392 réponses à ce sujet

[luzburg]

oh oh, i was military once, i know there is a biritish soldier in the london FOB that salutes handed. how you salutes is very strict. whe spent 2 hrs just on that at the start of basic training to get it right and when buff angry sergant tell you how to do stuff you simply remember

marines is a therm for soldiers attached with the navy so the allaince marines is in no way the us marines.
i think marines is just a therm for navy infantry
none of real life marine force traditions dosent apply for the allaince marines that is a totaly new orginisation with its own values,
also remember those marines are : norwegians, french, germans, russians, japaneese and so on
it is an international force, so if some marines in mass effect call them self soldiers is of nothing wrong with it in my eyes.

i wonder where the alliance army is?

Modifié par luzburg, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[DreGregoire]

Well there isn't an Alliance Army mentioned, probably because it all takes place space, that's why there are marines that are part of the Alliance Navy which is a branch of the Alliance System Military. hehe Or something like that. I'm probably not saying it exactly right. I bet there was an army branch created right quick when the Reapers struck, if there wasn't one before.

And I think it has been mentioned that the left handed salute was something they tried to catch in development but missed, but maybe it isn't 100% accurate.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:36 .

[DreGregoire]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Amusingly enough, when Kaidan is re-recruited he saluted with his left hand from one direction, then the camera changes position and he's saluting with his right hand.

It doesn't matter at all, but the change is funny.

Yeah I'm thinking that was one they fixed but didn't fix all the way. hehe

Modifié par DreGregoire, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[Stroke1986]

Scorpgul wrote...

LMFAO this is the most hilarious and sad thread I have read so far. We have a real ehem 'marine' trying to correct a videogame developer. WATCH OUT MASS EFFECT SERIES IS USED FOR MILITARY TRAINING YO IT NEEDS TO BE ACCURATE!!!!! I even heard they are preparing for an all out assault on Mars there's been sightings of Rachni ROFLMFAO!!!

Nope Garrus reports there are no Rachni but he finished calibrating

[Grubas]

So we cant have fantasy military in our fantasy games anymore?

[WhiteKnyght]

So the military structure of a future Alliance between several powerful nations has to be identical to the modern day US marines, even though the game was made in Canada?

Get over yourselves.

[Little Princess Peach]

Grubas wrote...

So we cant have fantasy military in our fantasy games anymore?

it's to video gamey?

[DoomRaiden]

NKKKK wrote...

It's kind of too late for the third game already, but god, some of this hollywood militar **** pisses me off.

First off, there's a photo in the ME facebook with a guy with N7 ink on it's forearm. That's cool and all, but the despription

Achieving the rank of N7 is no simple task. It
requires strength, dedication, courage... or a really good tattoo
artist. We congratulate community member @Jolsiphur on his impressive
new ink!

N7 isn't a rank. N7 is an occupational code. By that I mean their job in the Alliance Marine Corps, which is Spec Op Awesome Operative.

Second

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

I don't care if he's a cerberus operative or not, IN ANY ARMED FORCES IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, YOU SALUTE WITH THE RIGHT HAND. To do otherwise is disrecptuful. So this Cerberus marine was disrepctifing Shepard, maybe that's why he's gone afterwards. Who knows.

Third, MARINES DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES SOLDIERS, this has happened in all three games at one point or another. Even L.A. Noire, a great game whose developes did their research, made that mistake in an otherwise flawless game.

Now I'm not a marine, I'm an Airman, but even I know these damn rules and terms, and the first two examples aren't jarhead exclusive. They fit in the whole armed services.

Any other military in here who cringes everytime he sees an error like this?

....... yanks xD

[Reorte]

Grubas wrote...

So we cant have fantasy military in our fantasy games anymore?

Traditions change, practices change, and as long as it looks like any differences from anything that might be going on now can be explained by that then I'm fine with it. If it looks like someone screwed up out of carelessness or ignorance, then no. To shrug and say "It's a fantasy military" for everything is to accept sloppiness. Some people appreciate it when writers pay attention to details.

[MadCat221]

Kaidan isn't the only case where someone technically outranks Shepard but still acts like Shep's a superior officer.  The alliance captain who is wanting to cap a Cerbie that C-SEC captured after the Coup is acting all sheepish like a dressed-down subordinate if Shepard busts out the Paragon dialog.  If Alliance rank actually resembled reality, it'd make sense, since Marine Captain = Army O3, Commander = Navy O5.  But it doesn't resemble, so it doesn't make sense.

So not only can they not get military rank structure even resembling their own homeland's (Canada's
army line officer ranks are identical in structure to the US's), not only do they not comprehend that "Major" is not the top-level army line officer rank pretty much *anywhere* (that's typically "Colonel" in english), but they can't even follow their own structure.

Modifié par MadCat221, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[Darkelefantos1]

MadCat221 wrote...

Kaidan isn't the only case where someone technically outranks Shepard but still acts like Shep's a superior officer.  The alliance captain who is wanting to cap a Cerbie that C-SEC captured after the Coup is acting all sheepish like a dressed-down subordinate if Shepard busts out the Paragon dialog.  If Alliance rank actually resembled reality, it'd make sense, since Marine Captain = Army O3, Commander = Navy O5.  But it doesn't resemble, so it doesn't make sense.

So not only can they not get military rank structure even resembling their own homeland's (Canada's
army line officer ranks are identical in structure to the US's), not only do they not comprehend that "Major" is not the top-level army line officer rank pretty much *anywhere* (that's typically "Colonel" in english), but they can't even follow their own structure.

With emphasis on technically. Shepard is actually captain of the Normandy. As soon as Kaidan joins the crew,  Shep becomes a superior officer. Not to mention respect, experience, the fact Shepard lacks a promotion and the fact that Kaidan knows Shep's a better leader than himself, and Shepard's Spectre status that would make him independant from military rank.

[BiN0CULARz]

Let me say this,

I was in the Military-- got out last year. I can see why this bothers you. I used to complain about stuff like this a lot when I see movies, but then I asked brother... Why is this like that, blah , blah, blah...

He's also in the Military and here's what he told me. Since they portray Military Services they can't be exactly right, e.g., when they wear the Beret it has to be puffed up instead of flattened over left ear, when they wear rank for example, a Captain might be called Colonel, instead of rank being their chest it's on the collar of the Uniform, instead of calling an Officer "Sir" they call them by the rank, Captain, Major, Colonel etc., and when they salute they don't salute properly, because if they did or do anything like the actual Military it would be disrespectful. Also, they don't shave another thing Military personnel have to do.

Trust me, the left handed salute was the 1st thing noticed and it made me sick, but then I remembered what my brother told me and now I just laugh, but I understand. It took me a while to enjoy Transformers and GI Joe or any other movie that has a Military reference because of all these silly little flaws.

Same goes for video games, Mass effect (since it's the topic at hand) is a prime example. Admiral Hacket is in Charge, but they call themselves "Marines". An Admiral is in charge of the Navy (see your 1st mistake), a four star General is in charge of the Marines, Air Force and Army.

I hope that clears up something, if not oh well. Deal with the fact that Mass Effect is fantasy and not reality.

Good day. 

Modifié par BiN0CULARz, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:30 .

[Reorte]

BiN0CULARz wrote...

Same goes for video games, Mass effect (since it's the topic at hand) is a prime example. Admiral Hacket is in Charge, but they call themselves "Marines". An Admiral is in charge of the Navy (see your 1st mistake), a four star General is in charge of the Marines, Air Force and Army.

I hope that clears up something, if not oh well. Deal with the fact that Mass Effect is fantasy and not reality.

Good day. 

No reason why it couldn't have changed from current practice if it's all been streamlined into one force. Are there any generals in the Alliance? Go back 200 years and people would say that it's ridiculous to have a frigate not commanded by a captain, whereas it's pretty rare these days AFAIK.

To say "deal with it being fantasy" though is to say "Don't expect the writers to make an effort", which simply means "I don't want a quality product."

[BiN0CULARz]

Reorte wrote...

BiN0CULARz wrote...

Same goes for video games, Mass effect (since it's the topic at hand) is a prime example. Admiral Hacket is in Charge, but they call themselves "Marines". An Admiral is in charge of the Navy (see your 1st mistake), a four star General is in charge of the Marines, Air Force and Army.

I hope that clears up something, if not oh well. Deal with the fact that Mass Effect is fantasy and not reality.

Good day. 

No reason why it couldn't have changed from current practice if it's all been streamlined into one force. Are there any generals in the Alliance? Go back 200 years and people would say that it's ridiculous to have a frigate not commanded by a captain, whereas it's pretty rare these days AFAIK.

To say "deal with it being fantasy" though is to say "Don't expect the writers to make an effort", which simply means "I don't want a quality product."

It's not quality because someone saluted with the left hand? Roger! It doesn't bother me, and it's not really something to bug out about. I never played ME1 or 2, but did they salute with right hand in of those games? Let me know I'm curious and not even being sarcastic. 

[DreGregoire]

This superior officer stuff brings back the memory from ME1 where the (gah I forgot his rank) superior officer that Shepard and the Normandy were supposed to be placed under wants to inspect the Normandy. There is a wide range of options to respond. I think that as a Spectre Shepard has seniority in certain aspects but not others. Not to mention his/her name is known, and supposedly respected. So Shepard jumping down somebodies throat and that person appearing sheepish is not so far off, in my opinion. Doesn't Anderson say technically Shepard isn't part of the Alliance ranks? Shepard himself admits to it (in me2 I think). Hackett on the other hand still thinks he owns Shepard, I mean it's so obvious hehe.

Edit:
I notice people are still trying to tell others how they should react to something. How about you be you and I'll be me? That'll be great, thanks.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 11 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[SavagelyEpic]

Systems Alliance =/= US Armed Forces.

Similarily, US military tradition =/= everyone else's military tradition and conduct.

It's not that hard.

The American forces and other national forces are very distinct from Alliance forces in the ME universe.

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 11 septembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[Darkelefantos1]

DreGregoire wrote...

This superior officer stuff brings back the memory from ME1 where the (gah I forgot his rank) superior officer that Shepard and the Normandy were supposed to be placed under wants to inspect the Normandy.

Rear Admiral Mikhailovich. I believe he is the replacement for the Destiny Ascension War Asset.

[TheKevinShow]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Systems Alliance =/= US Armed Forces.

Similarily, US military tradition =/= everyone else's military tradition and conduct.

It's not that hard.

The American forces and other national forces are very distinct from Alliance forces in the ME universe.

It's not an issue of Americans or the US armed forces. It's the fact that - as far as anyone can tell - there isn't a single military on Earth that salutes with the left hand. A military salute is always done with the right. Therefore, any organization that evolves from Earth's militaries, i.e. the Systems Alliance, would follow that.

[Asebstos]

Some of the systems Alliance ranks make it seem like there still exists a distinctive Army (or Marine)/Navy separation.

For instance, there are Corporals, Majors, and Generals in the Systems Alliance, which doesn't fit if its all supposed to be Navy.

[xeNNN]

NKKKK wrote...

It's kind of too late for the third game already, but god, some of this hollywood militar **** pisses me off.

First off, there's a photo in the ME facebook with a guy with N7 ink on it's forearm. That's cool and all, but the despription

Achieving the rank of N7 is no simple task. It
requires strength, dedication, courage... or a really good tattoo
artist. We congratulate community member @Jolsiphur on his impressive
new ink!

N7 isn't a rank. N7 is an occupational code. By that I mean their job in the Alliance Marine Corps, which is Spec Op Awesome Operative.

Second

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

I don't care if he's a cerberus operative or not, IN ANY ARMED FORCES IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, YOU SALUTE WITH THE RIGHT HAND. To do otherwise is disrecptuful. So this Cerberus marine was disrepctifing Shepard, maybe that's why he's gone afterwards. Who knows.

Third, MARINES DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES SOLDIERS, this has happened in all three games at one point or another. Even L.A. Noire, a great game whose developes did their research, made that mistake in an otherwise flawless game.

Now I'm not a marine, I'm an Airman, but even I know these damn rules and terms, and the first two examples aren't jarhead exclusive. They fit in the whole armed services.

Any other military in here who cringes everytime he sees an error like this?

excellent deduction of a fiction military force created in a fictional gaming universe. 

of course you would know FACTS about a fictional military ... sure. At what point does a fictional military force HAVE to have the same standards and practices as real life military forces? really. (nobody really cares)

your stupidity will be honored in the coming empire.

Modifié par xeNNN, 11 septembre 2012 - 11:13 .

[Han Shot First]

MadCat221 wrote...

Kaidan isn't the only case where someone technically outranks Shepard but still acts like Shep's a superior officer.  The alliance captain who is wanting to cap a Cerbie that C-SEC captured after the Coup is acting all sheepish like a dressed-down subordinate if Shepard busts out the Paragon dialog.  If Alliance rank actually resembled reality, it'd make sense, since Marine Captain = Army O3, Commander = Navy O5.  But it doesn't resemble, so it doesn't make sense.

Actually the guy that wanted to kill the Cerberus prisoner was retired military. He was no longer a Captain.

It's not an issue of Americans or the US armed forces. It's the fact that - as far as anyone can tell - there isn't a single military on Earth that salutes with the left hand. A military salute is always done with the right. Therefore, any organization that evolves from Earth's militaries, i.e. the Systems Alliance, would follow that.

Pretty much.

Saluting with the right hand isn't just a US military tradition. There isn't an army on the planet that doesn't execute salutes with the right hand. Also, all militaries enforce uniformity in customs & courtesies. Left hand salutes might not be an issue if everyone saluted with their left hand in game, but they do not. The obvious reason why they do not is because the left hand salute wasn't intentional, and rather was a mistake by the devs.

As far as mistakes go I see it as one that is really minor though. It is fun to point it out and laugh at it, and perhaps briefly breaks immersion, but not in any way game killing.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 12 septembre 2012 - 01:25 .

[Asebstos]

The frequency of left handed salutes is pretty ridiculous. You can say "LOL its fictional!" all you want, but it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

[Asebstos]

Arcian wrote...

luzburg wrote...

i wonder where the alliance army is?

There is no such thing as an Alliance army. All ground forces are completely dependant on the navy for deployment, so the Alliance has ceased to distinguish between the two.

So why is our Army called an "Army" and why isn't it just a branch of the Air Force/Navy?

Or do we somehow march/drive to overseas battlefields?