392 réponses à ce sujet

[Annora]

Abraham_uk wrote...

For me it's hair styles.

People with longer hair can only have their hair in buns.

Okay I'll make allowances for pony tails.

But loose hair flopping in front of ones face? That's daft.
Tie it properly or cut it short.

Absolutely. My Shepards only ever have their hair in a bun or cut short. No woman in her right mind would let her long hair blow in the wind when she's trying to work, whether it's shooting Reaper forces, or planting gardens.

[aries1001]

Soldiers serve in the army, marines serve in the navy. And as I see it, Shepard is a N7 operative wokring in the alliance's space ship. The operative word here being 'ship'. The whole command and rank structure in the ME games reminds me of the rank structure in Star Trek. Data was Lt. Commander altså, Picard ended up an Star Fleet Admiral. And the pibe/flute was just whenever an Admiral came on deck. As I understand it, this is similar to how rank structure is portrayed in the ME games.

As for the ME games beuing fiction, this is it, of course. However, it is nice to see when devs. have done their research correctly and represents the military as it is. And of course, in 200 years or so a lot will have changed in the military, but one think will never change, I think. the pulling rank on someone.

US Marines do not like to be called soldiers as they serve in the US Navy, not the US Army.

[SMheatstroke23]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You know this is a video game and not, you know, real life, right?

[inko1nsiderate]

This might shock you, but as a physicist I sometimes notice when they get their basic physics wrong. This doesn't break my immersion or bother me, because in the real world no one knows basic physics so I'm used to it being utterly ignored in any kind of fiction.

I can also relate to the appreciation you'd feel if they did get the military stuff right, but I also understand why they don't.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 03 août 2012 - 12:39 .

[Zkyire]

iSousek wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Gosh you people and your anti-United North American States rhetoric make me mad.

THE UNITED NORTH AMERICAN STATES, THE ANALGRAM OF CANADA MEXICO AND THAT MIDDLE COUNTRY IS WHAT MADETHE SYSTEMS ALLIANCE.

The Chinese People's Federation? Those commies? PFFFFT
The EU? They're all a bunch of pansies.

But God bless the UNAS, without the UNAS there wouldn't be an Alliance, or tortillas.

Wrong.
A coallition of 18 largest nations created Systems Alliance

I apolagize if I've failed to understand your sarcasm.

Oh wow, I completely missed that post.

Well, this post, combined with the OP's unwillingness to accept any opinion other than his own certainly shows the OP in a rather trollish light.

[Dawson14]

*Edited out by Moderator*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 03 août 2012 - 08:20 .

[WhiteKnyght]

NKKKK wrote...

It's kind of too late for the third game already, but god, some of this hollywood militar **** pisses me off.

First off, there's a photo in the ME facebook with a guy with N7 ink on it's forearm. That's cool and all, but the despription

Achieving the rank of N7 is no simple task. It
requires strength, dedication, courage... or a really good tattoo
artist. We congratulate community member @Jolsiphur on his impressive
new ink!

N7 isn't a rank. N7 is an occupational code. By that I mean their job in the Alliance Marine Corps, which is Spec Op Awesome Operative.

Second

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

I don't care if he's a cerberus operative or not, IN ANY ARMED FORCES IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, YOU SALUTE WITH THE RIGHT HAND. To do otherwise is disrecptuful. So this Cerberus marine was disrepctifing Shepard, maybe that's why he's gone afterwards. Who knows.

Third, MARINES DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES SOLDIERS, this has happened in all three games at one point or another. Even L.A. Noire, a great game whose developes did their research, made that mistake in an otherwise flawless game.

Now I'm not a marine, I'm an Airman, but even I know these damn rules and terms, and the first two examples aren't jarhead exclusive. They fit in the whole armed services.

Any other military in here who cringes everytime he sees an error like this?

Mass Effect is over 150 years in the future. Military rank, protocol, etc can change over time.

Get over it.

[NKKKK]

Zkyire wrote...

iSousek wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Gosh you people and your anti-United North American States rhetoric make me mad.

THE UNITED NORTH AMERICAN STATES, THE ANALGRAM OF CANADA MEXICO AND THAT MIDDLE COUNTRY IS WHAT MADETHE SYSTEMS ALLIANCE.

The Chinese People's Federation? Those commies? PFFFFT
The EU? They're all a bunch of pansies.

But God bless the UNAS, without the UNAS there wouldn't be an Alliance, or tortillas.

Wrong.
A coallition of 18 largest nations created Systems Alliance

I apolagize if I've failed to understand your sarcasm.

Oh wow, I completely missed that post.

Well, this post, combined with the OP's unwillingness to accept any opinion other than his own certainly shows the OP in a rather trollish light.

I've made my point about the right handed salute a lot, other posters have provided compelling arguments as well, but you ignore them and just say "you cant hurrpredict the future". You came off with sarcasm and hostility with me, and then belittled me. You're a troll. The fact is, no matter how much the salute itself changes, the left handed salute in the scope of the mass effect universe is wrong and a self admitted developer oversight. You have yet to adress that part, you just keep on with your **** posting and derailing about tarot cards. You've come off as rude and disrepectful towards me without any reason except that you don't like my opinions.

Left handed people don't do left handed salutes, it just doesn't happen and won't happen. You can keep your troll comments about the future but other military members and myself know this.

The UNAS post was a joke post aimed to poke fun at the anti-U.S. sentiment here.
I'm not going to respond to you again.

Modifié par NKKKK, 03 août 2012 - 01:37 .

[Pacifien]

If any of you have taken offense at anything said in this thread, walk away. Don't go poking fun at other people. Try not to immediately go "it's called the future, think about it" or "it's military tradition going back hundreds of years, it won't happen," because *both* sentiments come across as close-minded and disrespectful.

If you think I don't have the authority to tell you how to act on these forums, you're right, I don't. I am simply encouraging some of you to make better use of your energy.

[NKKKK]

Pacifien wrote...

If any of you have taken offense at anything said in this thread, walk away. Don't go poking fun at other people. Try not to immediately go "it's called the future, think about it" or "it's military tradition going back hundreds of years, it won't happen," because *both* sentiments come across as close-minded and disrespectful.

If you think I don't have the authority to tell you how to act on these forums, you're right, I don't. I am simply encouraging some of you to make better use of your energy.

I'm open to the idea that the Systems Alliance has changed a lot, but the right handed salute...it can't change. There are serious reasons as to why, this thread had many posters and myself explaning. I'm not discussing it further though

Developer oversight, self admitted.

Modifié par NKKKK, 03 août 2012 - 02:02 .

[Fingertrip]

This troll OP is strong. It has lured many into its trap.

[NKKKK]

*Edited out by Moderator*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 03 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[Dawson14]

*Edited out by Moderator*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 03 août 2012 - 08:21 .

[SojournerN7]

I remember a developer mentioning this oversight. I just chalk up a left-handed salute to injury. If a subordinate can't rotate their shoulder to properly to salute right, I would accept an very accurate left.

I did see a thread about this on a UK site in regards to left-hand saluting, but I wouldn't reference it without seeing the actual source material.

[MutoidMan]

What appears to be the meta main topic of this thread - whether historic Western military traditions can be expected to be honored by a fictional future almagam of some of Earth's most powerful militaries exactly as they are by today's actual militaries - is an interesting one.

I found the following article which I think allows for the possibility of a non-insulting left-handed salute coming about (and back) in the future:www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/history/vignettes/respect1.html

Modifié par MutoidMan, 03 août 2012 - 02:42 .

[crypticcat 2o2p]

Beerfish wrote...

So, all military protocol has stayed the same from the year 1800's until today? Why do soldiers today not walk in rows wearing red coats?

You simply cannot hold a game and or book to a set of codes or rules 200 years or more in the future, it's illogical and it's silly, especially the way technology and the way of doing things changes faster and faster each year.

In 25 years of service I have seen the military change considerably. One of the things that changed the most was the uniform. New materials and fabrics, metals changed to plastics. All in all, the modern soldier is about 10 kilogrammes lighter as I was when I enlisted in 1984. That's a good thing.

In return though, since no military in the world lets their soldiers slide, physical excercise has been cranked up. The modern soldier is also fitter than a soldier in 1984 was.

What didn't change is respecting and acknowledging a superior rank. (Though the constant saluting is not as present in the dutch army as it is in other armies.) I personally have always disliked the dropping everything and snap to attention. A curt nod, or a mumbled "LT" does just as nicely. The whole song and dance is better saved for ceremonial activities.

The two soldiers that guarded Joker and were re-assigned to guard duty at the security-screen are surprisingly modern military compared to ME1. They don't salute, but they acknowledge my Sheppie with "Commander" or Ma'am". Maybe to americans that may come across as surprisingly disrespectful, but to a dutch military officer, that's about right. ^^

[Han Shot First]

Pypek_360 wrote...

Here's why some of the future-space-soldiers salute with their left hand.

The Alliance wanted to work together with the Turians and other aliens.

What if, in the Turian military, or in the asari culture ( since they don't have a military force similar to humans), or whatever, saluting with your right hand means disrespect, and since in ME 3 every race is working together, they had to change the right handed salute to left handed, so the aliens on board of the alliance ships wouldn't be confused or insulted in any way.

Just like how polish soldiers working together with the Allies had to salute with the whole hand, instead of just 2 fingers like they normally do, so they wouldn't insult foreign soldiers.

That would be plausible if everyone saluted with their left hand in the game, but most ofthe salutes are rendered with the right. So it just seems to be a rather embarrasing mistake by the devs.

That being said, it is a minor complaint and certainly not game breaking. It is a bit like watching a movie set in ancient Rome and noticing that one of the extras has a wris****ch on. It is something to chuckle at it, but doesn't necessarily ruin the movie.

I do not quite understand why the US Marines don't want to be called soldiers, but ok,
it's irrelevant to Mass Effect universe, though, we didn't see any US marine in the game, only alliance personnel.

They don't like to be called soldiers because they aren't. A soldier is a member of an army whereas Marines are naval infantry and support. Marines aren't soldiers in the same way that sailors aren't soldiers.

In the Mass Effect universe I don't really see this as a flaw however, as soldier is often used to refer to all military personnel in a ground combat role (even if that is technically incorrect), and Marines in some countries other than the US do call themselves soldiers.

[AlanC9]

NKKKK wrote...

I'm open to the idea that the Systems Alliance has changed a lot, but the right handed salute...it can't change. There are serious reasons as to why, this thread had many posters and myself explaning. I'm not discussing it further though

Developer oversight, self admitted.

OK..... and.... who the hell cares? Besides you, that is.

I thought it looked kinda silly when I saw it, but that's about it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 03 août 2012 - 06:45 .

[DreGregoire]

I woke up thinking about this and then read some posts again and just have to share some facts from the game.

The Systems Alliance is the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in Citadel space.
The Alliance Navy is responsible for the Naval Operations of the System Alliance.
The Alliance Marines are the ground operations branch of the Alliance military and are a specialized branch of the Navy.

And my own input:

I can easily see that Shepard and other's might call themselves Soldier's in the future because there would be less seperation from the Naval branch than there is today. I also can imagine that many army individuals from earth may have joined the marine's for a chance to travel in space, at least in the early years. I'm assuming that there is still armys on earth (other branches to) that continue to protect themselves from each other on earth. In space a marine would be hard pressed to take the hard line with the Naval Ship and its crew, because they are essentially a small portion of those aboard the ship. So it is that alone that makes me think that the Marine's of the future might still call themselves marine's alone among themselves, but still consider themselves soldier's for the sake of being a comprehensive part of the whole (Alliance).

In response to comment(s) I've read in the thread:

Calling somebody army is just a way of acknowledging that they are a more combat oriented soldier versus a soldier that is less of a grunt. It can be used as an insult or can just be an acknowledgment of the abilities of the individual. A Krogan calls Shepard Army as a way of acknowledging that he can tell Shepard is a soldier. Other's use it to refer to the arsenal of weapons he totes around.

Talking about the small but bothersome things in the game is an appropriate way of letting devs know that we care about the game we are playing, it's also an acknowledgment of the impact the game had on us. It lets the devs know that we like the game enough to play it but a few things interfered with our ability to enjoy it fully.

Thanks for the links showing that it is believed that the saluting left handed thing was an oversight.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 03 août 2012 - 07:39 .

[DreGregoire]

Oh and about the rank of N7 comment. I agree. It should have said "designation of N7."

Modifié par DreGregoire, 03 août 2012 - 07:48 .

[dayvancowboy1]

NKKKK wrote...

It's kind of too late for the third game already, but god, some of this hollywood militar **** pisses me off.

First off, there's a photo in the ME facebook with a guy with N7 ink on it's forearm. That's cool and all, but the despription

Achieving the rank of N7 is no simple task. It
requires strength, dedication, courage... or a really good tattoo
artist. We congratulate community member @Jolsiphur on his impressive
new ink!

N7 isn't a rank. N7 is an occupational code. By that I mean their job in the Alliance Marine Corps, which is Spec Op Awesome Operative.

Second

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

I don't care if he's a cerberus operative or not, IN ANY ARMED FORCES IN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, YOU SALUTE WITH THE RIGHT HAND. To do otherwise is disrecptuful. So this Cerberus marine was disrepctifing Shepard, maybe that's why he's gone afterwards. Who knows.

Third, MARINES DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES SOLDIERS, this has happened in all three games at one point or another. Even L.A. Noire, a great game whose developes did their research, made that mistake in an otherwise flawless game.

Now I'm not a marine, I'm an Airman, but even I know these damn rules and terms, and the first two examples aren't jarhead exclusive. They fit in the whole armed services.

Any other military in here who cringes everytime he sees an error like this?

"disrespectifing", hmm, i think i'll add this to my vocabulary. e.g. "you should never disresepctify your superiors"(just joking man, no offense or anything).

Seriously though, the left hand salute was quite bad, it's true(wasn't that in ME2 though?). During my service, saluting with my left hand would most likely have me standing trial.

Regarding N7 as a rank, while i agree it's technically wrong terminology, i think it's more meaningful to the general audience than "occupational code" or "military role"(closest translation i could come up to the term used in the IDF).

Lastly, i think that complaining about marines being called soldiers is little more than nitpicking. In the IDF, essentially any service man/woman can be called a "soldier", formally, by anyone with a higher rank or otherwise within his hierarchical authority, regardless of branch/corp/unit etc'. 
Obviously i respect your claim, but just wanted to show that it's different in different armies.

[AndersL]

Guys, aren't you forgetting that this is 200+ years in the future? Just a thought...

[Inquisitor Recon]

At least the Normandy isn't filled with three admirals and five captains or something along those lines, which was the case if you examined the crew's uniforms in ME1.

As for everything else, consider the fact that the Systems Alliance is filled with and run by incompetent people judging from all the games. Of course they would be saluting wrong and have a strange ranking system. Reaper-god-king Shepard will fix all of it.

And off-topic, but Pressly deserved a proper replacement.

[Fireblader70]

Yeah... okay.

It's set in the future! The! Future! And not only that, but it's a different universe! Another reality! Who cares if they salute with a different hand? Just because it's disrespectful here, doesn't mean that it will be disrespectful there! I mean, come on, this is like criticising Jedi in Star Wars because they don't conform exactly to some kind of martial arts doctrine.

[Pypek_360]

Han Shot First wrote...


They don't like to be called soldiers because they aren't. A soldier is a member of an army whereas Marines are naval infantry and support. Marines aren't soldiers in the same way that sailors aren't soldiers.

Well, I get it all now, had to look 'Soldier' up on wikipedia . Apparently I didn't get it because it's a language thing.
In Poland, everybody that serves in the Army is called a soldier, doesn't matter wheter he's a pilot, seaman, paratrooper or whatever. Well.. you always learn something new .