202 réponses à ce sujet

[Dealman]

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.

It's probably something with the AI behavior to prevent Elites from executing you while you're on an elevated position(Above or below them). And thus it becomes hard for those Elites to determine whether they can execute you on those stairs.

Nonetheless, it's a nice find - I sure haven't noticed it before.

[Shoelesscomsonaut]

Dealman wrote...

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.

It's probably something with the AI behavior to prevent Elites from executing you while you're on an elevated position(Above or below them). And thus it becomes hard for those Elites to determine whether they can execute you on those stairs.

Nonetheless, it's a nice find - I sure haven't noticed it before.

True, and I think something like this definitely falls into some grey area. It's not like the missle glitch or the out of map areas on Hydra. I find it more comparable to geth white farming, but if Bioware deems it a punishable offense, then that's their decision and I will do my best to avoid them pesky stairs

As it says in the video, it's not foolproof (my grabs on ramps are now up to two), it works better on a select number of maps and only with a certain set of circumstances (vanguard tanking/solo banshees).

[jfruelas521]

Very useful information. Thanks for sharing. Bump so everyone can see.

[palmof40sorrows]

Hells to the yes. Excellent work OP, excellent work. Will be happy to try this out, as I just promoted all my classes for a fresh start and renewed interest in MP. Thanks so much!

[JayCally80]

There is another helpful bug. If you are in cover like in White down in the campout location, Banshees get stuck on the cover and "hop" up and down. Helped with the endless banshee attacks in platinum.

[Creston918]

Dealman wrote...

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.

It's probably something with the AI behavior to prevent Elites from executing you while you're on an elevated position(Above or below them). And thus it becomes hard for those Elites to determine whether they can execute you on those stairs.

Nonetheless, it's a nice find - I sure haven't noticed it before.

I'll stop exploiting this bug to gain an advantage when Banshees stop exploiting being able to magnetically PULL ME THROUGH A FU..... WALL to sync kill me.

And my faith in Bioware being able to fix the latter issue is approximately 0.01%.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Dealman wrote...

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.

Eh, kind of.  Whether it's a bug, oversight, design flaw, engine limitation, or limitation on animations, I'm not sure it crosses the line into straight up exploit territory.  There are a billion little things like this in ME that work both for and against the player.

Take invisible walls for instance.  There are plenty of places on maps where the actual physics of walls/counters do not map to their graphics.   Therefore you can line up a shot, pull the trigger, and see your bullets harmlessly smattering in thin air.  That's not the enemy exploiting me.  Just a bug.

If there were a tactic that prevented being sync-killed ever, then that crosses the line into exploit territory.  This is more of a fun factoid that might come into play once every few games, or in a solo run. 

I also just fired up a few Gold and Plat runs with my Kroguard.  Good lord he dies easy on Platinum.  I didn't worry about putting any consumables on him, so it's not like he was in Superman mode, but he would still go down relatively easily. 

[CitizenThom]

Dealman wrote...

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.

It's probably something with the AI behavior to prevent Elites from executing you while you're on an elevated position(Above or below them). And thus it becomes hard for those Elites to determine whether they can execute you on those stairs.

Nonetheless, it's a nice find - I sure haven't noticed it before.

Magnet hands is an exploit, so Banshees should be banned. Just sayin'. Likewise with Geth Hunters shooting through Paladin OmniShields, they too should be banned.

[Dealman]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...
Eh, kind of.  Whether it's a bug, oversight, design flaw, engine limitation, or limitation on animations, I'm not sure it crosses the line into straight up exploit territory.  There are a billion little things like this in ME that work both for and against the player.

Take invisible walls for instance.  There are plenty of places on maps where the actual physics of walls/counters do not map to their graphics.   Therefore you can line up a shot, pull the trigger, and see your bullets harmlessly smattering in thin air.  That's not the enemy exploiting me.  Just a bug.

If there were a tactic that prevented being sync-killed ever, then that crosses the line into exploit territory.  This is more of a fun factoid that might come into play once every few games, or in a solo run. 

I also just fired up a few Gold and Plat runs with my Kroguard.  Good lord he dies easy on Platinum.  I didn't worry about putting any consumables on him, so it's not like he was in Superman mode, but he would still go down relatively easily. 

I've never encountered any invisible walls, however, I have noticed that friendly sentry turrets seem to block your shots - even though they're not directly in the path of your bullets. Like if they have a way too big hitbox.

As for the magnet hands, I've encountered this and it's pretty annoying. However, lately I've started to only host my own games instead of joining others, and ever since, I've never encountered this. 

[CitizenThom]

Operation BansheeSlap begins this weekend!

[JoxerNL]

Shoelesscomsonaut wrote...


In the meantime, allow us to bask in banshee humiliation:

This is hilarious!

[BoomDynamite]

bump

[Creston918]

Btw, this is absolutely 100% confirmed. I played tickle wars with a few Banshees and brutes on stairways last night. My team kept screaming "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???!!" at me, which was fun, especially when I never got sync-killed, and eventually someone said "HE MUST BE TEH HAXX0RZ!!!"

That was double fun, because the guy who said it was actually the host. So yeah.

Again, great find, OP.

[Shoelesscomsonaut]

Creston918 wrote...

Btw, this is absolutely 100% confirmed. I played tickle wars with a few Banshees and brutes on stairways last night. My team kept screaming "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???!!" at me, which was fun, especially when I never got sync-killed, and eventually someone said "HE MUST BE TEH HAXX0RZ!!!"

That was double fun, because the guy who said it was actually the host. So yeah.

Again, great find, OP.

I do wonder what other players must think when they see my Krogan headbutting banshees to death, which brings up some interesting questions:

1. Could this be considered exploiting and should it be a punishable offense?
2. Would you report a player you saw performing this?

[Fleetfiend]

... Awesome. Do you know if this works on all consoles?

[Fleetfiend]

Shoelesscomsonaut wrote...


I do wonder what other players must think when they see my Krogan headbutting banshees to death, which brings up some interesting questions:

1. Could this be considered exploiting and should it be a punishable offense?
2. Would you report a player you saw performing this?

Exploiting... maybe. But I wouldn't report someone, largely because it wouldn't be easy to tell they were using a glitch.

[tonnactus]

Shoelesscomsonaut wrote...

1. Could this be considered exploiting and should it be a punishable offense?

Unlike the Rocket Glitch,this doesnt win the game for you. Heavy crossfire from mooks(especially Marauders) could still easily kill players because either charge sometimes dont activate or its just to much damage take and cover is far enough away.

[.458]

It really is a limitation of how the game was intentionally (rocket glitch is not intentional) built I think. I am going to make a guess at something that relates to this...which is pretty ingenious. Have you noticed that when someone is climbing a ladder, even if they are near the top and you are far below, you cannot stand directly under them? It seems that someone decided to do collision of animated objects only on the first two dimensions, which would drastically reduce computation costs. There may be other computations, like triggers in vertical, that break what isn't truly "whether we are close enough together" code. Just a guess.

Modifié par .458, 04 août 2012 - 09:41 .

[Conduit0]

Using AI behavior to your advantage is not cheating/exploiting, its just good strategy. If you called this an exploit, than you'd have to call forcing a phantom to raise shield bubble so you can shoot in the face without returning fire an exploit, or funneling enemies through a chokepoint, or controlling spawn points.

Although this does demostrate just how laughably bad the AI programming really is.

Modifié par Conduit0, 04 août 2012 - 10:28 .

[.458]

Dealman wrote...

Rather obvious to me that it's a bug, and therefore using it becomes an exploit - you're exploiting a bug to gain an advantage you should not.
...
Nonetheless, it's a nice find - I sure haven't noticed it before.

It's a behavior choice of the AI, and the spot being fought at is not a glitch...I really doubt it is ever going to be called a cheat to use higher ground. Would be nice for BW to comment.

[Asebstos]

.458 wrote... It seems that someone decided to do collision of animated objects only on the first two dimensions

Hm... thinking about it... there isn't a map where you can actually be directly above/below anyone is there?

[.458]

Asebstos wrote...

.458 wrote... It seems that someone decided to do collision of animated objects only on the first two dimensions

Hm... thinking about it... there isn't a map where you can actually be directly above/below anyone is there?

Nope...cpu work goes up exponentially with number of objects or dimensions. I'm guessing that is why they did it this way since it isn't a flight sim and true 3D isn't required everywhere. It just seems likely that this is somehow related to the sync kill not being triggered...didn't look like the enemy tried to sync kill and fail, it simply never thought to do it.

[K_Os2]

Asebstos wrote...

.458 wrote... It seems that someone decided to do collision of animated objects only on the first two dimensions

Hm... thinking about it... there isn't a map where you can actually be directly above/below anyone is there?

FB Jade: Spawn, and the underpass beneath it
FB Dagger: Sniper deck, round cargo area below
FB Hydra: little platforms enemies use to jetpack to upper levels
FB Ghost: Enemy spawn containers

Just had a thought, Could you headshot an enemy while standing beneath them if you had enough piercing?

Modifié par K_Os2, 07 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[Narcisico]

To everyone calling this a bug/exploit/flaw/whatever, how do you know that wasn't intended or by design? Realistically the actions performed during a sync kill (animation) is something you couldn't really do without being on even ground.

[Shoelesscomsonaut]

I spoke with mr. Abram on this matter and it is NOT a punishable offense, but they are looking in to it. He did mention that if you can go toe-to-toe with a banshee, then you are free to do so.