162 réponses à ce sujet

[Romeriez Galenar]

VanDraegon wrote...

Because you didnt like it it has to be lazy unfinished work? Well, the numbers are against you, unfortunately for you.

Firstly, I never said I didn't like Dragon's Age. 

Second, I didn't specifically state it was "Lazy, unfinished work."

What I said was, Let's not let game developers (as in ALL GAME DEVELOPERS NOT JUST BIOWARE) think they can ship a game out early and sell the finishing touches/patches as DLC.  That's a dangerous slippery slope there in my opinion.  Who doesn't want more content for a good game?  At the same time I do not want to pay for things that should be part of the core game.

Learn to read m'kay?

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

The castles do and did even support that many  troops in that day and age....okay? History class....and Bioware was influenced by the mideval age of England and other places. They have even stated this and you can see that it is based upon this. It is not laziness to follow what they were influenced by. Also, when you are at camp it is extremely late and takes anywhere from weeks to months to walk from place to place.

And I do wish to correct you...it is fantasy but based upon the mideval era...Which I happen to know a lot about..

Then you must surely know that even the LARGEST multi-tiered concentrically build castle could only support at most several thousand PEOPLE, which means civilians (which are required to support the troops) too and the castle at Denerim is NOT a massive multi-tiered concentrically build castle, so I say again... Where are all the troops?
If most of the troops were in the city and/or the city was the Castle I could believe it.

JO2D4N wrote...

So, you'd rather see life in this game, huh? I'd be happy to point a few things out to you in hopes that you understand there is tremendous life in this game:

1. Notice the sound in this game? Can you hear the birds? The music? The bustle? Do you really need to see it for it to be there? This is one instance where I find you newer gamers to be nothing short of spoilt. For the Makers sake, use your imagination a bit. Suspend disbelief.

2. NPC's moving about? Don't know about you, but I have played the Lion's share of RPG's out there. You name 'em, I've played them. One thing that seems to remain true throughout this genre, including games like Mass Effect and the coveted Oblivion, is that the NPC's (especially those that are tied to a purpose within the game)remain fixed so you can locate them easily and without frustration. I take it you didn't see the children playing in Denerim, the sick elves in the Alienage, the Peasants at Lothering or the maids and cooks in the Palace? If not, I would have to cite you for forgetfulness or general ignorance.

3. The dialogue scenes alone weave a dramatic story filled to the brim with history, humor, disbelief, surprise and excitement. If this alone does not pull you into the life of this finely imagined world then I'm not sure I understand you as a person, which is fine.

4. Look back at your previous RPG's and I am sure you will be reminded that this game is not all that different. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this game is revolutionary in its approach to decision making and story and if you don't see that then you're either fifteen years old or a pessimist. I'm wagering on both.

1. Yes it's nice to hear the merchants shouting out their wares to the various and numerous people who come to trade with them, and to hear all of the thousands of soldiers that Dahelia is convinced are in the castle... Oh wait you don't hear them because the merchants are NEVER visited by anyone other than the player and the thousands of soldiers are mysteriously invisible.

2. In OBLIVION EVERYONE with VERY few exceptions at least moves about the town in which their in, sure sometimes they'll go to a place where they can be found easily but mostly they wander about, get some food, do some shopping, talk to the merchants and their friends, which at least presents the illusion of a living world... I've said it before and I'll say it again OSTEGAR has more people in it then any district of Denerim and actually slows down LESS than Denerim itself, all of the districts of Denerim could fit into Ostegar and there'd still be room to spare which is one of the things (which others agree with BTW) that leads me to the conclusion that this game isn't completed (The actually detail of the various areas rapidly drops away after Ostegar).

3. I think you need to look beyond the thin vaneer of 'intricacy' that this game presents and notice that the story is very poorly woven together, most of the quests in the game both large and small have little or no long term consequences and many don't even have short term consequences, most of the quests in this game are dead-ended story wise, and the less said about the Sidetasks (not quests, tasks) the better.

4. This game is VERY different to Arx Fatalis (decent game mechanics, and an easily explainable absence of people for much of the game), Oblivion (a living world... Boring but living none-the-less), Baldur's Gate (An old game but still good), Baldur's Gate 2 (Still a King of RPGs, a Massive story, balanced play mechanics, numerous NPCs plus wildlife, merchants shouting their wares in all market places, the ability to kill almost anyone, action and consequence, massive sidequests and thankfully few fetch and carry tasks), Planescape torment (An excellent RPG which is far too detailed to fully go into, although the only gripe I have with this is the magic system), Icewind dale (On it's own is better than Baldur's Gate and DA:O), Icewind Dale 2 (An RPG that actually makes you feel as if you really ARE in a war, numerous enemies and an excellent story with a few novel twists thrown in although the sidequests are fewer in number then BG2 there are still a few good ones that can have consequence far down the line)... Shall I go on?

Oh and you've lost the wager on both counts, I was a tester of various software programs before the first elite even came out, and I've even played a ZX-81 (If you can call it playing) and I have never been described as overly pessimistic, I just want in games today what RPGs have been offering to people for over a decade... Completeness.

Ostagar was excellent there were MANY people, guard patrols, even an elf carrying stuff around, the fortress is MASSIVE (now if the castle in Denerim was as big as Ostegar I could believe it supporting thousands) and very detailed, shame we don't get to enter the massive battle that goes on though.

I guess there is no arguing with someone who hasn't beat the game to even see the Castle of Denerim anyways. Beat the game then come back and argue to me about that...okay?

[Dahelia]

Romeriez Galenar wrote...

VanDraegon wrote...

Because you didnt like it it has to be lazy unfinished work? Well, the numbers are against you, unfortunately for you.

Firstly, I never said I didn't like Dragon's Age. 

Second, I didn't specifically state it was "Lazy, unfinished work."

What I said was, Let's not let game developers (as in ALL GAME DEVELOPERS NOT JUST BIOWARE) think they can ship a game out early and sell the finishing touches/patches as DLC.  That's a dangerous slippery slope there in my opinion.  Who doesn't want more content for a good game?  At the same time I do not want to pay for things that should be part of the core game.

Learn to read m'kay?

Then get off your butt and make a game yourself...let's see how well you do.

[Legion-001]

Dahelia wrote...

I guess there is no arguing with someone who hasn't beat the game to even see the Castle of Denerim anyways. Beat the game then come back and argue to me about that...okay?

Have you ever actually seen a concentrically built castle? it would be about half the size of the ENTIRE city of Denerim and some even housed villages within their walls.

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

I guess there is no arguing with someone who hasn't beat the game to even see the Castle of Denerim anyways. Beat the game then come back and argue to me about that...okay?

Have you ever actually seen a concentrically built castle? it would be about half the size of the ENTIRE city of Denerim and some even housed villages within their walls.

Yeah I have. I have also beat the game and see the inside of the walls of the Castle in Denerim and the Arl's place...seeing housing there for the troops. Even the Human Noble Origin shows the same.

[Legion-001]

Housing for several hundred sure, maybe a thousand at a pinch, but Several thousand? NO CHANCE.

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Housing for several hundred sure, maybe a thousand at a pinch, but Several thousand? NO CHANCE.

Yeah there is a chance because the area surrounding the castle is also behind the gate....

[Legion-001]

Do you fully understand how much space several thousand people (not soldiers) require?

As I've said before only the largest concentrically built castles could support several thousand people and a castle of this size would take up half of Denerim.

[Dahelia]

Legion-001 wrote...

Do you fully understand how much space several thousand people (not soldiers) require?
As I've said before only the largest concentrically built castles could support several thousand people and a castle of this size would take up half of Denerim.

Do you realize that it is not just modern times that they have buking....where many men share a room. It is how disease spread so fast in the mideval era...

[Dahelia]

Fandango9641 wrote...

There are a fair few here that seem to have a little too much invested in defending DAO against each and every charge, and frankly it’s more than a little embarrassing. Lets be clear here people; the game is great but it does suffer from a lack of polish that really grates at times. Getting back on topic, the sparsely populated towns and cities were a little disappointing for me also - not game breaking by any means, just indicative of a general lack of production value.

I'm not defending, I am actually explaining the history value and references behind the game...come on now. Let's also think about this, many people could of freaked out the game...just like Shale did.

[team56th]

Criticizing something not really important is embarrassing as well. Denerim is just a big city, what are some ppl expecting. There are those places like Mage tower that has built very creepy atmosphere because it's meant to look like one. It isn't perfect since meatbag from abominations look just odd, but at least it feels creepy. Denerim on the other hand has no exact characteristic.

Modifié par team56th, 26 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[SeanMurphy2]

I don't think the game is unpolished. Bioware games don't usually have huge crowds of people in each area. Or npcs with schedules.

I think there is around 60 people in the outdoor area of Denerim marketplace.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 26 décembre 2009 - 01:59 .

[Wompoo]

The OP is correct, the market place and many other areas of the game feel lifeless, textures are bland and washed out (many of them quite poorly done). The modeling is good mostly. The story is very good although it lacks real closure... the Origins and main story. The sky is blotchy and I gagged at some of the low poly models of the game, feels more like a console release not a PC game. Baldurs Gate 2 oozed life, as did the Witcher (and the Witcher used this engine). As far as I am concerned they are riding on the back of their writers, without whom they would be a very very average game maker, they have one strength and one strength only, writing.

[OnlineSucks]

Maeves_Child wrote...

Blue Soul wrote...

Maeves_Child wrote...

I have to disagree. DA is like a painting. Just because there aren't things you personally like in the painting, doesn't mean it isn't as it was intended to be.

Say I make a painting of a woman. And then you tell me it's unfinished because she has a crooked nose and no visible cleavage.

I say I like crooked noses. You argue that I can't possibly like that and so naturally, I did it to ****** you off.

The logic sucks.

No...
That's a bad analogy.

Baldur's Gate is to a painting, as DA is to a sculpture.
It’s like getting an artist to paint a room (+ items in that room) and a sculptor to sculpt a room in the same time frame.
If both are experts in their fields, the painter draw a much larger room, whereas the sculptor has to create a smaller room in order to fit in the same time frame (assuming he/she wants the same item:space ratio as the painter).
I’m not saying which is worst, both have different pros and cons.

As others have mentioned, the reason Denerim doesn’t feel as lively as eg. Athkatla, or as large, is due to limitations of the engine. DA just can’t a large number of 3D objects.
I don’t think it’s possible to add more things into Denerim without increasing the system requirements (more and more CPU).
Unfortunately, some could say that's just a poor excuse for what we see, but that's just the way things are.

You missed my point.

But hey, if you guys don't like the game, then don't play it.

Although I must admit, I'm not sure why you'd waste the time posting in a Dragon Age forum just to complain and do nothing about it.  It was mentioned before, but the game does have a toolset.  You don't like it?  Fix it.

Heh, so your only response to being proven wrong is to act like a **** and throw a tantrum? Why don't you take your own advice and not post here if you can't handle other peoples opinions?

[OnlineSucks]

Oh and also, to call this game a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2? Okay, well, equally true is that Uwe Boll's "Dungeon Siege: In the name of the King" is a beautiful spiritual successor to Peter Jacksons Lord of the Rings trilogy

[TheMadCat]

Yeah, interesting discussion but not something I'd really consider sticky-worthy. Maybe one of the mods/devs had a bit to much eggnog.

[SeanMurphy2]

It could be an accidental click by a mod.

Or they might be looking for specific feedback on the topic. Whether it is location atmosphere in DA:O generally. Or in the future might consider adding another district for Denerim. (This is only my speculation)

I think a Denerim district dlc would be good value. I find myself returning to Denerim a lot during the game. Though I don't know type of district it should be or what it should contain.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 26 décembre 2009 - 03:46 .

[Dahelia]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

There are a fair few here that seem to have a little too much invested in defending DAO against each and every charge, and frankly it’s more than a little embarrassing. Lets be clear here people; the game is great but it does suffer from a lack of polish that really grates at times. Getting back on topic, the sparsely populated towns and cities were a little disappointing for me also - not game breaking by any means, just indicative of a general lack of production value.

I'm not defending, I am actually explaining the history value and references behind the game...come on now. Let's also think about this, many people could of freaked out the game...just like Shale did.

Sorry to say but your contributions to this particular thread smack more of DAO apologist than history major. Factoring in irrelevancies is not a good way of persuading reasonable people of anything and it’s a fact that the sparsely populated towns and cities of DAO do not sit well with many (myself included). Again, it’s a fantastic game but not a game without problems.

Well, sorry that you think that. I know there are problems with the game but to sit here and complain without thinking of the history behind it...is utterly stupid..with the Blight, the fear of an Elven Plague, most men have died during the battle, others are in other parts of city. Also the VERY CONCEPT that it could very well bug the heck out of the game like Shale was going to be...people don't seem to understand that they do things for a reason, whether it be because it is better that way or bug the game...If everyone has a problem, create a mod, make your own game, see how it ACTUALLY works...and how MANY concepts are thrown out the window for the mere fact IT WILL NOT WORK WITH THE GAME.

[PanosSmirnakos]

I fully agree that DAO is not so atmospheric when it comes to cities/towns/villages. Only Orzammar and Ostagar have that epic feel and artwork, at least for me. Denerim doesn't look like the almighty capital of a powerful kingdom I expected to see. Maybe they ruined it when they seperated into different small areas with tons of loading screens between them. DAO's strongest point isn't of course the atmo, especially comparing it with other modern rpgs, like Witcher as many ppl already mentioned. DAO has other virtues though.

[X2-Elijah]

Well, in case if mods/devs really are looking into this, here is the thing:



Denerim is not believeable to be a real city. For immersion, the game environment has to be accurate enough for the player to believe that such one, taken directly to real life, would 'work'.



For that, there have to be little things like random people browsing the market stalls, guards going to and fro', merchants really peddling their wares.



In Denerim now, everything is still, lifeless. the merchants just stand at their stalls quietly. the guards are non-existent or live on one spot. There is no-one who could go to the church or buy wares besides the player (no townsfolk). The size is far too small for a capital city.



The problem is, Denerim is not a city, but a representation of one. And in RPGs, we don't want a representation, we want a city.

[Dahelia]

X2-Elijah wrote...

Well, in case if mods/devs really are looking into this, here is the thing:

Denerim is not believeable to be a real city. For immersion, the game environment has to be accurate enough for the player to believe that such one, taken directly to real life, would 'work'.

For that, there have to be little things like random people browsing the market stalls, guards going to and fro', merchants really peddling their wares.

In Denerim now, everything is still, lifeless. the merchants just stand at their stalls quietly. the guards are non-existent or live on one spot. There is no-one who could go to the church or buy wares besides the player (no townsfolk). The size is far too small for a capital city.

The problem is, Denerim is not a city, but a representation of one. And in RPGs, we don't want a representation, we want a city.

So....for all this are you willing to have maybe some game crashes and maybe even longer loading times?

[badtim]

yes, i agree, there should be 8,432 fully rendered 100k+ poly NPCs, each with extensive dialogue trees and unique voices, not to mention elaborate familial relationships and political interactions, in each area. in fact, in denerim, you should be able to smell refuse in the streets and start a guild of brass candlestick makers and become mayor and lead a civil rights march for the elves with custom banners and twitter integration and and and, oh we need more rubber duckies. in any color you want.

[Dahelia]

badtim wrote...

yes, i agree, there should be 8,432 fully rendered 100k+ poly NPCs, each with extensive dialogue trees and unique voices, not to mention elaborate familial relationships and political interactions, in each area. in fact, in denerim, you should be able to smell refuse in the streets and start a guild of brass candlestick makers and become mayor and lead a civil rights march for the elves with custom banners and twitter integration and and and, oh we need more rubber duckies. in any color you want.

Holy smokes XD Imagine that!