162 réponses à ce sujet

[X2-Elijah]

Okay, let's assume that 'more immersive Denerim' was not possible due to engine / tech / time issues.

Why is it touted to be a large capital city in the lore then?
Actually, yes, Denerim would be fine if it were supposed to be a small settlement. The disappointment comes when you expect something magnificent and get much less.If the devs knew that they could not make a large city with " 8,432 fully rendered 100k+ poly NPCs" (side-note - sarcasm does not make you look smart nor funny), why did they bother? They easily could have turned Denerim into one of the small Ferelden cities, place where the king's coronation ocurs due to historical reasons, where he comes to visit at times, etc. They could have set Denerim up in the lore as a medium city, and the game would have delivered a fitting alternative.

What I mean is, don't jump over you head. Do what you can do, and don't promise what isn't there.

Modifié par X2-Elijah, 26 décembre 2009 - 06:13 .

[Devil Keyz]

I rather like Denerim, what would upgrading the atmosphere REALLY achieve? Really? think about that.. Something thats pretty to look at, but your going to be spending most your time in the castle and other places... this is fable or oblivion you know.

[Rostas7]

Umm,besides all the character immersion and complex interactions,I still think DA could have done better at the design department and maybe add a bit more realism to the game ,with the crowds in Denerim selling wares,or maybe some hookers here and there,bandits smuggling goods,beggars,maybe some birds here and there for Shale to stomp on.Imagine all that,I'm guessing some of you would jump at me saying "Well ,Rostas,this is not the Witcher" .Well,at least Witcher didn't lack in the design department and immersion,but it's lack was that of the linear kind of world.No traveling where you want on the map,no markers ,just...a map. DA:O is another kind of fish,it's more pampered,and I'm guessing EA has something to do with that. Still,DA is awesome,hope I will see major improvements in a year span xD. Or maybe I'm too optimistic.



P.S:Awaiting "Hey Rostas,If you like complaining about DA this much go play Witcher or something !".In due time my lads,In due time.

[Greyshaft1]

I must agree with Andyr1986 it the lack of scale to the city that spoils the over all feel of it. Oh theres some nice touches but lacks life and depth both Lothering and Redcliffe had a fuller feeeling to them.



Over all I love the game but have to admit there are a few things that could have been better. Certain areas in the game seem to have more ambience than others and others use clever naration - such as the brood mother - to create the feel of the place.

[MOTpoetryION]

atmosphere is where it always is ,in the sky

[TheRealIncarnal]

The atmosphere is interesting, I must admit I find the atmosphere of Denerim lacking compared to Orzamar. Denerim does not feel like a big city, and it doesn't feel bustling or even particularly populated. Honestly, until the end of the game Denerim hardly felt bigger than Lothering or Redcliffe.

I'm not sure how it would be practically fixed though, as this is a problem that many games face. I'd suggest just larger areas to walk though, instead of just the travel map, and more people in the streets. Kind of like Orzamar actually. The fact that I didn't have to switch to the travel map to go from Dust Town to the Commons, Provings, and the Diamond Quarter, not to mention the other buildings in the city, combined with the extra people in the streets makes Orzamar feel much larger to me than Denerim. 

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 26 décembre 2009 - 02:06 .

[dragon_83]

I have the same problem with Denerim like many others. I wasn't expecting a huge "metropolis" like Baldur's Gate or Athlatka, but Denerim can not compete even with Neverwinter. My main issue is not the lack of people in the districts, but the lack of detailed districts at all. When I first saw the city map, I was happy to see a lot of district icons. But it turned out that some of them only represents one (!) house (the brothel), or a short street with no life in it (back alleys). Since the game loads between districts anyway (so it is not the engine limitation), I don't know why didn't Bioware make more interesting places in the city.



That said, I love every moment of the games, but come on Bioware, we would like bigger cities.

[Rostas7]

Devil Keyz wrote...

I rather like Denerim, what would upgrading the atmosphere REALLY achieve? Really? think about that.. Something thats pretty to look at, but your going to be spending most your time in the castle and other places... this is fable or oblivion you know.

No,my friend,it's called "Improvement" . And that's where DA lacks right now.

[yodasmith00]

Just play the game.

[AiyanaLindari]

Yes, Denerim does lack atmosphere.There is no feeling of the hustle and bustle of a city. Part of the problem is that it is all divided up and each individual area is small. Being able to walk to the Pearl or other areas would have gone a long way to making Denerim feel larger. More people would have been nice too, inside and outside the shops. I was completely expecting the marketplace to have as many people as Ostagar had earlier in the game.

A lot of atmosphere can be created simply with the use of sound, whether it is footsteps, the clanging of items, music or the hum of a crowd. Denerim lacks this also.

[Rolenka]

Why is this thread stickied?

[SeanMurphy2]

I think each city needs a story and situation happening. Lothering has the refugees. Orzammer has the political contest happening. Redcliffe a siege. Maybe Denerim could have had a few phases over time.

1) Mourning and hostility towards the Grey Wardens.
2) Authoritarian crackdown by Arl. Guards on the streets. People being bullied.
3) Refugees pouring in, food shortages as farms are lost and trade is affected,
4) Dissent, disorder and chaos. You might help some outlawed nobles hiding out.
5)  Influx of nobles and their retinue from faraway provinces.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 26 décembre 2009 - 04:18 .

[Rolenka]

Bio-Boy 3000 wrote...

Rolenka wrote...

Why is this thread stickied?

It was mentioned a page back that this could be stickied to gather information on what people liked and disliked about Denerim specifically for developers. I had forgotten that they have done this in the past with other areas of interest for them to gather feedback for.

Oh. Then it really needs a Bioware post in it so the logo shows up. And a "jump to Bioware post" button, but I guess they're working on that.

In that case my main problem with Denerim was that I went there first (at Morrigan's suggestion) thinking there would be some sort of plot quest I could finish. Sort of like how there is on every planet in KOTOR, which you can do in any order you choose.  I ran around and around and around doing what side quests I could before realizing none of them were tied to the plot.

Mind you, most of the quests I got could not be completed at that stage of the game. Another annoyance.

[JO2D4N]

T0paze wrote...

I don't think Dragon Age is really different from other Bioware games in this aspect.

Bioware does make good or even excellent games, but when it comes ot lively environments, they either suck miserably or, which is more probable, do not even bother trying. The only difference between Baldur's Gate (the city) and Denerim is that Baldur's Gate was larger. Otherwise, it's the same sad story about completely static NPCs. Come to think of it, Dragon Age doesn't even have the day/night cycle and real weather - what can you expect from a game that lack something as simple as that?

If you want to have something more lively, try the Gothic series, Fallout 3 or the Witcher. As a matter of fact, even Oblivion is better.

Call me crazy or silly but I thoroughly enjoyed the fact that there was no day/night cycle. For me, it represented a focus on the gameplay rather than inconsequential details that have no impact on the game whatsoever. It harkens back to the days of yore when we were playing Phantasy Star, Y's and Shining Force. This game supposes itself to be a gift to all the older gamers out there and it supposes this well. I was also overjoyed that the developer's chose to rid this game of equipment and weapon damage as I have always felt this aspect of games to be a time waster that, again, has no direct impact on the story itself. Although, I will say that Fallout 3 created an acceptable, if not still frustrating, method in handling this feature. Of course, we would all like to see a real, breathing world that is much like our own but let's be "realistic", it is the story and the wealth of dungeons and adventures that matter more. Simply look at the (illustrious) Assassin's Creed Series, beautiful game with hundreds of on-screen characters but really just a smokescreen for how utterly simple and unchallenging the game is. I sincerely hope that Bioware sticks closely to their current formula, because I have a notion that what this game lacks in horses, bustling cities and chickens, more than makes up for with a challenging and engrossing game.

[Dahelia]

X2-Elijah wrote...

Okay, let's assume that 'more immersive Denerim' was not possible due to engine / tech / time issues.

Why is it touted to be a large capital city in the lore then?
Actually, yes, Denerim would be fine if it were supposed to be a small settlement. The disappointment comes when you expect something magnificent and get much less.If the devs knew that they could not make a large city with " 8,432 fully rendered 100k+ poly NPCs" (side-note - sarcasm does not make you look smart nor funny), why did they bother? They easily could have turned Denerim into one of the small Ferelden cities, place where the king's coronation ocurs due to historical reasons, where he comes to visit at times, etc. They could have set Denerim up in the lore as a medium city, and the game would have delivered a fitting alternative.

What I mean is, don't jump over you head. Do what you can do, and don't promise what isn't there.

As I explained before Denerim, most men died...other men are in the castle, if you even look at the city map...it is LARGE...like a small city. People are in their homes with the fear of the blight and the elven plague. Also, it is better this way because of the programming, if you do not understand this. I'll try to explain. Many people could cause the game to crash because it is more convos, more people moving, more people in general, it would also create(if no crashing) longer loading time, you know that thing everyone hates, the spinning little celtic knot? Yeah, you'd be there longer because it would have to load more people, more convos, more of something. I mean, come one, Shale was suppose to be HUGE, like 10 feet tall, not the size of a large human...but they cut her down because she freaked out the game. Look at her concept art, she was just like a Golem but as I said before...not all concepts can make it into a game for the mere fact that the game can't handle it or other things.
I never expected to see Denerim hussling and bussling because of the mere fact I knew most of the men and even women were at Ostegar and died with the King.

[Pseron Wyrd]

I don't believe it has anything to do with system requirements at all.

Bioware are storytellers. A good storyteller will not include a detail if it does not serve the story. A good storyteller will offer exactly the information needed to enjoy the story and no more.

The art of storytelling is the art of exclusion.

Crowds in Denerim are not needed to tell the story so they are not included.

Modifié par Pseron Wyrd, 26 décembre 2009 - 05:15 .

[Dahelia]

Pseron Wyrd wrote...

I don't believe it has anything to do with system requirements at all.

Bioware are storytellers. A good storyteller will not include a detail if it does not serve the story. A good storyteller will offer exactly the information needed to enjoy the story and no more.

The art of storytelling is the art of exclusion.

Crowds in Denerim are not needed to tell the story so they are not included.

Oh really never gave that a thought...but that is right.

[Legion-001]

Argument wise? Up a certain creek without a paddle.

Modifié par Legion-001, 26 décembre 2009 - 07:20 .