851 réponses à ce sujet

[Achire]

Not really true on Platinum.

[Elotana]

Impactmoon wrote...

Novaguard spec-ed right with 200% cooldown is almost invincible if you do it right.

Tell us more about Novaguard on Platinum, guy with a Mattock IV

[thegamefreek78648]

Actually, he isn't far off. Just throw in some skill and luck

[Achire]

And yet there was a Kroguard Platinum solo the day the Earth DLC was released but there still isn't a Novaguard one. I wonder why that might be...

[Elotana]

I know that Bioware is mostly a touchy-feely RPG community that likes to give everyone pizzas and participation trophies, and this is might hurt some people's feeeeeeeeelings, but people who don't have their rare guns maxed don't play enough Gold/Platinum to have a good feel for game balance on those levels and need to shut up and stop polluting this thread with "hurhur you just don't know how to play novaguard with SKILL i get 80k on silver every time!"

I'm not saying that having those guns makes your ideas good, since there are some people who never leave Firebase White. And I'm not saying that better guns = more skilled player, there's obviously variation. But that's my rule of thumb as far as people knowing their ****.

Modifié par Elotana, 01 septembre 2012 - 02:07 .

[thegamefreek78648]

Rrrraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. I have more rare guns than you so I must be a better player and better looking! Behold my epeen!

I've ben playing sing the game went live and ibe done my share of gold runs, some with the good ol novaguard, prenerf, and when I did it right I slaughtered, when I didn't I got slaughtered. Did it right more often than wrong at that.

I've also seen more than one person who had great guns who sucked salty donky balls, and I don't mean the candy one's

[MP-Ryan]

Elotana wrote...

I know that Bioware is mostly a touchy-feely RPG community that likes to give everyone pizzas and participation trophies, and this is might hurt some people's feeeeeeeeelings, but people who don't have their rare guns maxed don't play enough Gold/Platinum to have a good feel for game balance on those levels and need to shut up and stop polluting this thread with "hurhur you just don't know how to play novaguard with SKILL i get 80k on silver every time!"

I'm not saying that having those guns makes your ideas good, since there are some people who never leave Firebase White. And I'm not saying that better guns = more skilled player, there's obviously variation. But that's my rule of thumb as far as people knowing their ****.

Not entirely true.  My rares aren't maxed but I play enough Vanguard to know the issues.

The real problem is people talking out of their rectum.  Unless these people can show how they conquer the issues we've all brought up, they really need to read the thread before posting.  I know, novel idea...

[Elotana]

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

Rrrraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. I have more rare guns than you so I must be a better player and better looking! Behold my epeen!

I've ben playing sing the game went live and ibe done my share of gold runs, some with the good ol novaguard, prenerf, and when I did it right I slaughtered, when I didn't I got slaughtered. Did it right more often than wrong at that.

I've also seen more than one person who had great guns who sucked salty donky balls, and I don't mean the candy one's

Neither of those things are inconsistent with what I posted, you need to read more closely.

And waltzing into a thread where several posters have gold solos linked in their signatures and saying "meh, Vanguard's fine IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY" is bragging too, it's just indirect (and also stupid since none of them can back it up).

[Pedro Costa]

MP-Ryan wrote...
Not entirely true.  My rares aren't maxed but I play enough Vanguard to know the issues.

The real problem is people talking out of their rectum.  Unless these people can show how they conquer the issues we've all brought up, they really need to read the thread before posting.  I know, novel idea...

I am in the same position. My rares aren't anything to write home about, but ~80% of the games I play are as a Vanguard.

[Destructo-Bot]

I had a Vorcha teammate trying to "help" me tonight. He would run up and use the flamer on whatever group I was engaging. Unfortunately you can't SEE ANYTHING through the giant wall of flame so every time he used that ability I was fighting blind. Made for an interesting match.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:11 .

[hostaman]

I'm loving the Asari Vanguard, but I must agree with the OP.

Charge is only any use on lower levels as it pitches you right into the frame with pretty low shields, but Stassis is great for taking out most enemies, especially nemesis and Phantoms, although when you get a stack of them in gold, you don't last long without good team mates.

I think the Krogan is the only true Vanguard.

[hostaman]

Elotana wrote...

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

Rrrraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. I have more rare guns than you so I must be a better player and better looking! Behold my epeen!

I've ben playing sing the game went live and ibe done my share of gold runs, some with the good ol novaguard, prenerf, and when I did it right I slaughtered, when I didn't I got slaughtered. Did it right more often than wrong at that.

I've also seen more than one person who had great guns who sucked salty donky balls, and I don't mean the candy one's

Neither of those things are inconsistent with what I posted, you need to read more closely.

And waltzing into a thread where several posters have gold solos linked in their signatures and saying "meh, Vanguard's fine IF YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY" is bragging too, it's just indirect (and also stupid since none of them can back it up).

There's always a Troll messing up a perfectly reasonable thread.

I'm a distinctly average player, and I think that's great.  I'm British - we crave disappointment, and celebrate failure, so I'm doing really well :happy:

Hey I lasted to Wave 8 on gold with my Asari Vanguard - A new PB for me then !

Modifié par hostaman, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:49 .

[Pedro Costa]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

I had a Vorcha teammate trying to "help" me tonight. He would run up and use the flamer on whatever group I was engaging. Unfortunately you can't SEE ANYTHING through the giant wall of flame so every time he used that ability I was fighting blind. Made for an interesting match.

Haha, what I hate the most is when your teammate drops your next target and you can't find anything else to charge at and then die.

[Achire]

I don't think Vorcha enjoy playing with Novaguards that much either, seeing as they need to kill mooks to keep the Bloodlust up.

[Quething]

Yeah, Bloodlust is an interesting idea but not well thought through. Krogan don't rely on rage as heavily (the kroguard obviously doesn't at all, because he can't) so I can sort of see why they thought "hey, more of that mechanic could be good" but... yeah. classes that rely on your teammates not screwing you over, even accidentally, are just as bad a form of game design in horde mode multiplayer as classes that rely on your teammates going out of their way to help you (look how I brought that around to the thread topic like that).

In other news, I finally unlocked the Typhoon, and I gave Silver a whirl with a drellguard just to test it out. I didn't actually do anything particularly vanguard-y but man that was hilarious fun. Although it's interesting playing a ramp-up weapon with Charge specced for weapon damage; on the one hand you feel like you're compensating for the slow start and it's not as punishing to have to wait for the full DPS to kick in, on the other hand you feel like you're wasting your bonus damage on the crappy ramp-up period instead of doubling its effectiveness on the hot fire.

Not that you can charge that much with a level 1 Typhoon in hand anyway, even with the drellguard's high base capacity. Vanguards really do need either better carry stats or more weapon damage boosters; the buff helped our survivability a lot but it's not fair to ask us to have to unlock a Pirahna just to do an appropriate level of damage.

[disappearingone11]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...
Not entirely true.  My rares aren't maxed but I play enough Vanguard to know the issues.

The real problem is people talking out of their rectum.  Unless these people can show how they conquer the issues we've all brought up, they really need to read the thread before posting.  I know, novel idea...

I am in the same position. My rares aren't anything to write home about, but ~80% of the games I play are as a Vanguard.

I actually have all rare weapons, characters, and most gear maxed, a result of my largely futile pursuit of UR weapons. But I must say that the credits I used to buy all those PSP's were primarily earned by adepts, infiltrators, and engineers. My vanguards earn the least because bronze and silver don't pay well.

[thegamefreek78648]

hostaman wrote...

There's always a Troll messing up a perfectly reasonable thread.

I'm a distinctly average player, and I think that's great.  I'm British - we crave disappointment, and celebrate failure, so I'm doing really well :happy:

Hey I lasted to Wave 8 on gold with my Asari Vanguard - A new PB for me then !

Who?  Me, or the other guy?

Also.  Gratz on your PB.

[thegamefreek78648]

Achire wrote...

I don't think Vorcha enjoy playing with Novaguards that much either, seeing as they need to kill mooks to keep the Bloodlust up.

Little do they know that team kills can also trigger procs, unless I am horrably mistaken.  I could be, but I could swear that ive had it trigger off of team mate kills

[disappearingone11]

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

Achire wrote...

I don't think Vorcha enjoy playing with Novaguards that much either, seeing as they need to kill mooks to keep the Bloodlust up.

Little do they know that team kills can also trigger procs, unless I am horrably mistaken.  I could be, but I could swear that ive had it trigger off of team mate kills

The Vorcha has to be credited with the kill for it to contribute to bloodlust. Assists don't count (barring glitches, anyway).

[hostaman]

thegamefreek78648 wrote...

hostaman wrote...

There's always a Troll messing up a perfectly reasonable thread.

I'm a distinctly average player, and I think that's great.  I'm British - we crave disappointment, and celebrate failure, so I'm doing really well :happy:

Hey I lasted to Wave 8 on gold with my Asari Vanguard - A new PB for me then !

Who?  Me, or the other guy?

Also.  Gratz on your PB.

Sorry - neither of you. I was just adding my thoughts to the same topic, that some players seem to have enough testosterone for all of us, and destroy totally reasonable discussion threads like this one.

[Quething]

So we've had a while for the buffs to sink in. Minus the 10 N missing on drell and base human, how do people feel about Charge? Is it enough now? Can we do our jobs, or is something still missing? Has anyone on the really high skill tier tried a smashguard or asariguard Plat solo, or is that still a kroguard exclusive domain? Basically: if we get that 10 N is that a /thread and we can all go home, or should we be pushing to start looking at another part of the class?

Modifié par Quething, 03 septembre 2012 - 12:30 .

[Lucrece]

Charge fix upped your offensive, which was an issue for Vanguards. It wasn't the issue holding non kriguards back, however, because what holds back nonkroguards is the class defensive issues.

The base shields and health of the class just don't translate well to Platinum's stagger happy enemy spread and boss units.

Either damage reduction needs to be built in or base shields and health need to go up. Stagger resistance for Vanguard classes baseline would help a LOT, since it's those prime canons and rocket troopers and Guardian staggers that will screw you out of a charge. Charge could also have an innate increased damage to armor to help Vanguards be more useful against boss units in Platinum.

[disappearingone11]

Quething wrote...

So we've had a while for the buffs to sink in. Minus the 10 N missing on drell and base human, how do people feel about Charge? Is it enough now? Can we do our jobs, or is something still missing? Has anyone on the really high skill tier tried a smashguard or asariguard Plat solo, or is that still a kroguard exclusive domain? Basically: if we get that 10 N is that a /thread and we can all go home, or should we be pushing to start looking at another part of the class?

Survivability is still a major issue for gold/platinum. There are a few others such as the one you mentioned, weapon synergy, shotgun encumbrance/cd balancing, etc., but they're all secondary to whether or not we can charge and live to tell about it. And as things currently stand, most vanguards still fall into the "or not" category.

As for whether this problem can be fixed via BC alone or will require adjustments elsewhere, I don't know. I think it could be done by just tweaking BC, but because BW seems intent on balancing vanguards for silver, this solution is...problematic.

Lucrece wrote...

Charge fix upped your offensive, which was an issue for Vanguards. It wasn't the issue holding non kriguards back, however, because what holds back nonkroguards is the class defensive issues.

The base shields and health of the class just don't translate well to Platinum's stagger happy enemy spread and boss units.

Either damage reduction needs to be built in or base shields and health need to go up. Stagger resistance for Vanguard classes baseline would help a LOT, since it's those prime canons and rocket troopers and Guardian staggers that will screw you out of a charge. Charge could also have an innate increased damage to armor to help Vanguards be more useful against boss units in Platinum.

Not sure if adding armor damage to BC would be a good idea or not. I think I would lean more towards increasing weapon synergy and dealing damage with heavy weapons, or in the cases of vanguards who have heavy hitting secondary abilities, utilizing those instead. Bosses aren't really designed for charging (at least repeatedly), and that's understandable (though certainly inconvenient for platinum). The problem for most vanguards is that weapon synergy is poor and they're too dependent on cd's to carry heavy weapons, so those without an effective secondary ability can't deal sufficient damage. Something needs to give here.

I think increasing base health and barriers should be done on principle alone because vanguards are not adepts. But, obviously, this would have gameplay implications as well. The question is how much can be given without overpowering the class, and I don't have an answer for that.

Modifié par disappearingone11, 03 septembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Achire]

Started thinking about writing a Novaguard guide. Is that a terrible idea or not? Do people even read guides?

[RamsenC]

Achire wrote...

Started thinking about writing a Novaguard guide. Is that a terrible idea or not? Do people even read guides?

If you have the time/motivation do it

People who still play Novaguard at this point usually know what they are doing, but it may turn some people onto Vanguards.