162 réponses à ce sujet

[FlintlockJazz]

That's a thought. In BG2 you at least had the gate district which, while not having much there, did portray the entrance to a big city. Another thought, they don't let you see vastly different districts, as you only get to see the marketplace and the poor areas (and the Alienage too). We don't get to see much of the noble district, nor anything more than a (tiny) courtyard for what could be argued one of the most important Chantries in the nation, whereas in BG2 we saw the Temple District, Graveyard, Noble's and Poor Districts, amongst others.

[Leather_Rebel90]

I agree 100% with the OP. Denerim was empty. And you can't say that it's because of the Blight. In the Witcher there was a war threatening the world and an elven/dwarf rebellion but there was still people around the streets commenting on the world and such. There's even quests within the city dealing with events going on in the world. There were bands, people dancing, people tending to their gardens, etc. Denerim is just empty... It's something a modder would have made. . In Dragon Age the only merchant that calls you to their shop is Gorim. 

But unfortunatly, the guy who said they removed it just to make us pay for it as DLC later is absolutely right. That is what all of the DLC has been thus far; bits of the original game that was removed in order to charge us more for them.

Please, stop being fanboys and just come to terms with the fact that even a game as great as Dragon Age can have major flaws.

[VanDraegon]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...
 That is what all of the DLC has been thus far; bits of the original game that was removed in order to charge us more for them.
.

Incorrect

[danielkx]

While I really dislike how DLC is being handled in this game, I do not think BioWare removed the atmosphere and liveliness of Denerim just to release it as DLC later. That was simply a design decision, a poor one yes. If Denerim is ever going to get some kind of update to make it feel more like a city, it would almost certainly be included in a free patch, otherwise only the desperate would pay money for it and there would be an uproar from the fanbase.

I agree that there are plenty of aspects in the game that lacks certain things. More variety in armor and weapons, but it is understandable why Denerim is not a lively city.

The game itself would be fun if it wasn't what it is; you going out trying to recruit people to save everyone from the darkspawn. It would have been better if it was more of an adventure, without the feeling of imminent doom. But this was another design decision that I disagree with.

Oh well, hopefully a really good expansion comes out and all of us can get what we want (that won't happen of course).

I dislike the concept of "dark and gritty." It is overrated. ME2 is getting that same treatment, and it is suppose to be more mature and deep, but really it is not. Using that as a design concept greatly limits the game in regards to fun.

Just my factual opinion

Modifié par danielkx, 21 décembre 2009 - 08:38 .

[Bibdy]

Look up. See that blue stuff? That's your atmosphere.

[FlintlockJazz]

danielkx wrote...

The game itself would be fun if it wasn't what it is; you going out trying to recruit people to save everyone from the darkspawn. It would have been better if it was more of an adventure, without the feeling of imminent doom. But this was another design decision that I disagree with.

Oh well, hopefully a really good expansion comes out and all of us can get what we want (that won't happen of course).

I dislike the concept of "dark and gritty." It is overrated. ME2 is getting that same treatment, and it is suppose to be more mature and deep, but really it is not. Using that as a design concept greatly limits the game in regards to fun.

Just my factual opinion

Aye, I feel that way too.  Not so fantastical, such as no resurrection and such like yes, but trying to make everything all dark and moody for the sake of looking all adultified then no.  I personally would have liked a storyline that allowed us to sample more of the world itself instead of dealing with evil horde #1785.

[Allen63]

...error

Modifié par Allen63, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:53 .

[Allen63]

When I started reading the DA forum (not called that) in 2004, Bioware developers posted that they were interested in atmosphere. They talked of having NPCs on daily schdules (like Oblivion provided a couple years later).

However, they also talked about (and argued strongly for) creating no more than the minimum environment needed to "tell the story". Many would-be fans posted they would be disappointed by that (me very much included).

And, Bioware was sold twice in the intervening years -- at a huge price relative to the potential income. I conjecture this impacted how much could be spent on DA -- as DA profits had to be large to justify Bioware's purchase prices.

I think the forgoing factors came together -- and lead to the "minimalist" nature of DA (and ME) that so many fans have commented upon.

Since Bioware is a "big name" developer, it saddens me that they don't put out AAA stuff -- as they are one of the few who could -- and I am selfish enough to want real good games for my money

Modifié par Allen63, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:59 .

[AillannaD]

I guess I'm in a bit of a minority here (at least in this thread) when I say that I quite enjoyed the game even without a lot of added atmosphere. I felt that in all the various locations I visited there was enough to tell the story--as Allen above me has mentioned. Anything more would have been distracting and unwanted, for me at least.

I like to pay attention to my characters and how they perceive the world around them, more than the world itself. So in that way, I can agree that cinematics to introduce the characters' entrances on their first times in difference places would be neat.

Really, though, I was far too engaged with the writing and the story to even want to hang around in the marketplace at Denerim or in Orzammar.

I can't complain too much that it seemed unpolished. In my opinion, nothing in its construction took away from my enjoyment of the game. Any small glitches or details that might have been problematic were small enough in the overall scheme that they didn't hold my attention for long. Admittedly with five years in development, you'd think those little things could be worked out, but again, I loved the game enough that there's just no way I can honestly complain.

[JO2D4N]

Ferelden does not exist on Earth. They are not required to provide us with horses. Horses may not even exist on this world. Of course, I imagine a certain another four legged creature may make its way into these games soon ((wink wink)). Also, what is this talk of minstrels?!?!?!?!?! and chickens?!?!?!?!? This game is far better than Oblivion or Fable and those games had both.........these distractions are not needed.

[Legion-001]

JO2D4N wrote...

Ferelden does not exist on Earth. They are not required to provide us with horses. Horses may not even exist on this world. Of course, I imagine a certain another four legged creature may make its way into these games soon ((wink wink)). Also, what is this talk of minstrels?!?!?!?!?! and chickens?!?!?!?!? This game is far better than Oblivion or Fable and those games had both.........these distractions are not needed.

I strongly suggest you play the Dalish elf origin and talk to the Animal keeper, she mentions how Humans treat HORSES, so I can only assume that they do actually exist somewhere in Ferelden.
As for minstrels and chickens (and other types of wildlife) these are not merely distractions but are additions in order to create a detailed living world that actually looks and feels real as opposed to Denerim which looks & plays like something a small group of modders slapped together in a week.
This game bug wise and detail wise is looking more and more like an Alpha release, I would say it was similar to Gothic 3 but they at least had finished their world, they just hadn't bothered to test it.

[JO2D4N]

Legion-001 wrote...

JO2D4N wrote...

Ferelden does not exist on Earth. They are not required to provide us with horses. Horses may not even exist on this world. Of course, I imagine a certain another four legged creature may make its way into these games soon ((wink wink)). Also, what is this talk of minstrels?!?!?!?!?! and chickens?!?!?!?!? This game is far better than Oblivion or Fable and those games had both.........these distractions are not needed.

I strongly suggest you play the Dalish elf origin and talk to the Animal keeper, she mentions how Humans treat HORSES, so I can only assume that they do actually exist somewhere in Ferelden.
As for minstrels and chickens (and other types of wildlife) these are not merely distractions but are additions in order to create a detailed living world that actually looks and feels real as opposed to Denerim which looks & plays like something a small group of modders slapped together in a week.
This game bug wise and detail wise is looking more and more like an Alpha release, I would say it was similar to Gothic 3 but they at least had finished their world, they just hadn't bothered to test it.

Sounds to me like your nitpicking. I've not had any bugs in my playthrough. And detail wise, it is a fantastic looking game. I think you're just dissapointed because you don't understand the new engine or the graphical style with which this game presents itself. But if you insist you see "Alpha" written all over this game then I will allow you to mire in your unhappiness. I, myself, will be going back to Denerim again and again and I won't even be thinking about jester's and chickens.

as for the horses......... wouldn't you rather see Griffons?!?!?

[dan107]

I agree with the OP. The entire world just has a very static feel to it. Come to think of it, I don't recall a single instance of NPCs moving about outside a scripted cutscene. In The Witcher, they all move around according to their own schedule. Even in Jade Empire, the capital city has a bunch of unnamed NPCs just milling about which creates the illusion of a bustling city. DA, on the other hand, has practically no ambiance.

[rmp]

Yup. And the number of nameless NPCs always standing rooted to one spot outnumbers the ones moving around.

[Legion-001]

JO2D4N wrote...

Sounds to me like your nitpicking. I've not had any bugs in my playthrough. And detail wise, it is a fantastic looking game. I think you're just dissapointed because you don't understand the new engine or the graphical style with which this game presents itself. But if you insist you see "Alpha" written all over this game then I will allow you to mire in your unhappiness. I, myself, will be going back to Denerim again and again and I won't even be thinking about jester's and chickens.

as for the horses......... wouldn't you rather see Griffons?!?!?

DA:O presents itself as an Alpha game, and believe me being a professional beta tester I KNOW what an Alpha game looks like, the game is lifeless and as dan107 said above me 'I don't recall a single instance of NPCs moving about outside a scripted cutscene.' which is true they don't move at all, no-one LIVES in Denerim they merely occupy it.

Would I rather see Griffons instead of horses?, personally I'd rather see some LIFE in the game.

[T0paze]

I think atmosphere consists of things that don't serve any particular purpose.
If you're using them, they're part of gameplay, not atmosphere.
So, that florist in the Denerim Market District, for example, is part of the atmosphere, as well as the two priests with funny dialogs. Unfortunately, they are more like expections.

Modifié par T0paze, 24 décembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[ginzaen]

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

most of the people are supposedly grieving the lost of all the dead in loitering so probably why the atmosphere is like it is.

Modifié par ginzaen, 24 décembre 2009 - 02:01 .

[Legion-001]

ginzaen wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

most of the people are supposedly grieving the lost of all the dead in loitering so probably why the atmosphere is like it is.

Neverwinter in NWN had more life in it and that city was suffering a terrible plague.

Modifié par Legion-001, 24 décembre 2009 - 02:13 .

[dan107]

Legion-001 wrote...

ginzaen wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

most of the people are supposedly grieving the lost of all the dead in loitering so probably why the atmosphere is like it is.

Neverwinter in NWN had more life in it and that city was suffering a terrible plague.

Even Ostagar felt more alive than Denerim. There was a messenger running around, the Chantry priest giving a sermon, it was possible to walk in on two NPCs having a conversation -- there was at least SOME semblance of activity.

I thought that the level of polish really went downhill after Ostagar though. IMO DA was WAY too big, and that size came at the expense of depth and detail.

[Legion-001]

Didn't in the Baldur's gate series and that was bigger then DA:O.

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

Most of the men of Denerim died at the battle of Ostegar just so you know. All the elite troops of Loghain's are in the palace area.

[Celuwen]

I did expect Denerim to be a little bigger and more full of life as that's where everyone was off to if they left another place after I'd helped them. I expected to arrive to find friends who'd let me sleep on their floor and provide some tasty gruel.

[Legion-001]

Dahelia wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

Most of the men of Denerim died at the battle of Ostegar just so you know. All the elite troops of Loghain's are in the palace area.

Most of the men of Denerim died at the bettle of Ostegar?... And the women are where?, starving to death in their homes I would assume since none of them are ever seen doing shopping, and what about the MEN of other races surely there are more then ten or twenty city elves in all of Denerim... Where are they?, and you mean to tell me that Loghain's army that judging by the mount of torches being carried and how many are carrying them must number in the thousands are all staying in the Palace?

EDIT - as described above... Where are all of the refugees that you help to escape from various places?

Modifié par Legion-001, 24 décembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

Sylixe wrote...

So basically you wanted a party in the street? Even though there was a blight on the way to crush the city into dust.

I believe the OP was looking more for signs that people are actually LIVING in the city, like people wandering around doing shopping, minstrels trying to cheer people up, other adventuring parties would be nice and some animals... Has anyone EVER seen a horse in this game?

Some signs of life would be nice in this game.

Most of the men of Denerim died at the battle of Ostegar just so you know. All the elite troops of Loghain's are in the palace area.

Most of the men of Denerim died at the bettle of Ostegar?... And the women are where?, starving to death in their homes I would assume since none of them are ever seen doing shopping, and what about the MEN of other races surely there are more then ten or twenty city elves in all of Denerim... Where are they?, and you mean to tell me that Loghain's army that judging by the mount of torches being carried and how many are carrying them must number in the thousands are all staying in the Palace?

EDIT - as described above... Where are all of the refugees that you help to escape from various places?

You mean like the women you actually do see out there? And also, the market place in the center is actually where you buy armor and things...food on the other hand is done by people who walk EARLY morning...milkman, meat, etc....are actually sold by walking vendors, didn't you learn this in history class??? And they do live in the castle, there are houses in the castle...where the men live...when you become a soldier of the castle, you move to the castle, to a house outside the castle. Also, with the fear of the blight and the belief that the elves are carrying some sort of plague...most people do stay in their houses with the belief that it protects them. Most in that day an age, died in their houses and were not found for days when they started to smell.

As for the refugess are with family in OTHER parts of Denerim and not just the market place....

[FlintlockJazz]

Legion-001 wrote...

Didn't in the Baldur's gate series and that was bigger then DA:O.

I think this is the problem though.  Baldur's Gate was an older game, which meant that it had inferior graphics, which ironically meant that they had more time to give it depth and size.  As games have gotten more advanced the cost and time required has shot up, as more detailed textures means more work needs to be done to make these detailed textures, which takes it away from everything else.  This is why I am no longer keen on seeing 'leet graphix' nowadays, since I feel the pursuit of ever more realistic looks is detracting away from other aspects of the game.  No to say I want the game to look bad, but good enough is good enough for me.  Of course, I'm not just talking graphics here but with all of the advancements that have been made in gaming.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 25 décembre 2009 - 01:00 .