851 réponses à ce sujet

[Oich]

Ziegrif wrote...

Umm I kinda did a Vanguard and turned him into a detonating adept.
Forgoed Charge and built Nova to just sustain and make it spammable (can do it 3-4 times before shield gate)
Shockwave went for complete Biosplosions.
Decided to just run to my targets.
It's actually really good and IMO one of the best detonator classes in the game and NO AIR VANGUARD!
Shield recharge I solved by giving the vanguards shield recharge gear and consumables.
I think this is one of the better builds because it requires the Vanguard players to play smart and keep an exit strategy that doesn't require charge. I even escaped once just spamming Nova was kinda silly but it worked!
Also didn't read the thread ^^;

If you want to play like a Vanguard but without Biotic Charge:

N7 Fury. It's a frontline character, with a shield-regen power (evolution) that can destroy groups of enemies at close range.  Bonus: Movement speed buff to simulate Biotic Charge! (Add your own sound effects)

Not close enough for you? N7 Shadow. Shadow Strike is a single-target biotic charge that seems to have a lower chance to glitch you. Maybe because it's slower. Bonus: Attacking shielded targets refills shields to simulate Biotic Charge! (Evolution)

No Biotic Charge AT ALL? N7 Paladin. Pro at CQC and being a "frontline character". Plus, super-awesome shield-bash melee. Bonus: Shield drain refills shields like Biotic Charge! At distance!

(kinda a joke post, kinda upset that the DLC vanguard is the worst DLC character at playing like a vanguard. (read: high risk/high reward) Well, other than Demolisher and Honey Badger Destroyer)

Semi-related note, I'd love any new vanguard to have a Field power like Annihilation Field. Something with Damage reduction instead of shield drain, or something.

Modifié par Oich, 21 août 2012 - 08:51 .

[Achire]

Gamemako wrote...

Achire wrote...

Oh man. Novaguard and Drell don't have enough Force to stagger Phantoms without taking Power Synergy or Force&Damage. Asari, Slayer and Smashguard have 1050 N even with Area Charge. Really sucks for the Drellguard.

Excellent observation. I will address this in my thread, which I will put out by tomorrow evening. Been sitting on my hands too long anyway.

It's actually funny to see: the Drell got none of his issues addressed (stagger, squish, low weapon damage) while other Vanguards got buffed more. I'm sure they'll look at addressing that discrepancy, though.

Somehow the Drellguard situation reminded me of this.

You just haven't earned it yet, baby
You must suffer and cry for a longer time

I was really hoping for some damage reduction buffs. Who knows we might get more invulnerability frames for Charge in the next patch. However it would have been nice to at least get a bone thrown to us when it comes to Platinum survivability.

Modifié par Achire, 21 août 2012 - 08:55 .

[Asebstos]

Gamemako wrote...

Asebstos wrote...

700? Does it only affect the base Lift Grenade stats?

Yes. Power damage bonuses are additive: each bonus applies to the base damage.

Multiplicative bonuses are generally limited to target types (e.g. +50% vs. barriers), Expose bonuses (e.g. +20% damage taken from Proximity Mine), and the occassional weapon-type bonus (limited to the +25% to sniper rifles from Cloak).

Ah, ok, now I get it.

Still, right now the Asari Vangaurd is doing (if I got the math right this time) 1967.5 damage with fully maxed out Lift grenades after a charge, before gear/consumable bonuses

[Alien Number Six]

With the Vanguard class I tend to use charge as a way of knocking back a enemy at close range or getting across the map to help someone. I never over use the power so getting into a bad situation dosen't occur as much. Also I buff my weapons over my powers so the gun in my hand isn't worthless.

[Ziegrif]

Allright after reading a bit more of the thread I get what ya'll mean ya'll want something that's 50-50 adept and soldier.

I apologize for my remarks earlier in the thread.

Still I actually like them as they are and see no problems about how they handle.
I enjoy them as adepts as they are. Gona read the thread a it more indepth now.

[RamsenC]

Achire wrote...

Oh man. Novaguard and Drell don't have enough Force to stagger Phantoms without taking Power Synergy or Force&Damage. Asari, Slayer and Smashguard have 1050 N even with Area Charge. Really sucks for the Drellguard.

So Slayer, Asari, and Smashguard can stagger phantoms with area charge and weapon synergy? Just want to make sure. Poor Drellguard :/

[Achire]

That is indeed the case. The Phantom stagger threshold is 1000 N on both Platinum and Gold. Drellguard/Novaguard get 990 N with Area Charge and Weapon Synergy.

[Mazandus]

I have a couple of questions here.

Where is the high risk/high reward mantra I keep reading here coming from? Is this something on the Mass Effect codex about Vanguards being "high risk/high reward?"

Also what is the expected outcome of a Biotic Charge? What do you people expect/want to happen? The whole screen explode? Enemies die instantly? The fleee in terror?

What is fundamentally different between this:



&

this that I don't get because I think Charge is awesome as is.

Modifié par Mazandus, 21 août 2012 - 09:13 .

[Achire]

Do you play a non-Krogan Vanguard on Platinum? The difference, by the way, is that ME2 Vanguards get a double damage bonus for short range shots. ME3 Vanguards don't.

Modifié par Achire, 21 août 2012 - 09:15 .

[Gamemako]

Achire wrote...

I was really hoping for some damage reduction buffs. Who knows we might get more invulnerability frames for Charge in the next patch. However it would have been nice to at least get a bone thrown to us when it comes to Platinum survivability.

Yeah. I'm sure they're still contemplating what to do. The DR issue is easily the most complex due to the way things stack.

Asebstos wrote...

Ah, ok, now I get it.

Still, right now the Asari Vangaurd is doing (if I got the math right this time) 1967.5 damage with fully maxed out Lift grenades after a charge, before gear/consumable bonuses

1575 before Power Synergy, 1855 after. Assuming all power damage bonuses are taken.

[Gamemako]

Achire wrote...

Do you play a non-Krogan Vanguard on Platinum? The difference, by the way, is that ME2 Vanguards get a double damage bonus for short range shots. ME3 Vanguards don't.

Quoted for truth, bolded for emphasis. Vanguards get damn-near-useless weapon damage in ME3, which is why they end up being gimped adepts.

Modifié par Gamemako, 21 août 2012 - 09:17 .

[godlike13]

Mazandus wrote...

What is fundamentally different between this:



&

this that I don't get because I think Charge is awesome as is.

Well the shotgun and 100% point blank bonus multiplier.

[Gamemako]

Mazandus wrote...

Where is the high risk/high reward mantra I keep reading here coming from? Is this something on the Mass Effect codex about Vanguards being "high risk/high reward?"

The class description is as follows:

Vanguards are feared for their high-risk, high-reward combat style, closing quickly on enemies and destroying them at short range with weapons and biotic abilities. They are outfitted with L5n implants, enabling them to perform a biotic charge that strikes the opponent with incredible force while bringing the Vanguard in for close-range combat.

Modifié par Gamemako, 21 août 2012 - 09:19 .

[Mazandus]

godlike13 wrote...

Mazandus wrote...

What is fundamentally different between this:



&

this that I don't get because I think Charge is awesome as is.

Well the shotgun and 100% point blank bonus multiplier.

And Biotic detonations. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Biotic Charge couldn't detonate Biotic Exploisions in ME2. It can in ME3. Again, what is the problem? I literally searched youtube for 3 seconds and found this kid blowing up everything in sight. Yes it requires teamwork. But what doesn't aside from Infiltrators?

[Mazandus]

Gamemako wrote...

Mazandus wrote...

Where is the high risk/high reward mantra I keep reading here coming from? Is this something on the Mass Effect codex about Vanguards being "high risk/high reward?"

The class description is as follows:

Vanguards are feared for their high-risk, high-reward combat style, closing quickly on enemies and destroying them at short range with weapons and biotic abilities. They are outfitted with L5n implants, enabling them to perform a biotic charge that strikes the opponent with incredible force while bringing the Vanguard in for close-range combat.

And today they just buffed the Weapon damage evolution to 25%!! Yes there are bugs and it sucks to play Vanguard as non host, but what is the expectation? That everything will just melt and die like in Bronze and Silver?

[Achire]

^ #1 reason I don't post Platinum videos.

Anyway got a reply from Fagnan regarding survivability issues:

"Thanks for the feedback. The problem we're facing is that we don't want to make charge too good on lower difficulties. By increasing the survivability a little on Platinum, we make it a lot better on Bronze/Silver, where most of our players play "

[RamsenC]

Just compare Charge to Adrenaline Rush. Look what they both offer, because it's actually pretty similar. The difference is AR is a no risk move, there's never a case where you shouldn't use it, but at the same time offers far better combat bonuses.

These buffs are a step in the right direction at least.

[megawug]

No complaints after the buff. Glitch still needs to be fixed. Still probably too risky to charge in platinum (other than kroguard), but gold is definitely possible now without being totally suicidal.

Did a quick test... nice to see phantoms staggering in platinum, let me tell you.

[Mazandus]

Achire wrote...

^ #1 reason I don't post Platinum videos.

Anyway got a reply from Fagnan regarding survivability issues:

"Thanks for the feedback. The problem we're facing is that we don't want to make charge too good on lower difficulties. By increasing the survivability a little on Platinum, we make it a lot better on Bronze/Silver, where most of our players play :)"

Well there's our answer then. That actually kind of sucks. I wonder why the damage output is so high on Bronze/Silver then for Novaguard's especially. What an odd response.

[Gamemako]

Mazandus wrote...

And Biotic detonations. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Biotic Charge couldn't detonate Biotic Exploisions in ME2. It can in ME3. Again, what is the problem? I literally searched youtube for 3 seconds and found this kid blowing up everything in sight. Yes it requires teamwork. But what doesn't aside from Infiltrators?

Anything else, really. Would you like me to start posting my exploits as a Batarian Sentinel on Platinum? How about N7 Destroyer? Female Quarian Engineer, even?

You CAN, with a team built for the job from the ground up and enormous amounts of teamwork, survive with a Human Vanguard. What's missing from that video is that you could take him out and just do it with 4 Furies faster, and that no other class requires that kind of extreme coordination to survive at all.

Mazandus wrote...

And today they just buffed the Weapon damage evolution to 25%!! Yes there are bugs and it sucks to play Vanguard as non host, but what is the expectation? That everything will just melt and die like in Bronze and Silver?

25% of base. It's additive. Before that, you might have 90% (20% from class, 25% from barrel, 15% from gear, 30% from amp) or more (once you add in ammo power). So it's effectively a ~13% weapon boost over what any other character in the storm will have. Compare to, say, the ever-unimpressive Human Soldier, you're doing considerably less damage and putting your ass on the line to do it.

There are two ways you can address the issue: either you mitigate the risk or you offer appropriate reward. BioWare has taken both routes.

[megawug]

Does anyone know what the stagger and knockback values are for platinum? All I know for sure is that phantoms are now set to gold levels (700, 1000). But that implies platinum force levels are higher than gold....

[Achire]

The saddest part about the video is that one of the Furies had to always keep a Missile Launcher equipped in case the Vanguard gets grabbed. Not many classes need their own babysitter.

Modifié par Achire, 21 août 2012 - 09:42 .

[Shampoohorn]

Achire wrote...

That is indeed the case. The Phantom stagger threshold is 1000 N on both Platinum and Gold. Drellguard/Novaguard get 990 N with Area Charge and Weapon Synergy.

Drellguards get less don't they?

600N base force
+35% from DrellAssn
+30% from Charge Rank 3
990N total force if they then choose ArCharge and WeapSyn

1230N With either ArCharge or WeapSyn (each now 40%)

1470N when opting for Force/Dam and PowerSyn(+40%+40%)

Where do you get the 165 difference between 825 and 990?

edit:  my mistake. on base numbers

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 21 août 2012 - 09:53 .

[Mazandus]

Gamemako wrote...

There are two ways you can address the issue: either you mitigate the risk or you offer appropriate reward. BioWare has taken both routes.

I don't like response Achire got from the Fagnan. Makes me wonder...Do they actually balance this game around Silver then?

[Gamemako]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Drellguards get less don't they?

500N base force
+35% from DrellAssn
+30% from Charge Rank 3
825N total force if they then choose ArCharge and WeapSyn

1025N With either ArCharge or WeapSyn (each now 40%)

1225N when opting for Force/Dam and PowerSyn(+40%+40%)

Where do you get the 165 difference between 825 and 990?

Your error, now in bold.