266 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

What exactly are we arguing about?

Sovereign.

You should know by now any thread I'm drawn to just tends to veer off course until its smashing right into the ground.

Truth be told we're arguing about how stupid Mac Walter's plot devices are. Or at least that's how it started.

To recap, the pieces Mac wrote were

Kai Leng

Arrival

TIM (ME3)

Cerberus, ME3

The ending, of course,

The intro

the abhorrently stupid dialogue in the intro

and like one or two other things I'm sure I've missed.

I'm surprised about Kai Leng. I originally thought Mac Walters was a good character writer.

[ld1449]

txgoldrush wrote...


What is Shepards magical strategy to use against the Reapers in the intro than? What advice could Shepard give to the allaince brass?

Nothing, because he is in the dark as everyone else, except for the fact that they are coming.

I answered that question before. Go back and read it.

[txgoldrush]

TookYoCookies wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Already listed them...sometimes you have to piece things together...I know...old school Bioware fans want everything explained and don't want to think about things. Nevermind Brynn Cole talking about solving the energy burst problem Dr. Lok was having.

You didn't list anything. All you said was "Shadow Broker files". Go and find the file or post the name of the file and where to find it.

You ever hear of this cool new thing the kids call "burden of proof"?

Lol, goldrush is definition of a bio-drone. If Hudson/Walters sh*t on a plate that dude would pay $80 for a collectors edition napkin, scarf it down, then come on the BSN saying it was the best steak ever and how everyone else is a whiner.. Lol, dudes a joke.

Please.....I called on these forums....DAO, for being generic and highly overrated. Nevermind that I think KOTOR II is better than KOTOR I, and that I think NWN1 sucks.

I am no bio-drone.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 02 août 2012 - 05:08 .

[txgoldrush]

MegaSovereign wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

What exactly are we arguing about?

Sovereign.

You should know by now any thread I'm drawn to just tends to veer off course until its smashing right into the ground.

Truth be told we're arguing about how stupid Mac Walter's plot devices are. Or at least that's how it started.

To recap, the pieces Mac wrote were

Kai Leng

Arrival

TIM (ME3)

Cerberus, ME3

The ending, of course,

The intro

the abhorrently stupid dialogue in the intro

and like one or two other things I'm sure I've missed.

I'm surprised about Kai Leng. I originally thought Mac Walters was a good character writer.

Leng is a throwaway character like Benezia.

Anderson was excellent however.

[ld1449]

MegaSovereign wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

What exactly are we arguing about?

Sovereign.

You should know by now any thread I'm drawn to just tends to veer off course until its smashing right into the ground.

Truth be told we're arguing about how stupid Mac Walter's plot devices are. Or at least that's how it started.

To recap, the pieces Mac wrote were

Kai Leng

Arrival

TIM (ME3)

Cerberus, ME3

The ending, of course,

The intro

the abhorrently stupid dialogue in the intro

and like one or two other things I'm sure I've missed.

I'm surprised about Kai Leng. I originally thought Mac Walters was a good character writer.

He's not really. He makes archtypes. Nothing more nothing less.

He has the black whirlwind under his belt from Jade emp from what I understand and...thats about it.

Wrex from ME1 and Garrus from ME1

I love Wrex, but I can fess up and admit that he's nothing but a walking archtype, just cookie cutter into the "bad ass merc" role. with a little sprinkle for the genophage issue.

Garrus follows the frustrated cop archtype in almost everything but the drinking, washed out persona. His frustration with the rules follows that of most cop shows from the 80s and 90s

And apparently now adays Mac got into Anime and brought up the Bishounen archtype so typically found in Japanese Manga where this jonas brother looking **** is supposed to be a "bad ass." just because he's got a sword and speaks in a monotone.

Casey hired his best friend for lead writing position. The man has little to no credentials to speak of.

I cant find a single work outside of Bioware. Not even a published short story.

[txgoldrush]

ld1449 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

D24O wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Sorry, but you do not always need hints or foreshadowing.....however, there are some foreshaodwing on the Crucible, nevermind that the consquences of it being fired are discussed.

No you don't NEED hints or forshadowing, if you want a contrived plot device, but if you want something to flow naturally out of the story, you have to set it up properly, usually via hints and forshadowing, something in which 3 failed with regards to the Crucible. 

But when something is supposed to be mysterious, you don't need a lot of foreshadowing. There is no rule to this. Part of the story was the mystery behind the Crucible's effects.

Nevermind ME1 also failed in foreshadowing many of its revelations, and mE2 is in the same boat as well with the Human Reaper.

What did it fail to foreshadow. Vigil?

You spend half the game in prothean ruins and discovering prothean tech left behind and hearing about how much the protheans did and the beacons that they left and the messages Shepard hears and the visions. Plenty of foreshadowing.

The ship as an actual Reaper, you're told repeatedly (depending on what missions you did before virmire) that the ship came from nowhere, no one knows how Saren aquired it, how it functions or even how in the world anyone could manufacture it.

You're told that the Reapers are a hyper advanced machine race.

Plenty of foreshadowing.

The genophage cure?

The genophage discussions through half of Wrex' dialogue.

Again, plenty of foreshadowing.

Vigil is an outright Deus Ex Machina.

The Cipher wasn't foreshadowed....neither was the Fifth Fleet coming to the rescue because Drew K had a massive plot hole in regards to Joker during the Ilos mission.

ME1 is far more contrived than ME3.

Again. If you've read the books (like you claim) then you should recall that Drew states very clearly that the Citadel would be impossible to attack outright not only because the ward arms close, and because it has a constant fleet detail but also because the Citadel relay is linked to several other major relays, including arcturus relay, the biggest base the alliance has.

Considering Mass relays allow near instantaneous travel and coms it isnt impossible for joker to have hauled his ass back to arcturus and sent them a message like "Hey saddle up!"

And again, it wasn't, it was sufficiently foreshadowed and had something of a prescedent with both Prothean Beacons, messages left by the protheans warning us. Vigil was just a bit more straightforward than brain pictures.

Wrong....

Its a plot hole.

How does Joker know of the Conduit?

How would Joker strand Shep on Ilos? Hell, and people are whining about stranding him in ME3.....lol

With no direction and no information, Joker suddenly decides to strand Shep and join the fleet.

I smell a plot hole and a hypocrite.

Face it, ME1 ends with TWO Deus Ex Machinas.

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Already listed them...sometimes you have to piece things together...I know...old school Bioware fans want everything explained and don't want to think about things. Nevermind Brynn Cole talking about solving the energy burst problem Dr. Lok was having.

You didn't list anything. All you said was "Shadow Broker files". Go and find the file or post the name of the file and where to find it.

You ever hear of this cool new thing the kids call "burden of proof"?

Lol, goldrush is definition of a bio-drone. If Hudson/Walters sh*t on a plate that dude would pay $80 for a collectors edition napkin, scarf it down, then come on the BSN saying it was the best steak ever and how everyone else is a whiner.. Lol, dudes a joke.

Please.....I called on these forums....DAO, for being generic and highly overrated. Nevermind that I think KOTOR II is better than KOTOR I, and that I think NWN1 sucks.

I am no bio-drone.

So you're a hipster. Is that any better?

[ld1449]

txgoldrush wrote...



Leng is a throwaway character like Benezia.

Anderson was excellent however.

He only wrote one part of Anderson's dialogue

The "feels like years since I just sat down" scene.

And that I'll admit is the one scene where his work doesn't come off reeking of stupid

Everything else was handled by different members of the team.

[LanceSolous13]

3DandBeyond wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Hepler wrote Thane and believes he did his development justice (SDCC Panel)....

...I am not amused in the slightest...In fact, I'm extremely pissed off...

You can never get too much Thane.  Gone way too soon in my opinion.  As cold and calculated as he was, he was also a very deep person.

He should have had the option to save him. I'm not saying let him live every playthrough, but the option the cure him that many of his fans wanted. His and Jacob's status as LI in ME2 is....rather pointless at this point which is sad since they do have good romances.

Thane was my bro. And to see him die in the manner he did with his character development disregarded...

And then to see Hepler say "I've always wanted to write an assassin." and claim he did justice to his character development.

I feel like I just got slapped.

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Already listed them...sometimes you have to piece things together...I know...old school Bioware fans want everything explained and don't want to think about things. Nevermind Brynn Cole talking about solving the energy burst problem Dr. Lok was having.

You didn't list anything. All you said was "Shadow Broker files". Go and find the file or post the name of the file and where to find it.

You ever hear of this cool new thing the kids call "burden of proof"?

Lol, goldrush is definition of a bio-drone. If Hudson/Walters sh*t on a plate that dude would pay $80 for a collectors edition napkin, scarf it down, then come on the BSN saying it was the best steak ever and how everyone else is a whiner.. Lol, dudes a joke.

Please.....I called on these forums....DAO, for being generic and highly overrated. Nevermind that I think KOTOR II is better than KOTOR I, and that I think NWN1 sucks.

I am no bio-drone.

So you're a hipster. Is that any better?

Oh wait, I thought that hating ME3 was the hip thing to do.....

[Taboo]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Already listed them...sometimes you have to piece things together...I know...old school Bioware fans want everything explained and don't want to think about things. Nevermind Brynn Cole talking about solving the energy burst problem Dr. Lok was having.

You didn't list anything. All you said was "Shadow Broker files". Go and find the file or post the name of the file and where to find it.

You ever hear of this cool new thing the kids call "burden of proof"?

Lol, goldrush is definition of a bio-drone. If Hudson/Walters sh*t on a plate that dude would pay $80 for a collectors edition napkin, scarf it down, then come on the BSN saying it was the best steak ever and how everyone else is a whiner.. Lol, dudes a joke.

Please.....I called on these forums....DAO, for being generic and highly overrated. Nevermind that I think KOTOR II is better than KOTOR I, and that I think NWN1 sucks.

I am no bio-drone.

So you're a hipster. Is that any better?

The word you're looking for is bot.

[ld1449]

txgoldrush wrote...


Wrong....

Its a plot hole.

How does Joker know of the Conduit?

How would Joker strand Shep on Ilos? Hell, and people are whining about stranding him in ME3.....lol

With no direction and no information, Joker suddenly decides to strand Shep and join the fleet.

I smell a plot hole and a hypocrite.

Face it, ME1 ends with TWO Deus Ex Machinas.

Uhhhh because right after virmire Liara flat out says "THE CONDUIT IS ON ILOS"

Right on the Normandy

Mass Relay jumps are like a flare (stated by engineer adams in ME1) immagine how many flares went off on their screens when Saren was jumping a whole army of geth through that conduit not to mention that also in the books, Mass effect jumps can be traced.

*Edit* They even traced Kai lengs Mass relay jumps out of Thessia.

Its not impossible to put two and two together.

Especially when they have no landing place within several miles and no car to get them there quickly (Shepard kinda took that one)

So Joker instead of uselessly sitting in orbit probably decided to take some innitiative with the info he had.

See. I don't need everything spelled out for me.

Its all right there if you read enough. Drew provided all the pieces.

Mac. He probably doesn't even know what pieces he's still missing.

Modifié par ld1449, 02 août 2012 - 05:24 .

[Dusen]

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

[o Ventus]

Dusen wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

It's sad that each subsequent level was worse than the level preceding it too.

[Uncle Jo]

MegaSovereign wrote...


First off, thanks for reading.

While it's unknown if the designers of the Crucible knew about the Catalyst AI, the Citadel was included into the design since it's the command station of the Mass Relay network.

The Destroy/Control functionality being on the Citadel doesn't necessarily mean that the original designers knew about the AI construct who already had control over the Reapers.

Thanks for the answers.

IMO for the control option to happen (Shep is literally taking the brat's place), they must have known about him. I'm starting to think that the first crucible's designers were the brat's creators. They were the ones who had the most knowledge about him. The Reapers (as simple warships) were also already there. The harvest takes time and the creators have put some resistance and meanwhile worked on the first version of the Crucible.
l never really had anything against the idea of using the Citadel for targetting the Reapers wherever they were. It's's still the best way to finish it quickly.

Anyways and as I already said I'll finish to read your thread and post directly there if I have any question.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 02 août 2012 - 05:23 .

[txgoldrush]

ld1449 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


Wrong....

Its a plot hole.

How does Joker know of the Conduit?

How would Joker strand Shep on Ilos? Hell, and people are whining about stranding him in ME3.....lol

With no direction and no information, Joker suddenly decides to strand Shep and join the fleet.

I smell a plot hole and a hypocrite.

Face it, ME1 ends with TWO Deus Ex Machinas.

Uhhhh because right after virmire Liara flat out says "THE CONDUIT IS ON ILOS"

Right on the Normandy

Mass Relay jumps are like a flare (stated by engineer adams in ME1) immagine how many flares went off on their screens when Saren was jumping a whole army of geth through that conduit not to mention that also in the books, Mass effect jumps can be traced.

Its not impossible to put two and two together.

Especially when they have no landing place within several miles and no car to get them there quickly (Shepard kinda took that one)

See. I don't need everything spelled out for me.

Its all right there if you read enough. Drew provided all the pieces.

Mac. He probably doesn't even know what pieces he's still missing.

I am not tlaking about where the Conduit is, but its function.

Please....Joker may not even be orbiting Ilos.....because you know, the geth fleet overhead.

Nevermind the Conduit is much smaller.

Its your handcanon thats it....its a plot hole plain and simple. Drew had to put the Normandy at the Citadel and he left a plot hole doing it.

Nevermind the whole quest for the Conduit is stupid.

[ld1449]

txgoldrush wrote...

I am not tlaking about where the Conduit is, but its function.

Please....Joker may not even be orbiting Ilos.....because you know, the geth fleet overhead.

Nevermind the Conduit is much smaller.

Its your handcanon thats it....its a plot hole plain and simple. Drew had to put the Normandy at the Citadel and he left a plot hole doing it.

Nevermind the whole quest for the Conduit is stupid.

Lol. Right. Whatever you say buddy.

Clearly I must have been living under a rock during the ME1 ****storm for the conduit mission.

Silly me for missing that one.

[LanceSolous13]

o Ventus wrote...

Dusen wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

It's sad that each subsequent level was worse than the level preceding it too.

As I've said, ME3 only got three things right...

Tuchunka
Rannoch
Combative Gameplay

Nothing more.

[Uncle Jo]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Dusen wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

It's sad that each subsequent level was worse than the level preceding it too.

As I've said, ME3 only got three things right...

Tuchunka
Rannoch
Combative Gameplay

Nothing more.

Please. One button to jump, take cover, run, activate something, pick a weapon on the floor, sh*t, masturbate...

[AresKeith]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Dusen wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

It's sad that each subsequent level was worse than the level preceding it too.

As I've said, ME3 only got three things right...

Tuchunka
Rannoch
Combative Gameplay

Nothing more.

I miss the action RPG that was Mass Effect

[ld1449]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Dusen wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I don't know about you, but Thessia was terrible.

IMO, everything starting with Thessia and afterwords was terrible.

It's sad that each subsequent level was worse than the level preceding it too.

As I've said, ME3 only got three things right...

Tuchunka
Rannoch
Combative Gameplay

Nothing more.

Well there was that one...no...no

Well how bout that...uhhh...

You know the...Yeah I don't got much here. Most of it was with Cerberus so most of it was touched up by Mac...

Damn.

[txgoldrush]

ld1449 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

I am not tlaking about where the Conduit is, but its function.

Please....Joker may not even be orbiting Ilos.....because you know, the geth fleet overhead.

Nevermind the Conduit is much smaller.

Its your handcanon thats it....its a plot hole plain and simple. Drew had to put the Normandy at the Citadel and he left a plot hole doing it.

Nevermind the whole quest for the Conduit is stupid.

Lol. Right. Whatever you say buddy.

Clearly I must have been living under a rock during the ME1 ****storm for the conduit mission.

Silly me for missing that one.

Please....you are grasping at straws defending a plot hole.

Nevermind the entire plot of ME1 being about finding a small transporter into the Citadel...its stupid..

Hell, Sovereign and Saren don't NEED the Conduit, they could have just attacked with geth and clone Krogan, as well as indoctrianted agents without even setting foot on Eden Prime, giving himself away.

Its Drew K trying to be clever than he is.

Nevermind that Liara's quest to get the Crucible was set up in LoTSB, so the Crucible doesn't "come out of nowhere". And nevermind you can piece the Crucibles functions and capabilities through the war assets and the Broker files.

[Ozzy]

Accicental post. Sorry.

Modifié par AstusOz, 02 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[ZackG312]

Who ever wrote the ending should be replaced

[Ozzy]

Bringing up the Crucible out the blue was stupid, I admit, but I also agree with txgoldrush in that Saren could have just gone and let the geth fleet in at the start of ME1. Well, at least after Eden Prime. He had the access and the trust. Still, he was an infinitely better antagonist than Timmy and Cerberus. And a Deus Ex Machina is much more easier to deal with in the first game rather than the freaking conclusion.

And this looks to have completely completely gone off the rails, lol.