851 réponses à ce sujet

[Shampoohorn]

Gamemako wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...


Drellguards get less don't they?

600N base force
+35% from DrellAssn
+30% from Charge Rank 3
990N total force if they then choose ArCharge and WeapSyn

1230N With either ArCharge or WeapSyn (each now 40%)

1470N when opting for Force/Dam and PowerSyn(+40%+40%)

Where do you get the 165 difference between 825 and 990?

edit:  My mistake. Mistake corrected!

Your error, now in bold.

Dammit!  Thanks.  I cut an pasted it earlier to excel and missed that part.  I'll fix above.

Area charge plus power synergy on the drell will now stagger phantoms.  I can live with that.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 21 août 2012 - 10:06 .

[Gamemako]

Mazandus wrote...

I don't like response Achire got from the Fagnan. Makes me wonder...Do they actually balance this game around Silver then?

They most certainly do balance with Silver in mind. I don't think that means they balance around Silver. It's more that they try to balance for all difficulties, and some changes which are pretty well needed for Platinum will make you a deity on lower difficulties. To deal with that, you either modify the difficulty levels themselves (as they did with Phantom stagger levels) or you look for alternative ways to buff that don't break other difficulties completely.

[disappearingone11]

Ziegrif wrote...

Allright after reading a bit more of the thread I get what ya'll mean ya'll want something that's 50-50 adept and soldier.

I apologize for my remarks earlier in the thread.

Still I actually like them as they are and see no problems about how they handle.
I enjoy them as adepts as they are. Gona read the thread a it more indepth now.

It doesn't have to be an even split, and I actually wouldn't want it to be for all races because some naturally lean one way or the other. But having all non-Krogans skewed way to the adept side seriously devalues BC because it requires some durability. If you're too fragile to use it, then you have to fall back on your remaining two abilities, most of which don't complement each other, and that leads to a gimped character. So, closer to 50:50, and mainly in the survivability department.

[megawug]

Well, as it stands now, BC is skewed towards gold. My feeling is that it's way, way OP'ed in bronze, powerful in silver, decent in gold, difficult in platinum.

[disappearingone11]

Achire wrote...

^ #1 reason I don't post Platinum videos.

Anyway got a reply from Fagnan regarding survivability issues:

"Thanks for the feedback. The problem we're facing is that we don't want to make charge too good on lower difficulties. By increasing the survivability a little on Platinum, we make it a lot better on Bronze/Silver, where most of our players play :)"

Well maybe if they make bronze and silver too easy for most people, more will graduate to gold and platinum.

[Oich]

Achire wrote...

Not many classes need their own babysitter.

I'd be tickled if this made it's way into the thread title.

[TehMerc]

disappearingone11 wrote...

Well maybe if they make bronze and silver too easy for most people, more will graduate to gold and platinum.

Yeah, you still need to be more alert and aware while charging on lower levels than most classes anyway, it's still putting more effort in.

Was glad to see some buffs but was a bit too conservative to be of great help. But it means they're actually looking at vanguard issues so it's a win.

Weapon damage evolution needs to be at least 40% to be useful, and I don't see why it can't be in the range of 8 seconds long.

[Pancakes71]

Achire wrote...

Do you play a non-Krogan Vanguard on Platinum? The difference, by the way, is that ME2 Vanguards get a double damage bonus for short range shots. ME3 Vanguards don't.

Double damage bonus + shotguns had such a large spread that in point blank you dealt like 4 times the damage you would from let's say, 5 metres away. That's why charge was an offensive power, although it almost dealt no damage.

[Ziegrif]

disappearingone11 wrote...
It doesn't have to be an even split, and I actually wouldn't want it to be for all races because some naturally lean one way or the other. But having all non-Krogans skewed way to the adept side seriously devalues BC because it requires some durability. If you're too fragile to use it, then you have to fall back on your remaining two abilities, most of which don't complement each other, and that leads to a gimped character. So, closer to 50:50, and mainly in the survivability department.

Would a Defense Matrix, Concussive shot/ Carnage/ Frag grenades/ Something that uses shields and is a combat power and charge be a better Vanguard then?

[Gamemako]

TehMerc wrote...

Weapon damage evolution needs to be at least 40% to be useful, and I don't see why it can't be in the range of 8 seconds long.

No no no, the point is that the buff lasts only as long as the Vanguard persists in his aggression. I want the buffs to stay that way, and to the same end, I suggested the 15s->10s duration nerf to Power Synergy duration in my own buff thread over at the balance group (which will be made into a public thread soon enough). Now that it's been implemented, I can remove it. <3

[TehMerc]

Gamemako wrote...

No no no, the point is that the buff lasts only as long as the Vanguard persists in his aggression. I want the buffs to stay that way, and to the same end, I suggested the 15s->10s duration nerf to Power Synergy duration in my own buff thread over at the balance group (which will be made into a public thread soon enough). Now that it's been implemented, I can remove it. <3

Eh, I can see the reasoning but It'd be nice to use some cover as you move up. It'd certainly make the glitch less of a liability if you don't have to charge at all times to keep up damage.

If vanguards need to stay in the fight at all times to be useful it really needs to start rivalling Adrenaline Rush imo.

[Pedro Costa]

Achire wrote...
"Thanks for the feedback. The problem we're facing is that we don't want to make charge too good on lower difficulties. By increasing the survivability a little on Platinum, we make it a lot better on Bronze/Silver, where most of our players play :)"

I kept my Vanguards in Silver because I didn't have enough survivability/power output to go vanguard'ing gold frequently, tho, so, imo, if vanguards were buffed, most of the silver ones would "upgrade" to gold, at the very least.

By the way, I for one am rather happy with the biotic charge upgrade.

And regarding the not enough power to stagger phantoms with area charge, wouldn't a Power Amp V do the trick?

[tonnactus]

TehMerc wrote...


Weapon damage evolution needs to be at least 40% to be useful, and I don't see why it can't be in the range of 8 seconds long.

Regarding that Vanguard dont get short range damage multipliers anymore, 40 percent should be innate after a charge. And additional 40-60 percent for shotguns only. That would put the  weapon damage output of the Vanguard class on par with Soldiers and Infiltrators.
But the recent buffs are atleast a start.

[RecoonHoodie]

I like the new changes. But Drell needs a slight force buff, also the weapon bonus is tooo little. BioWare should make it at least 40%

[Pedro Costa]

Ok, just did a Gold match with a full-Nova vanguard.
Great news, where I needed half-blast and cyclonic II, I no longer need any gear to be an asset to the team.

Does Charge's power synergy apply to Nova? Because I didn't really see much difference on Nova damage after a power synergy spec'd Charge.

[aetheldod]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Achire wrote...
"Thanks for the feedback. The problem we're facing is that we don't want to make charge too good on lower difficulties. By increasing the survivability a little on Platinum, we make it a lot better on Bronze/Silver, where most of our players play :)"

I kept my Vanguards in Silver because I didn't have enough survivability/power output to go vanguard'ing gold frequently, tho, so, imo, if vanguards were buffed, most of the silver ones would "upgrade" to gold, at the very least.

By the way, I for one am rather happy with the biotic charge upgrade.

And regarding the not enough power to stagger phantoms with area charge, wouldn't a Power Amp V do the trick?

The only Vanguard I took to Gold was Phoenix because I could use smash then detonate with BC ....  I could take the damage and have enough time to recharge power to pull out a BC before I died (and I still had to do some dodging) now with the Smash nerf this is completely useless and now I dont have a good Vanguard for gold not to mention Platinum

[MP-Ryan]

Achire wrote...

Oh man. Novaguard and Drell don't have enough Force to stagger Phantoms without taking Power Synergy or Force&Damage. Asari, Slayer and Smashguard have 1050 N even with Area Charge. Really sucks for the Drellguard.

I'm away at the moment and therefore unable to test - Achire, can you or someone else confirm that asari, phoenix, and slayer now all reliably stagger phantoms on platinum with BOTH area charge and weapon synergy?  If that's the case, all three should now be more useful in platinum matches... hopefully less Biotic slash spam, more charge/nova-errr, disrupter.

I was pleasantly surprised to see BC in this week's balance changes, but they've still missed the boat when it comes to survivability.  I saw Fagnan's response, but since enemies can be adjusted on a per-difficulty basis, you'd think there'd be a mechanism for player adjustment too.  Either that, or just admit that the novaguard is always going to be at the top or the top performer on bronze/silver, and make them viable for those of us that love it and would love to bring some Nova to platinum.

[MP-Ryan]

aetheldod wrote...

The only Vanguard I took to Gold was Phoenix because I could use smash then detonate with BC ....  I could take the damage and have enough time to recharge power to pull out a BC before I died (and I still had to do some dodging) now with the Smash nerf this is completely useless and now I dont have a good Vanguard for gold not to mention Platinum

Kroguard's excel in both platinum and gold (for vanguards, anyway).  Slayers are viable in both, but perhaps not as ideal (or true assets).  Novaguards are viable and can be assets in gold.  Asari are viable in gold.

[Pedro Costa]

MP-Ryan wrote...
Either that, or just admit that the novaguard is always going to be at the top or the top performer on bronze/silver, and make them viable for those of us that love it and would love to bring some Nova to platinum.

Agreed, I don't see what would change apart from being able to bring them to gold and platinum and have some fun instead of frustration.

also, my comment about Adaptive War Amp V, forget it guys, I'm stupid, I forgot power amps don't affect force.

[disappearingone11]

Ziegrif wrote...

Would a Defense Matrix, Concussive shot/ Carnage/ Frag grenades/ Something that uses shields and is a combat power and charge be a better Vanguard then?

Not sure about DM because it's more of an engineering/tech specialty, but potentially yes to the others, though we'd have to take them on a case by case basis with each character, and I don't want to delve into that kind of detail without a lot of number crunching for balancing issues and whatnot. Of course carnage is already on one vanguard, though it's little used because the Kroguard is so strong in other areas. But as far as fitting him well enough, sure, it works.

My basic idea of how a vanguard should be built is this: BC is universal and should be the signature ability (and it's been partially fixed now, so it's somewhat more viable). Vanguards shouldn't spam it or rely wholly on it--they still need to use common sense and not be reckless--but it should be utilized as much as or more than secondary powers.

Regarding those, they should include one biotic ability and one soldier ability, and one of the two (preferably the biotic one for BE's) should work well in conjunction with BC. Some vanguards have this kind of setup, though few have the complementary aspect down (i.e. the Drell).

Lastly, because BC encourages close combat (as does the class concept in general), vanguards should be durable enough to handle it, even if only for a short time before finding cover. They shouldn't necessarily have the same toughness as a pure soldier, but they should certainly have more than an adept. And while the main purpose of this is survivability, it's also for melee proficiency, which is one of the reasons why the Kroguard gets away with a relatively weak soldier power. The others shouldn't dish out his level of melee damage of course, but they should be able to do a lot more than they currently can. Technically, they can do more by speccing for melee in the fitness tree, but only at the expense of health/barriers, and going from squishy to glass isn't a viable option.

[Methew]

Just to double check it's a 1000 N to stagger anything on Gold/Plat right?

[Gamemako]

TehMerc wrote...

If vanguards need to stay in the fight at all times to be useful it really needs to start rivalling Adrenaline Rush imo.

My thoughts exactly, and that's how I balanced it in my previous calculations. My buff would put him about on par with a Human Soldier built for damage resistance using the same gun.

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Does Charge's power synergy apply to Nova? Because I didn't really see much difference on Nova damage after a power synergy spec'd Charge.

Yes, it does apply. However, Nova does only 350 base damage (less than Charge now, haha!) and therefore gets all of 140 bonus damage from Power Synergy (or 280 against armor/shields and 360 against barrier).

[Pedro Costa]

Gamemako wrote...
Yes, it does apply. However, Nova does only 350 base damage (less than Charge now, haha!) and therefore gets all of 140 bonus damage from Power Synergy (or 280 against armor/shields and 360 against barrier).

Oh well, at least Charge got some love, so I can't really complain this week =P
Thanks for the info

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 22 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Psycho Pisces]

I laughed at the vanguard changes today, I was on the phone w/ my bro reading changes during his lunch break...

Nice buffs, now if only you weren't fundamentally useless the second you used them in a crisis! Please give me my vanguard to use as a class Bioware.. prz?

[atum]

tonnactus wrote...

TehMerc wrote...


Weapon damage evolution needs to be at least 40% to be useful, and I don't see why it can't be in the range of 8 seconds long.

Regarding that Vanguard dont get short range damage multipliers anymore, 40 percent should be innate after a charge. And additional 40-60 percent for shotguns only. That would put the  weapon damage output of the Vanguard class on par with Soldiers and Infiltrators.
But the recent buffs are atleast a start.

this is a joke right?