112 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

It is game mechanics that the only way to unlock the specialization is by doing the deal with Connor's demon, whereas in "real Thedas life" there are other ways to learn blood magic. And once the specialization is unlocked, you could take blood mage specialization long before you ever encounter Connor's demon. So RP-wise it may not even make sense to say that the Warden "has" to learn blood magic that way.

No, you don't HAVE to learn it from the demon but if that is your price for Connor's soul it is, while still evil in my book, my justifable than just throwing Connor to the wolves for sex. There is nothing even remotely okay with THAT scenario.

[Addai]

maikel1977 wrote...

I dont get that, how can you even try to argue with something that is not in the game ?

It is still part of game lore.

And even if that were true, who wrote those books or generated the knowledge for them ? Whichever way you put it, the knowledge of blood magic originates from demons...period.

Not disputed.  However, once the knowledge is out there in the world, so to speak, why not use it?  Besides the fact that, as I said, the idea of anything related to demons being purely evil is also arbitrary.  Fine if your character is Chantry-steeped, but not absolute truth by any means.  You do realize that many of the codex entries are written from the perspective of Chantry priests and scholars?  They are entitled to their opinion, but it need not be your PC's worldview, and it certainly need not be "the way it is."

Not having access to bloodmagic is a mere presumtion. And an incorrect 1 at that. No wonder they cut that scene

You're assuming they cut it because the lore is "wrong,"  Not an assumption you can make.

Everyone with conscious access to the fade (=any mage) can make deals with demons and learn blood magic.
Thats the sole reason of having templars watching the circle all the time and forcing aprentices to undergo the harrowing.

The sole reason is because the Chantry wants to control the power of the mages.  From the perspective of my mage, that is. 

Modifié par Addai67, 24 mars 2010 - 04:36 .

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

No, you don't HAVE to learn it from the demon but if that is your price for Connor's soul it is, while still evil in my book, my justifable than just throwing Connor to the wolves for sex. There is nothing even remotely okay with THAT scenario.

No question- did someone suggest that?

When I unlocked blood mage, my mage considered it justifiable because by the time the demon came back to Connor, he might have the chance to grow up and learn how to battle it.  She would even help him do so.  It's a shady decision, no question, but dire times call for desperate measures.  The world is going to end and she's the only Warden mage left in Ferelden.  If she keeps throwing spitballs at the darkspawn, as she figures, she is going to die, Connor is going to die, everyone is going to die.

[krylo]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No one knows wether it was the killings itself, the blood or just the vast amount of lyrium which opened that portal. You are taking the mussings of a scholar and stamping it as the truth. For all we know it is the blood resulting from a killing which weakens the veil.

Actually I'm drawing from the world as a whole.

It isn't just blood mages that have caused weakened points and tears in the veil.  It's just logic that dictates it wouldn't take blood magic to make a giant hole.

Particularly when one considers that blood magic is tied to, well, blood, and the fade is more or less the opposite of that.

Blood magic is connected to demons. You can learn this if you read the Scrolls of Banastor. Demonology is the learning of summoning demons and understanding them, blood magic is just drawing power from them (and blood).

The scrolls of banastor talk about becoming an abomination in order to learn blood magic.

However, blood magic, in no way, draws power from demons.  Any abomination will draw power from the demon within (or the mage within, depending on who wins the arm wrestling match for control), regadless of whether they know blood magic.

Your PC didn't become an abomination to learn.

Jowan wasn't an abomination--and it is HEAVILY hinted at that he wasn't even taught by demons.  He was taught by Uldred/the books that Irving confiscated.

And it's a pretty far stretch to say that every single Tevinter mage lord is/was an abomination.

The scrolls of banastor describe a combination of blood magic and demonology.  Not just blood magic.

It doesn't change the fact that blood magic is irrevesibly connected with demons. All other forms of magic can be studied, relatively, safely.

Except blood magic ISN'T irreversibly connected with demons.

krylo wrote...

So just because a few might volunteer it justifies all the wrongs? I don't think any of the elves volunteered when I sacrficed them. Just the simple potential of all the wrongs which can be done with blood magic outweighs all the good.

Yeah, and you know the innocent mages of the tower probably didn't much care for that fireball either.

So obviously ALL magic should be outlawed.

krylo wrote...
That is a matter of opinion. I've always seen manipulation as dishonesty and wrong (it sure got its uses though). If you can't make an opponent see reason (your reason anyway), forcing him to see your reason by frying his mind is just as bad as gutting him.

Blood magic doesn't fry minds.   There's no evidence anywhere in any of the codexes or game lore that when a blood mage withdraws his power that the person he or she controlled is in any way damaged.

[Addai]

Re. learning blood magic from books rather than demons: I'm an idiot. I forgot that there is a whole bit in the mage origin where Irving is locking away the library's books on blood magic. So this notion is NOT only in the blood mage confrontation scene that got left on the cutting room floor.

[Gill Kaiser]

One thing I always wondered about Jowan's solution to the Connor problem... if he needs a whole person's life energy, can't he just take half from two people? Or a third from three people? Someone really wasn't thinking outside the box, here.

[krylo]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

One thing I always wondered about Jowan's solution to the Connor problem... if he needs a whole person's life energy, can't he just take half from two people? Or a third from three people? Someone really wasn't thinking outside the box, here.

I just figure he's too ****ty of a mage to split his attention like that.

[Emerald Melios]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

One thing I always wondered about Jowan's solution to the Connor problem... if he needs a whole person's life energy, can't he just take half from two people? Or a third from three people? Someone really wasn't thinking outside the box, here.

But that entails a way to keep both Isolde and Connor alive without going out of your way against all sensible precautions. We certainly can't have that, not when Alistair is ready to ***** at you when you don't go out of your way to save his adoptive father's immediate family.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

Re. learning blood magic from books rather than demons: I'm an idiot. I forgot that there is a whole bit in the mage origin where Irving is locking away the library's books on blood magic. So this notion is NOT only in the blood mage confrontation scene that got left on the cutting room floor.

For all we know those books teaches you how to contact demons and stay in control, but not the actual blood magic. Just the stepping stone.

Gill Kaiser wrote...

One thing I always wondered about Jowan's solution to the Connor problem... if he needs a whole person's life energy, can't he just take half from two people? Or a third from three people? Someone really wasn't thinking outside the box, here.

Perhaps it is the killing itself which grants the extra power, or perhaps you need unmixed blood for that particular ritual... There are just as many scenarios for why he can't use 2 halves as to why he could.

[DKJaigen]

Blood magic: it's as evil as the person that wields it. However that it is banned is in my opinion a purely practical decision. You simple don't want to have mages running around controlling the mind of kings and emperors

[Sylvius the Mad]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

One thing I always wondered about Jowan's solution to the Connor problem... if he needs a whole person's life energy, can't he just take half from two people? Or a third from three people? Someone really wasn't thinking outside the box, here.

Maybe that's not how life energy works.  Maybe there's an energy spike at the moment of death, so you'd need hundreds of mostly dead people to equal one dead person.  Or maybe it's the death itself that releases the energy all at once, so he has to kill somebody to make the spell work.

We don't know.  Jumping to conclusions serves no one.

[Addai]

[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

Re. learning blood magic from books rather than demons: I'm an idiot. I forgot that there is a whole bit in the mage origin where Irving is locking away the library's books on blood magic. So this notion is NOT only in the blood mage confrontation scene that got left on the cutting room floor.[/quote]
For all we know those books teaches you how to contact demons and stay in control, but not the actual blood magic. Just the stepping stone.
[/quote]
[/quote]
All mages would have to learn that.  I mean, that's what your Harrowing tests.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 mars 2010 - 09:29 .

[Emerald Melios]

DKJaigen wrote...

Blood magic: it's as evil as the person that wields it. However that it is banned is in my opinion a purely practical decision. You simple don't want to have mages running around controlling the mind of kings and emperors

The Chantry isn't about to let anyone take their monopoly on that away.