392 réponses à ce sujet

[ninemarrow]

Lame, come on man...

[Han Shot First]

Asebstos wrote...

Arcian wrote...

luzburg wrote...

i wonder where the alliance army is?

There is no such thing as an Alliance army. All ground forces are completely dependant on the navy for deployment, so the Alliance has ceased to distinguish between the two.

So why is our Army called an "Army" and why isn't it just a branch of the Air Force/Navy?

Or do we somehow march/drive to overseas battlefields?

The Aliiance not having an 'Army' is actually canon. It is mentioned in Mass Effect: Revelation.

Basically the Alliance combined the functions of Marines, a Navy (Space Fleet), an Air Force, and an Army all into a single branch of service. (Alliance Navy) Shepard isn't even a Marine in the traditional sense, as he's part of the Alliance Navy. 'Marines' in the Alliance appears to be Navy personnel with ground combat related occupational specialities, rather than members of a seperate branch of service.

[Asebstos]

Han Shot First wrote...

Basically the Alliance combined the functions of Marines, a Navy (Space Fleet), an Air Force, and an Army all into a single branch of service. (Alliance Navy) Shepard isn't even a Marine in the traditional sense, as he's part of the Alliance Navy. 'Marines' in the Alliance appears to be Navy personnel with ground combat related occupational specialities, rather than members of a seperate branch of service.

The rank differences (Private, Corporal, Major, General) indicate that there is at least some sort of branch separtion.

[metawanderer]

If I wanted a game with accurate military doctrine and practices, I would play ARMA or America's Army. I fail to see how something simple as a salute with the left hand can break someone's entire immersion in a 30+ hour game.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

*comment removed by Moderator*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:34 .

[wizardryforever]

Not sure if this has been already mentioned (I don't want to read 12 other pages), but until quite recently, the Marines were technically part of the Navy (in the US anyway).  It's understandable why, so maybe Shepard being a Marine means he is still part of the Navy.

There isn't an Alliance Air Force since the space ships owned by the Navy make an Air Force redundant, and the Marines (along with Alliance military doctrine) make an Army pointless as well.  So really, the Alliance military could very well be just one branch.  This could be why we have ground forces ranks (like Corporal Jenkins) mixed in with naval forces ranks (like Admiral Hackett).  I'm not positive about the rank of Commander, though.  Is that a ground forces rank or a naval rank?  Or both?  I know more about naval ranks since I'm joining the Navy very soon.

[Rixatrix]

Is sounds like OP's concern is lack of realism in the game. I can understand being critical. As a lawyer, Phoenix Wright for example was completely off the mark, but it was a fun little diversion.  A game is a work of fiction, and its creators can craft it in any way they choose. If you want to enjoy it, suspend your disbelief and play in the fictional world they have created for you. If you want to nitpick, go ahead, but the world of Mass Effect does not operate by our real world's rules.

There are plenty of things you can complain about. Like hey, there's no way they could have brought Shepard back from the dead in ME2! What about explosions in space? Oh, let's not forget being able to change your class?  And how about those mass relays?  Reapers?  

We can nitpick all day about things that are hard to believe in a game, or we can suspend our disbelief and enjoy some time away from the laws of physics, what is, and what's possible in the real world. I vote for the latter.

Modifié par BlueMoonSeraphim, 12 septembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[AlienWolf728]

"No boss fights, too video-gamey"

"LOL it's just a video game!"

^ Bioware logic.

[Joryn01]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

*comment removed*

That's awefullyharsh of you.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:35 .

[l7986]

I like the whole OMG THEY WANT PROPER SALUTES GO PLAY ARMA IF YOU WANT A MILITARY SIMULATOR AND ITS JUST A VIDEO GAME vibe thats going on. It's not immersion breaking, but at least to me it just looks so out of place.

[Bierwichtel]

my two cents here:

what pisses me of (and I mean really) is the inconsistency in rank structure; why in all f*ck should the rank of Major be equivalent to the rank of Captain? This p*ssed me of mightily in the first game, reading this in the Codex, it still pisses me of now...

Former Navy-Soldier here and I know it's just a game... but come on... even Wikipedia is right on the different military branches and their rank structure...

btw, German Navy has ranks that have funny names like:
-Leutnant zur See
-Kapitänleutnant (equal to Commander/Lieutenant Colonel
-Konteradmiral (equal to RearAdm/BrigGen)

like I said, just my two cents, but come on an Army Pogue (Kaiden) outranking a Navy Commander... (which is not the complete ranking designation anyway, so it's never made obvious what Commander rank Shepard actually is)

Shepard should have been promoted to Captain the moment they took command over the SSV Normandy, just saying...(and I know that the commanding office of any vessel is adressed as Captain or skipper regardless of actual rank, but still...

I do understand OP's ire... either get it right or don't do it at all...

(btw, had to know the rank designations and rank markings of all branches back then, not just our own... still saying it was so we could make fun of army and af without running afoul of a ranking officer...)

[Grizzly46]

The rank system is a mess, and that's just the start of it, with almost everything already said.

I don't really get why people get upset when complaints are raised regarding this - Shepard is a military officer, serving on a military vessel, in a war. I think it is just common decency to get some facts straight - there IS after all a wiki on this...

Another thing I thought about is this about not having an army. That doesn't make any sense either - sure, the troops need the naval ships to get from one planet to another, but my guess is that most troops stay put on the planet they are raised on - because does anyone have any idea of how hard it is to move troops around? Providing everything the soldiers need demands entire cargo holds only for that, plus bathroom facilities, in the case of space ships oxygen, water, beds, medical facilities (people will get sick on board with everything that brings)... And so on.

All this means that there needs to be an army, with a separate army structure; otherwise, the entire organization will be a colossus on clay feet. There's a reason that even if the US has a separate air force, they also have the marines (with marine air units), army (with army air units) and navy (with navy air units). All branches also have some kind of ground forces, and all this is in order to keep things running smoothly and not grind down as a gigantic steamroller. The WH40K Baneblade tank with 11 guns is fun to think of, but a logistical nightmare (not to mention it would get bogged down immediately, but that's another discussion).

Sure, its a sci-fi fantasy, but still, some things needs to stay accurate. Even if its just saluting with the right hand.

[Aimi]

I think, fundamentally, the notion that the Alliance doesn't divide its ground forces into a separate armed service isn't that important. The Soviet Union, for instance, placed all air and naval assets under the overall aegis of the Red Army, because they were all designed to act as supports to the Army. It's a similar principle at work here: space-naval warfare is of primary importance to the Alliance, and ground occupation and campaigning is secondary. To steal Jacky Fisher and Edward Grey's phrase, the Alliance ground forces are a projectile to be fired by the Alliance Navy. The Alliance's ground forces obviously have a logistical tail and considerable bureaucracy to keep them in the field, but they do not need to be classified as separate from the Navy to get these things.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Joryn01 wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

*comment removed*

That's awefullyharsh of you.

Welcome to life! *comment removed*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 12 septembre 2012 - 08:40 .

[CROAT_56]

wow this is still going

[inb4lock]

Where I live all military personnel are referred to as soldiers without a distinction between branches. So everyone calling themselves soldiers even though they are navy, marine or whatever is plausible.

[Bierwichtel]

inb4lock wrote...

Where I live all military personnel are referred to as soldiers without a distinction between branches. So everyone calling themselves soldiers even though they are navy, marine or whatever is plausible.

so basically:

Army Soldier, Chair Force Soldier, Navy Soldier?

makes sense...:happy:

[Bierwichtel]

oh and another thing, why is it seemingly soooo hard to salute correctly?

just saying, end of Arrival DLC: an Admiral saluting a Commander? and no reaction from Shepard?

the same in ME3, the conversations through the QEC, Hackett salutes; Shepard? nothing...

and I will not accept the reasoning that Shepard was not technically Alliance at that moment...

no, no, no... the Soldiers here should understand what an honour it is to be saluted by a superior officer...

this is actually quite common in entertainment media... (Stargate notwithstanding, but they got actual AF backing)

just some useless factoid from my service: we weren't even allowed to salute before we did not successfully complete a course on how to salute correctly...

lots of fun... remember running into an Officer (being a lowly recruit back then) and being chewed out for not saluting (did go to attention for about half a second) then calmly explaining to the Officer that my group's salute course was not yet completed...

fun times...

Modifié par Bierwichtel, 12 septembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[Metalunatic]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You know this is a video game and not, you know, real life, right?

That's no excuse. 

[OrphanMakrBebop]

After much study on the subject, one can imagine that the specific problem associated with the rank and saluting protocol can most easily be explained by the fact that the Alliance military doesn't actually exist.
It's similar to the theory that leprechans and vampires are much more closely related than most people realize, because they don't exist.

[Bierwichtel]

OrphanMakrBebop wrote...

After much study on the subject, one can imagine that the specific problem associated with the rank and saluting protocol can most easily be explained by the fact that the Alliance military doesn't actually exist.
It's similar to the theory that leprechans and vampires are much more closely related than most people realize, because they don't exist.

sarcastically: Yes, thank you...

big difference:

Militaries and military protocol do exist...

so...

[inb4lock]

Bierwichtel wrote...

inb4lock wrote...

Where I live all military personnel are referred to as soldiers without a distinction between branches. So everyone calling themselves soldiers even though they are navy, marine or whatever is plausible.

so basically:

Army Soldier, Chair Force Soldier, Navy Soldier?

makes sense...:happy:

Just soldier, if you want to know where are what they are doing you would have to ask. Though most times they would say so themselves, or the ywould simply state that they (e.g.) are in the army. (or navy or what ever they are doing.)

[Bierwichtel]

inb4lock wrote...

Bierwichtel wrote...

inb4lock wrote...

Where I live all military personnel are referred to as soldiers without a distinction between branches. So everyone calling themselves soldiers even though they are navy, marine or whatever is plausible.

so basically:

Army Soldier, Chair Force Soldier, Navy Soldier?

makes sense...:happy:

Just soldier, if you want to know where are what they are doing you would have to ask. Though most times they would say so themselves, or the ywould simply state that they (e.g.) are in the army. (or navy or what ever they are doing.)

ah, thank you... it's pretty much the same were I live... it's mostly a matter of pride to make a distinction...

(Bundeswehr btw...)

P.S:. I absolutely love your signature... 

[inb4lock]

@Bierwichtel

Im from Denmark myself.

Thanks, i have shamelessly stolen it from Kralnor.

[Mr Shlap]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You know this is a video game and not, you know, real life, right?

for once I agree with "evil" chris