ritual was not done and there is NO god baby.

There are also ending where she is thought to be spotted in orlais with no pregnancy. So using an ending as your "proof" is pointless, cause several exist where she isnt pregnant.

[SarEnyaDor]

The epilogues are really buggy - somethimes it suddenly changes your gender if you are in a romance with Zevran, or you and Alistair are married, but it thinks Anora and he are... I wouldn't base all my hopes on what a dinky index card said at the end on 2 playthroughs.



There are also romance bugs, where even if you didn't choose any of the romance options, the game treats you two as if you were an item. I'd suspect that as the cause of your "with child" one when you never slept with Morrigan in camp.



As I said before, as a female or a male who didn't romance her, you do not get that ending card at all, you get one about Orlais.

[Obadiah]

LynxAQ wrote...
AKA - if your warden dies when slaying the arch demon - she has NO god child. If she managed to finish the ritual without you - YOU OR ALISTAIR OR LOGHAIN WOULD NOT OF DIED. Simple. But guess what? You do die therefore the ritual was not done and there is NO god baby.

That's comforting. Somehow I suspect that wasn't the end of her plan to get the Old God.

[PuffyTail]

I disagree strongly that it was good for the plot in any way.  I thought the miracle god baby plot line was icky, cliched and overdone and I'll be very disappointed to see it have any effect on future DA:O games. Strong women like Morrigan are more than the sum product of their reproductive organs and deserve to have an impact on a story in other, more meaningful ways.  I'd be intrigued to see what she's been up to with TPTB in Orlais if the next game happened there, for example.

Modifié par PuffyTail, 20 décembre 2009 - 05:20 .

[darkmax1974]

Gosh! Just because Morrigan is self-centered does not make her evil. She wanting to have an old-god' soul in her baby does not make her evil... she is just ambitious. She doesn't know if it will even work.



So yes, I do see this plot being played out in the future sequel

[SarEnyaDor]

Pray tell, aside from waking up the next tainted old god, coercing a Grey Warden into helping her find it in the darkspawn filled Deep Roads and kill it right after she performs a dark ritual, how is she going to get another Old God soul?

She can't sacrifice the entire alienage to rip a hole in the Veil to stalk the Fade to find the previous one because it was obliterated at the same moment the Grey Warden's soul was that resulted in his/her death.

Like I said, it would be good *optional* DLC, not good at all for an expansion or DAO2.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 20 décembre 2009 - 05:25 .

[GammaRayJim]

Apparently these epilogues are buggy as it appears that these are a multiple as our choices during the game. Clearly just speculation on my part based on the amount of information at hand. And seeing that I am not one of the writers we will all just have to wait and see which direction they plan to take this story.

[Maconbar]

PuffyTail wrote...

I disagree strongly that it was good for the plot in any way.  I thought the miracle god baby plot line was icky, cliched and overdone and I'll be very disappointed to see it have any effect on future DA:O games. Strong women like Morrigan are more than the sum product of their reproductive organs and deserve to have an impact on a story in other, more meaningful ways.  I'd be intrigued to see what she's been up to with TPTB in Orlais if the next game happened there, for example.

So you would rather have Morrigan just shrug her shoulders when turned down and just give up on that idea? That doesn't seem to be consistent with her character at all.

[Imryll]

LynxAQ wrote...

For someone who is obsessed at forcing this ending, you might wanna at least make sure you have correct points. The child as told by Morrigan in game will be born with the Old God soul, but it wouldnt be evil or anything like that. It would be a "normal" child in the sense of wrong and right.

Mmm... my character is at the point of making this decision, and I'm finding it unexpectedly difficult. Could Morrigan possibly be right that the soul of the old god is "worth preserving?"  I seem to recall that the current Archdemon was once the god of beauty. I was so sure that refusing Morrigan would be the obvious choice, but I'm now having a bit of a wonder whether there might not be negative consequences (other than to the Warden and her friends) for destroying Beauty. Morrigan's attempts at persuasion (appealingfirst to pride), make me think no, but there is the possibility that she's trying to get me to do something good for bad reasons.

[Obadiah]

Imryll wrote...

LynxAQ wrote...

For someone who is obsessed at forcing this ending, you might wanna at least make sure you have correct points. The child as told by Morrigan in game will be born with the Old God soul, but it wouldnt be evil or anything like that. It would be a "normal" child in the sense of wrong and right.

Mmm... my character is at the point of making this decision, and I'm finding it unexpectedly difficult. Could Morrigan possibly be right that the soul of the old god is "worth preserving?"  I seem to recall that the current Archdemon was once the god of beauty. I was so sure that refusing Morrigan would be the obvious choice, but I'm now having a bit of a wonder whether there might not be negative consequences (other than to the Warden and her friends) for destroying Beauty. Morrigan's attempts at persuasion (appealingfirst to pride), make me think no, but there is the possibility that she's trying to get me to do something good for bad reasons.

Uh yes. The Old Gods were the ones who taught the Tevinter Magisters blood magic and allowed them to invade the fade (and kill countless people the fuel their blood magic power). From this example, I'm not sure the Old Gods are any better untainted.

[mrao]

Perhaps if you sleep with Morrigan during the game but refuse the ritual, its just a regular kid she ends up with? In fact I think David Gaider commented on this being a possible ending a while back, but I could be wrong.

Modifié par mrao, 20 décembre 2009 - 06:16 .

[MiG-77]

Obadiah wrote...


Uh yes. The Old Gods were the ones who taught the Tevinter Magisters blood magic and allowed them to invade the fade (and kill countless people the fuel their blood magic power). From this example, I'm not sure the Old Gods are any better untainted.

So using same logic, Alfred Nobel was evil person as he did invent dynamite and so helped to lot of people to kill each other...

Magic or Blood Magic is not evil itself. Its the person who uses it wrongly (that is what the chantry is trying to do. Kill "evil mages". Blood mage just is always considered "evil mage"). As the saying goes: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely...

Modifié par MiG-77, 20 décembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[Duck and Cover]

the child isn't tainted. that's what I took from her conversation. She said it wasn't tainted like the darkspawn/archdemon. So my take was this child could grow up good. That was my justification for doing it. He'll be powerful, but no necessarily evil.

[eschilde]

Duck and Cover wrote...

the child isn't tainted. that's what I took from her conversation. She said it wasn't tainted like the darkspawn/archdemon. So my take was this child could grow up good. That was my justification for doing it. He'll be powerful, but no necessarily evil.

She also said it could barely be called a child. That could imply anything, including that it wouldn't know right from wrong, etc.

[robertthebard]

Obadiah wrote...

Imryll wrote...

LynxAQ wrote...

For someone who is obsessed at forcing this ending, you might wanna at least make sure you have correct points. The child as told by Morrigan in game will be born with the Old God soul, but it wouldnt be evil or anything like that. It would be a "normal" child in the sense of wrong and right.

Mmm... my character is at the point of making this decision, and I'm finding it unexpectedly difficult. Could Morrigan possibly be right that the soul of the old god is "worth preserving?"  I seem to recall that the current Archdemon was once the god of beauty. I was so sure that refusing Morrigan would be the obvious choice, but I'm now having a bit of a wonder whether there might not be negative consequences (other than to the Warden and her friends) for destroying Beauty. Morrigan's attempts at persuasion (appealingfirst to pride), make me think no, but there is the possibility that she's trying to get me to do something good for bad reasons.

Uh yes. The Old Gods were the ones who taught the Tevinter Magisters blood magic and allowed them to invade the fade (and kill countless people the fuel their blood magic power). From this example, I'm not sure the Old Gods are any better untainted.

So the sins of the followers are actually caused by the Gods they follow?  Is any religion redeemable then?  After all, more blood is spilled in the name of one god or another than for any other reason.

We don't know why the Old Gods taught what they taught.  We just know they did.  However, simply dismissing a whole religion as evil isn't justified because of what the followers do with those teachings.  If we were to do that, then every modern religion should be considered evil.  Most have owned slaves, or killed people in the name of their God.  The Inquisition and Crusades would be a good example of this.  I see the Chantry actually doing something similar to this with the Exalted March against the Dales.  This is funny, but I can actually see the High Priestess of the Chantry going "LOLRUMAD".  oops, sidetracked.  Anyway, if we condemn a religion as evil based on the actions of some within that religion, the Chantry is no better than the Tevinter Imperium.  They get their Templars strung out on lyrium to keep them.  Isn't this effectively making them slaves?

[robertthebard]

eschilde wrote...

Duck and Cover wrote...

the child isn't tainted. that's what I took from her conversation. She said it wasn't tainted like the darkspawn/archdemon. So my take was this child could grow up good. That was my justification for doing it. He'll be powerful, but no necessarily evil.

She also said it could barely be called a child. That could imply anything, including that it wouldn't know right from wrong, etc.

This is in reference to it's developmental stage, barely conceived, at the time of the slaying of the archdemon, so of course it has no knowledge of right and wrong.  It barely knows that it's supposed to divide itself a hundred billion billion more times to actually begin to look anything like it's going to look when it's born.

[Curlain]

outlaworacle wrote...

multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/02/11/why-dragon-age-isnt-a-trilogy/

They've said next to nothing about the sequel, but what little they have said suggests it will not in any way continue the storylines of the first game. It was not designed that way. I know people love the baby Old God and I could certainly imagine a DLC detaling how that plot resolves for those of us who want it, but in this and a few other articles, developers have stated they have no plans to continue this story. Even if they did, it'd be a slap in the face to anyone who didn't choose that ending, and the idea of playing as the baby Old God in the next game is so cliche if Bioware pulls that... ugh, well, I have faith that they won't resort to such a bad idea. The beauty of this game is it's open ended nature. When you start making endings canon and forcing everyone into one origin, we're talking about backwards growth there.

Spitball all ya want, just wanted to pop in and tell everyone they are wrong lol

The article doesn't actually mean that DA 2 will or will not be a sequel to the first game, it just means that DA is intended to be a franchise with a number of branches.  It is already shaping up this way, with the flashgame, the PnP game and rule-set out, the books Gaider is writing etc, it could be that they intend it to be a franchise for different stories in the same way say Star Wars is a franchise (with many stories and time periods now it that universe, including Bioware's KOTOR and the Old Republic) but of course the main films are still sequels/prequels to each other.  So I don't think we can say whether DA 2 will or will not be a direct sequel to DA atm.

As for the topic of the thread, I could certainly see them writing the story of DA 2 with Morrigan finding a why to gain the Old God soul even if your PC choose to sacrifice themselves, and therefore the PC continues in the fade (since the Archdemon's soul wasn't destroyed neither was yours), however I can't see for sure how this would be able to account for what would happen if Alistair or Loghain took the death blow (unless they appear to the PC somehow in a vision or something.)

That said, I'm not sure it's a good idea, doing it kinda overrides the choices that people made in this game, and personally I think that player choice should be respected as much as possible for the next game (in this respect maybe they will choose to make the game involving completely new and different characters, avoiding any of these problems, though personally I'd miss the characters I've meet in DA )

[Drakron]

ckriley wrote...
 A Grey Warden who breaks the sacred pact and makes a deal with a dark spirit to spare his life and consummate his love in return for a possible greater evil than even an Old God, now growing in the womb of a witch.

Oh you mean the "sacred pact" were ...

THEY DRINK THE BLOOD OF TWISTED CREATURES INTENDED IN COVERING THE WOLD IN DARKNESS 

... so they can gain some of those creatures abilities?

Serious ... are we playing the same game? why people here think the Grey Wardens are anything but a group created out of desperation that taken a very extreme messure that eventually worked out?

Oh yes and THANK YOU for implying people are born evil ... it justifies the killing of babies and genecide as heck, they are born that way and so FREE WILL IS A LIE!

[eschilde]

robertthebard wrote...

This is in reference to it's developmental stage, barely conceived, at the time of the slaying of the archdemon, so of course it has no knowledge of right and wrong.  It barely knows that it's supposed to divide itself a hundred billion billion more times to actually begin to look anything like it's going to look when it's born.

I disagree, the context of getting this answer was when you ask the question of whether or not the child would be harmed, or something. Morrigan pretty much says it won't be a normal baby, but, we knew that, didn't we? In any case, I don't think she was referring to fetus!=baby.

[robertthebard]

Drakron wrote...

ckriley wrote...
 A Grey Warden who breaks the sacred pact and makes a deal with a dark spirit to spare his life and consummate his love in return for a possible greater evil than even an Old God, now growing in the womb of a witch.

Oh you mean the "sacred pact" were ...

THEY DRINK THE BLOOD OF TWISTED CREATURES INTENDED IN COVERING THE WOLD IN DARKNESS 

... so they can gain some of those creatures abilities?

Serious ... are we playing the same game? why people here think the Grey Wardens are anything but a group created out of desperation that taken a very extreme messure that eventually worked out?

Oh yes and THANK YOU for implying people are born evil ... it justifies the killing of babies and genecide as heck, they are born that way and so FREE WILL IS A LIE!

There is a valid point here, really.  We have no lore that tells us that after centuries of research, they decided that drinking darkspawn blood, mixed with the blood of an archdemon would be the ultimate darkspawn killing machines.  Although one wonders how they did come up with the recipie, it's discussed nowhere in game.  All we know for sure is they drank the blood and mastered the taint.  There is no secret handshake, and there is no "Code of Chivalry" type thing for them to follow.  Stop the Blight at all costs.  Whether they do the ritual or not, the blight is stopped, we just have an extra Grey Warden after the fight if they do the ritual.  This is all we know.  Everything else is pure speculation based on supposition.

[robertthebard]

eschilde wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

This is in reference to it's developmental stage, barely conceived, at the time of the slaying of the archdemon, so of course it has no knowledge of right and wrong.  It barely knows that it's supposed to divide itself a hundred billion billion more times to actually begin to look anything like it's going to look when it's born.

I disagree, the context of getting this answer was when you ask the question of whether or not the child would be harmed, or something. Morrigan pretty much says it won't be a normal baby, but, we knew that, didn't we? In any case, I don't think she was referring to fetus!=baby.

Ok, so how can you infer anything but immediately from that?  We do know it's not a normal baby, it's conceived by magic.  So far as we know, it's a soulless husk, waiting for the soul of the Old God.  What information we do have indicates that having a soul means that the Old God would be destroyed, hence Grey Wardens taking the killing blow.  That's the only difference between any of the regular darkspawn and a Grey Warden, and we get this information from Riordan just before we talk to Morrigan.

[Bullets McDeath]

Curlain wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/02/11/why-dragon-age-isnt-a-trilogy/

They've said next to nothing about the sequel, but what little they have said suggests it will not in any way continue the storylines of the first game. It was not designed that way. I know people love the baby Old God and I could certainly imagine a DLC detaling how that plot resolves for those of us who want it, but in this and a few other articles, developers have stated they have no plans to continue this story. Even if they did, it'd be a slap in the face to anyone who didn't choose that ending, and the idea of playing as the baby Old God in the next game is so cliche if Bioware pulls that... ugh, well, I have faith that they won't resort to such a bad idea. The beauty of this game is it's open ended nature. When you start making endings canon and forcing everyone into one origin, we're talking about backwards growth there.

Spitball all ya want, just wanted to pop in and tell everyone they are wrong lol

The article doesn't actually mean that DA 2 will or will not be a sequel to the first game, it just means that DA is intended to be a franchise with a number of branches.  It is already shaping up this way, with the flashgame, the PnP game and rule-set out, the books Gaider is writing etc, it could be that they intend it to be a franchise for different stories in the same way say Star Wars is a franchise (with many stories and time periods now it that universe, including Bioware's KOTOR and the Old Republic) but of course the main films are still sequels/prequels to each other.  So I don't think we can say whether DA 2 will or will not be a direct sequel to DA atm.

As for the topic of the thread, I could certainly see them writing the story of DA 2 with Morrigan finding a why to gain the Old God soul even if your PC choose to sacrifice themselves, and therefore the PC continues in the fade (since the Archdemon's soul wasn't destroyed neither was yours), however I can't see for sure how this would be able to account for what would happen if Alistair or Loghain took the death blow (unless they appear to the PC somehow in a vision or something.)

That said, I'm not sure it's a good idea, doing it kinda overrides the choices that people made in this game, and personally I think that player choice should be respected as much as possible for the next game (in this respect maybe they will choose to make the game involving completely new and different characters, avoiding any of these problems, though personally I'd miss the characters I've meet in DA )

Yeah, that's my main point. Having the devil baby is one thing, but alot of people seem to think we'll be playing as the devil baby, which is not just a terrible idea, but... then you can't play elves or dwarves and even with a bit of variation as to who your daddy is, it's one basically static Origin for all characters. I don't think Bioware would backpedal that far in terms of game design.

[Drakron]

robertthebard wrote...
Although one wonders how they did come up with the recipie, it's discussed nowhere in game.

Well we do know about Mabari hounds, I think their basic idea was the same ...if the hounds could survive the taint and became immune then why the same could not happen to humans?

I guess the other side effects were not expected, they just wanted taint immune soldiers.

[eschilde]

robertthebard wrote...

Ok, so how can you infer anything but immediately from that?  We do know it's not a normal baby, it's conceived by magic.  So far as we know, it's a soulless husk, waiting for the soul of the Old God.  What information we do have indicates that having a soul means that the Old God would be destroyed, hence Grey Wardens taking the killing blow.  That's the only difference between any of the regular darkspawn and a Grey Warden, and we get this information from Riordan just before we talk to Morrigan.

.... yes, it's a husk, which Morrigan does not think will be a proper 'child'; beyond that, we know nothing. I was just saying that just because it's not tainted, doesn't mean you have any idea what it is going to be. Morrigan's not exactly specific on the matter.
I would disagree that the only difference between a Grey Warden and darkspawn is the ability to destroy an Old God.. but in any case I'm not sure what your point there is.

[T0paze]

Yeah, that's my main point. Having the devil baby is one thing, but alot of people seem to think we'll be playing as the devil baby, which is not just a terrible idea, but... then you can't play elves or dwarves and even with a bit of variation as to who your daddy is, it's one basically static Origin for all characters. I don't think Bioware would backpedal that far in terms of game design.

Dragon Age 2 - Back to Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par T0paze, 20 décembre 2009 - 07:03 .