851 réponses à ce sujet

[MP-Ryan]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I actually use a 6/6/3/5/6 on my Slayer, it's the most effective build for me.
http://narida.pytalh...9@0YEROF4I4@0@0

I 3xPD -> Charge -> 3x light melee -> Charge, and use the Talon where it seems appropriate.

Ditto, though I tend to use Disciple+Acolyte as my Talon is only level 2 and too heavy.  Cooldown reduction is a must on that build.

I just treat PD as a ranged nova - PD from a distance, charge, meleeX3, extricate myself to cover, repeat.  I'm just not very enamored with the slayer because it should play like a Phantom, but with PD eating barriers and the fact that he's squishy as hell to begin with, he's very underwhelming as compared to the Novaguard and Kroguard.  Shame, too, because you'd think it would be a lot of fun.  I actually think biotic slash in general hurts the slayer - he would have been a lot better with PD and Barrier as his two active powers, as they synergize much better.  Biotic slash just turns him into a wall-spammer for most people, and we already have the Phoenix with that ability, and the Shadow.

Were the slayer equipped with BC, PD, barrier, Training, Fitness and fitness was sword mastery with better melee bonuses, you'd have a melee-based vanguard to rival the Krogan.  Instead, the kroguard outclasses it.

[disappearingone11]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I actually use a 6/6/3/5/6 on my Slayer, it's the most effective build for me.
http://narida.pytalh...9@0YEROF4I4@0@0

I 3xPD -> Charge -> 3x light melee -> Charge, and use the Talon where it seems appropriate.

BS is just suicide to use when exposed. I may actually try a 6/6/0/6/6 build to help with shotgun weight instead.

My problem with PD is that it's great to use before engaging, but once in melee range, using it is really dangerous, and I can rarely get 3 blasts off before my barriers go down from damage alone. But on the plus side, it's a heck of banshee/brute killer.

MP-Ryan wrote...

Ditto, though I tend to use Disciple+Acolyte as my Talon is only level 2 and too heavy. Cooldown reduction is a must on that build.

I just treat PD as a ranged nova - PD from a distance, charge, meleeX3, extricate myself to cover, repeat. I'm just not very enamored with the slayer because it should play like a Phantom, but with PD eating barriers and the fact that he's squishy as hell to begin with, he's very underwhelming as compared to the Novaguard and Kroguard. Shame, too, because you'd think it would be a lot of fun. I actually think biotic slash in general hurts the slayer - he would have been a lot better with PD and Barrier as his two active powers, as they synergize much better. Biotic slash just turns him into a wall-spammer for most people, and we already have the Phoenix with that ability, and the Shadow.

Were the slayer equipped with BC, PD, barrier, Training, Fitness and fitness was sword mastery with better melee bonuses, you'd have a melee-based vanguard to rival the Krogan. Instead, the kroguard outclasses it.

If PD gave you invincibility frames like nova, it would work great, but again, I don't like that concept. And yes, BS is way too slow to be useful for anything other than hitting through walls, just like the Phoenix' smash.

Barrier would actually help the entire class greatly, especially since you can spec it for more durability or power damage. I wouldn't want to flat out give it to all vanguards, but various alterations of the power could possibly work: aid durability while improving power, weapon, or melee damage. And every vanguard has a disposable power worth replacing.

Modifié par disappearingone11, 25 août 2012 - 04:59 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Eviscerator and high-level Talon are my go-to novaguard weapons with both doing extremely high burst damage given their respective weights and frequent procing of tech bursts. I rely on disruptor ammo as a kind of secondary nova and will not equip an other ammo type on a novaguard. Tech bursts are a true AOE effect as far as I know and will increase your overall damage output and survivability. I try to keep cooldown above 180%.

Shoot (wait for proc) -> Charge -> Tech bursts -> Nova, Shoot (look for a proc) -> Charge -> Tech burst -> Nova. With area charge, full nova, disruptor ammo, and a power efficiency mod you will be a constant stream of staggers with a VERY low cooldown. This build plays extremely fast requiring snap shots and good reflexes.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 25 août 2012 - 04:48 .

[Achire]

In coalesced.bin tech bursts have an upper limit of 4 targets. The problem is it's really hard to say how many targets it hits with the graphical effect. It's better than Nova in any case.

Modifié par Achire, 25 août 2012 - 06:40 .

[Quething]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

I've got top score on most Cerberus gold matches with a full-novaguard after I decided to step up to Gold, my problem is how often I die =/

Haha, see, I hate dying. Nothing makes me feel like more of a burden to my team (even though my gethfiltrator buddy considers the stealth rez the best form of class synergy in the game. He's such a sweetheart ). So I play a little more conservatively and spend more time straggler herding and doing trash cleanup during the later rounds when there are too many phantoms and turrets around. The patch has made me feel able to be more aggressive for longer but I'm still staying out of the fray more than I'd like in the last few rounds just in order to stay off the floor.

Anyway, I tried out a few more games. My melee smashguard did surprisingly well on Cerb/Hydra/Gold - I spent a crazy amount of time on the floor but I wasn't honestly playing particularly smart (roll away from grenades, Q). The biggest issue was actually Guardians, who didn't seem to ever do the shield-shake stagger animation properly when I charged them, though I did also get instagibbed by a phantom who failed to stagger. Reapers/Goddess/Gold also went quite well until the game crashed (if you're reading this, poor three puggers who got host-dropped in the middle of an objective round, I'm sorry ).

Novaguard (half-blast) Reapers Gold was basically the same as I remember it, though. Not that hard to stay alive if you're paying attention, but a good sharp stick would do more damage. Maybe if I could get that damn Piranha to level...

Modifié par Quething, 25 août 2012 - 06:52 .

[Achire]

Achire wrote...
I see where you're coming from. You don't want all the Vanguards to be like the Kroguard, essentially immortal on lower difficulties. Kroguard definitely shouldn't get any survivability buffs, but they have a separate Charge ability. Upping the DR from 50% (effectively 37.5%) to 65% (48.75%) or 70% (52.5%) for non-Krogan is still less than what the Kroguard gets with the 50% from Charge and the 25-40% from Barrier. Furthermore Kroguard has double the base Shields of all the other Vanguards (quadruple what the Drellguard gets), and this also makes Cyclonic Modulators and Shield Gear much more effective on him. It's the combination of stagger immunity, high combined DR and extremely high Shields (boosted massively by Cyclonic IV) that makes Kroguards immortal.

The beauty of upping the Charge DR as a way to help the survivability on Platinum is that it encourages people to use Charge, since the DR effect only lasts 4 seconds. It promotes an aggressive, Vanguard-like playstyle. The downside is that DR effects stack with inverse diminishing returns, so you have to be quite careful when adjusting them. One of the biggest problems with Vanguards on Platinum is losing your entire shield bar the instant Charge lands before you can do anything, but fixing that would require a patch that adds more invulnerability frames.

As for the stagger issue (only 990N Area Charge for Drell/Novaguard), it's a measly 10 N buff. Just up the base force to 610, and problem solved. The Drellguard can then spec for Area Charge and Weapon Synergy and still stagger Phantoms.

Speaking of the Drell, please move some of that excessive Health into Barrier. Instead of 500/250 base it should be 400/350 or 350/400. Hardly any difference on Silver, big difference on Platinum where you're using Cyclonic Modulators. I understand the greatness of Drell Adept is holding the Drell Vanguard back, but Grenade Gear V Drell Adept is not the same murder machine on Platinum where there are less mooks to get explosions off of.

Back to the "overpowered on Silver, pretty bad on Platinum" theme, Nova. Charge now has a higher base damage (400) than Nova (350). Nova damage and force could use a moderate bump to match the Charge buffs. Most of the evolutions are fine except for Radius and Sustain, but I don't really see a way to make them worthwhile in the slightest even with significant buffs to the numbers. What could use a buff is the Power Recharge bonus (that stacks with itself). A buff to 30% or 35% would shorten the massive 12 second ramp-up to get to full speed and invulnerability frames.

That's my Vanguard wishlist. I don't think it would break the game on Silver. Any more than I can already break the game on Silver in any case

Again, thanks for listening and giving Vanguards the buffs we just got.
- Achire

This is what I sent to Fagnan.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Thanks for the suggestions. I can't promise anything but you have some interesting ideas.

And this is what he replied.

Modifié par Achire, 25 août 2012 - 07:08 .

[atum]

tonnactus wrote...

...(removed for brevity)....

[*]The Vanguard is a powerful combatant, able to combine the offensive powers of the Adept and the Soldier

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Vanguard

So what offensive power of a Soldier means?
Weapon damage,in the case of the Vanguard, damage with pistols and shotguns comparable to that what soldier could deal.
Also some surviability.

And by the way, far more weight capacity or shotguns should get an innate weight reduction for them. Absurd enough to see so many Vanguards with pistols to keep their cooldown low.

Been meaning to reply to this but I didn't 100% understand what you are saying.  I'm guessing English isn't your first language, but my typos are terrible too -- I'm not criticizing, but I was confused about what you were trying to say.


So to make it more simple:  You can't have everything.

I'm 100% OK with Vanguards getting a small bump to weapon synergy.  However, I dont think they should have the weapon damage of soldiers and infiltrators simply because Biotic Charge is an amazing ability.  I dont think they need any shotgun weight buffs either. (Can't a Vanguard get 200% or nearly 200% with a Piranha?).

I agree they need a secondary way to deal damage (via powers or weapons) but there needs to be a drawback somewhere.  The "high risk" of being close to an enemy isn't a very big drawback*.  It's also already somewhat balanced by shields replenshing and the high mobility of Vanguards (the most mobile class in general).

So I think that it's unreasonable to ask for ALL of the following:

- High mobility
- Shields replenshed
- High durability (such as damage reduction)
- Low cooldowns
- High damage
- Ability to stagger


Something has to be a drawback.  Soldiers have high damage and good durability but bad mobility.

If these were options, where Vanguards could pick between durability and damage (or some other combo), that would make sense.  Just as Half Blast vs Full Blast makes sense.  Just as the N7 Shadow has to decide between damage and Shield replenishment.

If you want the option of the same high damage of the Adept and Soldier, then you should lose some durability or mobility.  As a combo of the pure classes, it's not logical that you do as well as both of the pure classes with their main skill.

Vanguards are doing much better since the buff.  I find it a bit suprising to hear people complain about them.  And I have been playing a Novaguard and Asariguard a fair amount since the changes. 

* I also think Archie has expressed the correct issue still plaguing Vanguards: staggers and stuns.  But that plagues a lot of classes.

Modifié par atum, 25 août 2012 - 07:22 .

[Pedro Costa]

[quote]MP-Ryan wrote...
Ditto, though I tend to use Disciple+Acolyte as my Talon is only level 2 and too heavy.  Cooldown reduction is a must on that build.[/quote]
I actually think I can get away with a Piranha X using this strategy... if only I had one.
[quote]I just treat PD as a ranged nova - PD from a distance, charge, meleeX3, extricate myself to cover, repeat.[/quote]
Depends on the occasion, but I usually just make sure Charge is ready to go, a target is avaiable, and PD 1x or 2x and charge him repeating the process.
[quote]I'm just not very enamored with the slayer because it should play like a Phantom, but with PD eating barriers and the fact that he's squishy as hell to begin with, he's very underwhelming as compared to the Novaguard and Kroguard.[/quote]
I actually think the Shadow should have been the one playing like a Phantom, but I agree that the Slayer is, surprise, surprise, underwhelming for its role.
[quote]Shame, too, because you'd think it would be a lot of fun.  I actually think biotic slash in general hurts the slayer - he would have been a lot better with PD and Barrier as his two active powers, as they synergize much better.  Biotic slash just turns him into a wall-spammer for most people, and we already have the Phoenix with that ability, and the Shadow.[/quote]
Absolutely true. But then again, I also think Barrier would fit well with any Vanguard, especially the Novaguard.
[quote]
Were the slayer equipped with BC, PD, barrier, Training, Fitness and fitness was sword mastery with better melee bonuses, you'd have a melee-based vanguard to rival the Krogan.  Instead, the kroguard outclasses it.
[/quote]
Actually, the problem with giving him the Sword Mastery tree is in the health, not the melee bonuses. Even at 825 health/barrier he's, like you said, squishy as crap.
[quote]disappearingone11 wrote...
BS is just suicide to use when exposed. I may actually try a 6/6/0/6/6 build to help with shotgun weight instead.
[/quote]
Not a bad idea either, but I like BS for when I'm doing Hack Objectives
[quote]My problem with PD is that it's great to use before engaging, but once in melee range, using it is really dangerous, and I can rarely get 3 blasts off before my barriers go down from damage alone.[/quote]
I don't think it's suppose to be used in melee range. It's effectively, a ranged Nova, I think it should be treated as such.
[quote]But on the plus side, it's a heck of banshee/brute killer.[/quote]
I prefer the shield upgrade since it's what I fight against the most.
[quote]If PD gave you invincibility frames like nova, it would work great, but again, I don't like that concept. And yes, BS is way too slow to be useful for anything other than hitting through walls, just like the Phoenix' smash.[/quote]
I disagree based on what I said earlier: it's a ranged Nova, you shouldn't use it in melee range. It should have DR, yes, but not invincibility frames.

[quote]Destructo-Bot wrote...

Eviscerator and high-level Talon are my go-to novaguard weapons with both doing extremely high burst damage given their respective weights and frequent procing of tech bursts. I rely on disruptor ammo as a kind of secondary nova and will not equip an other ammo type on a novaguard. Tech bursts are a true AOE effect as far as I know and will increase your overall damage output and survivability. I try to keep cooldown above 180%.[/quote]
I love the Eviscerator since ME2, but only find it really good on Bronze and Silver, on Gold it doesn't feel as powerful/useful. Would definitely use it in Gold if it did the same damage at level X that a Wraith does at level I, tho.
[quote]Quething wrote...
Haha, see, I hate dying. Nothing makes me feel like more of a burden to my team (even though my gethfiltrator buddy considers the stealth rez the best form of class synergy in the game. He's such a sweetheart [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]). So I play a little more conservatively and spend more time straggler herding and doing trash cleanup during the later rounds when there are too many phantoms and turrets around. The patch has made me feel able to be more aggressive for longer but I'm still staying out of the fray more than I'd like in the last few rounds just in order to stay off the floor.[/quote] 
Oh, I agree to an extent. I also think dying isn't helping much, but if the squad is focused on a Boss, I'm there with them either helping on the boss itself or cleaning up what's around the boss so they can focus fire without worries. If there's an objective and there's a high risk of the team getting swarmed, I'm charging around them trying to get rid of as much trash as I can before too many get close.

Achire, I fully agree with everything you sent to Eric. Thank you. And thank you too Eric (if you're reading this) for the buffs we got and further looking into it.

[quote]atum wrote...
I dont think they need any shotgun weight buffs either. (Can't a Vanguard get 200% or nearly 200% with a Piranha?).[/quote]
I do, but not by much either. Maybe more 10 or 15% weight reduction on shotguns, and shotguns alone.
[quote]
Something has to be a drawback.  Soldiers have high damage and good durability but bad mobility. 

If these were options, where Vanguards could pick between durability and damage (or some other combo), that would make sense.  Just as Half Blast vs Full Blast makes sense.  Just as the N7 Shadow has to decide between damage and Shield replenishment. [/quote]
I absolutely agree with this, Vanguards should have been built with this sort of concept in mind.
Even the Kroguard fails in this respect because he gets everything instead of one or the other.

[quote]
Vanguards are doing much better since the buff.  I find it a bit suprising to hear people complain about them.  And I have been playing a Novaguard and Asariguard a fair amount since the changes.[/quote]
Oh, it's insanely better, I agree as much, the more I play the more I notice it, but there are still areas that can, and should, be improved, and I think Achire has them pretty well defined.
[quote]
* I also think Archie has expressed the correct issue still plaguing Vanguards: staggers and stuns.  But that plagues a lot of classes.
[/quote] 
True, but the difference, for me, is that the other classes aren't meant to be in melee range of the enemy as frequently as possible.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 25 août 2012 - 07:54 .

[disappearingone11]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

Not a bad idea either, but I like BS for when I'm doing Hack Objectives

It is has its uses, but unless I'm abusing the "kill through walls" strategy (which I prefer not to), then I could do without it. It really doesn't have a place in melee combat on harder difficulties, and that's what I'm trying to make him viable for.

I don't think it's suppose to be used in melee range. It's effectively, a ranged Nova, I think it should be treated as such.

It's not meant for close range, but in order to make it properly complement charge, it's difficult to use in a practical manner otherwise. You can employ an engage/retreat strategy (as we all do to an extent), but that creates problems with using short melee, which supplies the bulk of the DR you're relying on to survive close combat in the first place. So it's a bit of a catch 22. If it's only useful at range, its value goes down considerably.

I prefer the shield upgrade since it's what I fight against the most.

Either is useful, it just depends on who you're fighting. I generally prefer the armor bonus because it's more useful against heavies, and that's important if I'm not pouring points into BS.

I disagree based on what I said earlier: it's a ranged Nova, you shouldn't use it in melee range. It should have DR, yes, but not invincibility frames.

I'm not making an argument for invincibility frames at all--in fact I'd like to see them removed from the novaguard even though it would probably break him (compensate him in other ways, like DR). What I'm saying is that the ranged nova comparison doesn't quite work imo, and the lack of invincibility frames is a big reason why.

[disappearingone11]

atum wrote...

Been meaning to reply to this but I didn't 100% understand what you are saying.  I'm guessing English isn't your first language, but my typos are terrible too -- I'm not criticizing, but I was confused about what you were trying to say.


So to make it more simple:  You can't have everything.

I'm 100% OK with Vanguards getting a small bump to weapon synergy.  However, I dont think they should have the weapon damage of soldiers and infiltrators simply because Biotic Charge is an amazing ability.  I dont think they need any shotgun weight buffs either. (Can't a Vanguard get 200% or nearly 200% with a Piranha?).

I agree they need a secondary way to deal damage (via powers or weapons) but there needs to be a drawback somewhere.  The "high risk" of being close to an enemy isn't a very big drawback*.  It's also already somewhat balanced by shields replenshing and the high mobility of Vanguards (the most mobile class in general).

So I think that it's unreasonable to ask for ALL of the following:

- High mobility
- Shields replenshed
- High durability (such as damage reduction)
- Low cooldowns
- High damage
- Ability to stagger


Something has to be a drawback.  Soldiers have high damage and good durability but bad mobility.

If these were options, where Vanguards could pick between durability and damage (or some other combo), that would make sense.  Just as Half Blast vs Full Blast makes sense.  Just as the N7 Shadow has to decide between damage and Shield replenishment.

If you want the option of the same high damage of the Adept and Soldier, then you should lose some durability or mobility.  As a combo of the pure classes, it's not logical that you do as well as both of the pure classes with their main skill.

Vanguards are doing much better since the buff.  I find it a bit suprising to hear people complain about them.  And I have been playing a Novaguard and Asariguard a fair amount since the changes. 

* I also think Archie has expressed the correct issue still plaguing Vanguards: staggers and stuns.  But that plagues a lot of classes.

I agree with you on few points, especially the list of things you consider unreasonable to ask for. Many of these issues are interrelated, anyway: durability and short cd's relate specifically to BC, which only needs a short cd because it has to be used frequently in order to compensate for a lack of durability (barrier restoration and staggering are connected to this as well). Increase durability, and the need for a short cd diminishes. Better or longer lasting weapon damage synergy would have a similar effect because more effective synergy means less charging to maintain, and it helps the durability issue as well because you could kill enemies faster, thus lessening your exposure. The point is that if they make the right tweaks, they can solve numerous problems with only a few changes.

That said, there would still be drawbacks, and there should be. High risk/high reward entails them: we're not asking for vanguards to be invincible killing machines. The problem is that the risk and reward are out of balance, even with the buffs, and primarily because most vanguards still have the durability of adepts. Should they be as tough as soldiers? No. Should they be tougher than adepts? Yes. We're searching for middle ground. All classes have problems, and all of the hybrid classes are not well-balanced. For instance I have no clue why they made sentinels--hybrid tech/biotics--into tanks. It makes no sense and I do have a problem with it. The reason we don't hear many sentinel fans complain is that it's a boon to them, not a bane to their existence. Vanguards complain because our lack of proper balance either gets us killed or forces us to play the vanguard as if he/she is something else. The BC buffs help, I'm not denying that at all. But did they fix this fundamental design flaw? Not even close.

Modifié par disappearingone11, 26 août 2012 - 03:14 .

[Pedro Costa]

disappearingone11 wrote...
It is has its uses, but unless I'm abusing the "kill through walls" strategy (which I prefer not to), then I could do without it. It really doesn't have a place in melee combat on harder difficulties, and that's what I'm trying to make him viable for.

Not going to take any vanguard into platinum anyway, not until I get good at gold and see some DR buff, so I just try to make it useful for silver/gold

It's not meant for close range, but in order to make it properly complement charge, it's difficult to use in a practical manner otherwise. You can employ an engage/retreat strategy (as we all do to an extent), but that creates problems with using short melee, which supplies the bulk of the DR you're relying on to survive close combat in the first place. So it's a bit of a catch 22. If it's only useful at range, its value goes down considerably.

I agree, it doesn't complement Charge, but Charge complements it.
You have a very good range with PD, you use it, empty your barrier, charge, barrier's back, proceed to melee and either find cover or rinse and repeat.
I'd have prefered PD if it was "chargeable" (ie. if you hold the PD key for a bit, like with the acolyte and in return it does full damage and expends all your barrier at once, if you just click it, it works the way it does now)

Either is useful, it just depends on who you're fighting. I generally prefer the armor bonus because it's more useful against heavies, and that's important if I'm not pouring points into BS.

I understand your point, just saying why I use Shield =P

What I'm saying is that the ranged nova comparison doesn't quite work imo, and the lack of invincibility frames is a big reason why.

Point taken.

[MP-Ryan]

DarkLord_PT wrote...
Not going to take any vanguard into platinum anyway, not until I get good at gold and see some DR buff, so I just try to make it useful for silver/gold

If you have a kroguard, a scorpion (or high-level Talon), and some decent gear, you can take a Vanguard to Platinum.  It's not bad with a Piranha either, but that requires you to have one =)  A competent team is mandatory, but the kroguard is easily platinum-viable.

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 26 août 2012 - 03:09 .

[Biotic Wolf]

a lot of good vanguard talk going on here but i'm here to praise the phase disrupter, a very underrated power.

it trashes mobs and can stagger phantoms, atlases (plural?), primes, pretty much anything except banshees.

a group of phantoms? PD for staggers, charge in, roll out (if needed), PD, charge(if needed), poof they're gone (warning: this isn't 100% full proof but it IS effective as long as you know you can get out of there safely. so don't BC a phantom halfway across the map).

PD detonates tech bursts, cryo/fire explosions, but not BE cause its a combat power.

Biotic slash? its situational but i only upped it to rank 3. heck i think i don't need any points in it.

[RamsenC]

Biotic Wolf wrote...

a lot of good vanguard talk going on here but i'm here to praise the phase disrupter, a very underrated power.

it trashes mobs and can stagger phantoms, atlases (plural?), primes, pretty much anything except banshees.

a group of phantoms? PD for staggers, charge in, roll out (if needed), PD, charge(if needed), poof they're gone (warning: this isn't 100% full proof but it IS effective as long as you know you can get out of there safely. so don't BC a phantom halfway across the map).

PD detonates tech bursts, cryo/fire explosions, but not BE cause its a combat power.

Biotic slash? its situational but i only upped it to rank 3. heck i think i don't need any points in it.

I agree, PD Vanguard is the best Vanguard. Especially if you use shield recharge gear/comsumables. I put no points into Biotic Slash as I find it to be awful and against the Vanguard way. I also don't do the melee DR thing as it's inefficient at actually killing enemies. Too bad I can't record on the 360 so I could actually show how insane it is. 

Against Cerb/Geth no other Vanguard compares. For Reapers I would go Drellguard with biotic support.

disappearingone11 wrote...

My problem with PD is that it's great to use before engaging, but once in melee range, using it is really dangerous, and I can rarely get 3 blasts off before my barriers go down from damage alone. But on the plus side, it's a heck of banshee/brute killer.

 

It's actually really dangerous to not use PD in melee range. Charge > Shotgun > PD to restagger everything around you > Charge. With radius on PD you can essentially focus on one enemy at a time while keeping everything within 7m stunlocked. If you fire it at the ground the AoE seems to go off without actually hitting a target. With shield recharge gear you can spam it as fast as possible, which is great on most objective waves. You can also fight large groups of Phantoms easily. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 26 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[Shampoohorn]

doublepost.  see below.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 26 août 2012 - 04:12 .

[Shampoohorn]

[quote]Achire wrote...
[quote]Achire wrote...
snip...
That's my Vanguard wishlist. I don't think it would break the game on Silver. Any more than I can already break the game on Silver in any case

Again, thanks for listening and giving Vanguards the buffs we just got.
- Achire[/quote]

This is what I sent to Fagnan.

[quote]Eric Fagnan wrote...

Thanks for the suggestions. I can't promise anything but you have some interesting ideas.[/quote]

And this is what he replied.
[/quote]
[/quote]
For what it's worth, Eric et.al do seem to listen to suggestions.  A number of things we've proposed in the Balance All Things discussion group have been incorporated verbatim into the weekly balance changes.

...

On thing that I've fantasized about for vanguards -- particularly the drell vanguard -- is to give their light melee attacks a vampiric effect where they replenish some small amount of barrier (25 points, 5%, whatever).  This would help them remain in close proximity to their targets, aiding their playstyle. There are numerous examples in the recent DLC's of class features with similar properties like the Fury's AF or dodge.  Clearly would require a patch, or be part of a new DLC character -- but I can still dream.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 26 août 2012 - 04:13 .

[Pedro Costa]

MP-Ryan wrote...
If you have a kroguard, a scorpion (or high-level Talon), and some decent gear, you can take a Vanguard to Platinum.  It's not bad with a Piranha either, but that requires you to have one =)  A competent team is mandatory, but the kroguard is easily platinum-viable.

Kroguard doesn't count. =P

RamsenC, can you share your Slayer build? You got me interested.

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 26 août 2012 - 05:39 .

[MP-Ryan]

It occurred to me today, and I figured I'd share in case anyone else is as clueless as I was, that I've found a pretty reliable list of things that will prevent charge from triggering on an enemy in plain sight:

1. You have your back/blindside (left side) against a full-size wall. Probably the most reliably-reproducible instance of charge failing to trigger. Take a step forward, and it will go... probably. Suddenly a lot of my frustration-inducing "I would be alive but for flaky charge!" deaths make much more sense.

2. You were staggered in the middle of a melee or while firing an automatic weapon. This happens even to the kroguard (I've noticed it with both Piranha and Reegar). The Geth Doom Elbows are notorious for this. Fire one shot or hit the reload key and it will probably trigger. Of course, in the time it takes to realize this is the problem and fire or hit said key, you've probably died, but at least we know why =)

3. There's a threshold between you and the enemy. As with singleplayer, there are some doorways that vanguards adamantly refuse to charge across despite the enemy standing there looking straight at you with a weapon in hand and dumb look on their face. Find cover fast, or target an enemy further behind them. For some odd reason, farther distances across the same threshold work just fine.

4. You were moving and firing a weapon of any type. This one happens the least often, but it seems to require either death (easy, since that's what usually happens), heavy melee (if kroguard), or movement in a direction other than the one you were moving in when charge refused to trigger.

All of these are heavily related to the vanguard glitch off-host, since it seems that one of any of the above 4 are always responsible for my death when charge fires after dying and unsyncs me from the host.

Don't know if I was the only clueless one, but I figured I'd share in case there are some other vanguard players out there tearing their hair out too.

[MP-Ryan]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...
If you have a kroguard, a scorpion (or high-level Talon), and some decent gear, you can take a Vanguard to Platinum.  It's not bad with a Piranha either, but that requires you to have one =)  A competent team is mandatory, but the kroguard is easily platinum-viable.

Kroguard doesn't count. =P

Nonsense, kroguard is the only *actual* vanguard in Mass Effect 3.  All the rest are flying adepts.  You know this =)

[Pedro Costa]

I certainly didn't realize it, thanks.

MP-Ryan wrote...
Nonsense, kroguard is the only *actual* vanguard in Mass Effect 3.  All the rest are flying adepts.  You know this =)

And that is precisely why it doesn't count when I'm talking about the rest of the lot =P

Modifié par DarkLord_PT, 26 août 2012 - 05:43 .

[Quething]

Shampoohorn wrote...

On thing that I've fantasized about for vanguards -- particularly the drell vanguard -- is to give their light melee attacks a vampiric effect where they replenish some small amount of barrier (25 points, 5%, whatever).

Interesting idea. I can see it as a fun mechanic, but I'm afraid I'm one of those lore snobs and vampiric biotics have always made me cringe. 

Patch-wise though I still believe the three biggest, quickest, easiest quality of life issues in the game are to a) give turians their roll back, give a base weapon damage boost to Charge, and c) add a flat bonus damage-per-bullet to all weapons vs shield/barrier. So many problems you'd solve with just those three things.

Did a bit more fooling around, and promoted vanguard for the event to try out the more flexible build options we've got now. How do you guys build your asariguards, though? I've done the full-weapon-damage stasis sniper and the power damage Lift nades nuker and even tried a pseudo-Nova melee build, and none of them really seemed to work for me.

Modifié par Quething, 26 août 2012 - 05:49 .

[MP-Ryan]

Quething wrote...
How do you guys build your asariguards, though?

I don't.  She's not a vanguard, she's an adept in disguise that somehow got ahold of biotic charge when BioWare wasn't looking.

To be less ornery, when I do have her specced (due to recent promotion, all I've respecced is novaguard and kroguard for the moment) I tend to run 6/6/3/5/6 with bubble stasis and full barrier fitness, then add a suitably low-weight weapon (Carnifex is my go-to at the moment for her).

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 26 août 2012 - 05:53 .

[Quething]

MP-Ryan wrote...

All of these are heavily related to the vanguard glitch off-host, since it seems that one of any of the above 4 are always responsible for my death when charge fires after dying and unsyncs me from the host.

If you mean caused by not hosting, those are mostly the same issues that caused the "Can't get a lock!" of doom in SP in 2. Stepping forward off a wall especially, though the threshold issue was a massive killer in a few places too (Zaeed's loyalty after the factory cutscene slaughtered me three times in a row before I figured out that bug), so I assume they're engine issues, not lag issues. They'll certainly catch you up in an MP game you're hosting yourself, as well. I always host, and I've spent a lot of time on Hydra running to the landing pad because you can't charge there from that corner opposite the tower room.

We'd probably get the moving platform glitch too, if there were any mobile environments in ME3. (Add that to my new map wishlist, along with Haestrom- and Therum- style environmental hazards and flashlight areas.)

[Dragon_Effect 15511]

I tend to not charge Banshees until they stop jumping and just shoot them with my N7 Hurricane. If you want to avoid insta kill. Just walk backwards while using nova. If you have your nova built for range you should be able to hit the target e.g Phantom without getting insta killed.

[tonnactus]

Quething wrote...
 How do you guys build your asariguards, though?

66653. Grenade Gear 5. Go to a spawnpoint. Use stasis(so they arent able to evade),throw the grenades and kill all "foot enemies".